nan said:

He's trying to broker a peace deal in Ukraine--a war that is lost and cannot be won.  That's one thing Trump is doing right.  He's trying to save lives there. 

Another thing Trump did right was close down USAID/NED--those were regime change operations pretending to be charities.

I also like RFK,Jr. and Tulsi Gabbard and look forward to what changes they make to corrupt agencies.

--BUT--

I generally don't like Trump, did not vote for him,  and I don't like how he's getting rid of some government agencies such as the Consumer Protection Agency and the Department of Education.  I don't like how he's dumping all these middle class jobs without thought and all the pain that is causing. 

I don't see the value of those tariffs either and his new tax plan seems highly questionable. 

---SO--

I don't see the "betrayal" you are talking about.  I see a president who has some unpopular policies.  I won't be joining your protest because I support some of things Trump is doing, but I wish you well.  I would suggest you focus more specifically on what he is doing that you feel is a betrayal and not just the usual hysteria about Trump being treasonous or crazy.  

I’m not going to get in a debate with you. Suffice it to say that he had no intention to broke a peace agreement. His setup yesterday was to humiliate Zelensky and then ask him to leave.

nan said:

Most people don't understand it because they believe the lies they have been told about this war.  They think the Ukrainians can win.  They think Zelensky is Churchill.  They think Trump talking to the Russians is treason and even that he might be some kind of Russian agent.

None of that is true.  The Ukrainians cannot win this war.  Zelensky is a  used up anti-democratic proxy who let his country be used and destroyed (and who lied his butt off during that meeting).  And Russiagate was a hoax.  Trump (who IS an orange blowhole) wants to make a peace deal with the Russians and end this war which is the best strategy going forward. Showing the ugly side of US foreign policy out in the open may or may not be a good way to go.  

I get how if you don't know what's going on it looked like two mean thugs picking on this cute little green man but we are not children anymore. 

Your comments don't have much to do with American exceptionalism.

The way Zelensky was treated was a very low point in our history.  Regardless of one's stance on how to end the war against Ukraine, Trump's behavior was wrong and unhelpful.

Before someone else does it …

The meeting...OMFG, what an embarrassment for the U.S. What a sick bully. There's no bottom. 

When America invoked (NATO) Article 5 after 9/11, almost whole world showed up — including Ukraine, a country not even in NATO.
&
How quickly the USA forgets.
The only time NATO article 5 was invoked… was to HELP THE USA… yet trump cries poor us… everybody is using us.

RealityForAll said:

It appears 18 USC 202(c) does not define "Members of Congress" as employees for many purposes. See pics beliw.

When it comes to splitting hairs about the defintion of a federal employee, we can count on you to blindly land on Title 18, the criminal code, rather than Title 5, “Government Organization and Employees.” There, the definition of “Member of Congress” falls under Part III, which is titled “Employees.”

mtierney, what are the policies and practices that lead you to support DJT? I'll offer no rebuttal or comment. I just would like to know. 

nan said:

Oh, look!!!!  

RFK Jr. urges people to get vaccinated amid deadly Texas outbreak

Here is Kennedy’s opinion piece:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/robert-f-kennedy-jr-measles-outbreak-call-action-all-us

Here is the urging part:

All parents should consult with their healthcare providers to understand their options to get the MMR vaccine. The decision to vaccinate is a personal one. Vaccines not only protect individual children from measles, but also contribute to community immunity, protecting those who are unable to be vaccinated due to medical reasons.

The cherry on top?: “This will make great television.” You sick piece of siht.

An intriguing analysis has been circulating online regarding the psychological aspects of Zelensky’s meeting with Trump and Vance, conducted using ChatGPT.From this analysis, it becomes evident that we have witnessed a true masterclass in gaslighting, manipulation, and coercion on the part of Trump and his entourage. 

Let’s break down the key points:

1. Blaming the victim for their own situation
Trump explicitly tells Zelensky: “You have allowed yourself to be in a very bad position.” This is classic abuser rhetoric—blaming the victim for their suffering. The implication is that Ukraine itself is responsible for being occupied by Russia and for the deaths of its people.

2. Pressure and coercion into ‘gratitude’
Vance demands that Zelensky say “thank you.” This is an extremely toxic tactic—forcing the victim to express gratitude for the help they desperately need, only to later accuse them of ingratitude if they attempt to assert their rights.

3. Manipulating the concept of ‘peace’
Trump claims that Zelensky is “not ready for peace.” However, what he actually means is Ukraine’s capitulation. This is a classic manipulation technique—substituting the idea of a just peace with the notion of surrender.

4. Refusing to acknowledge the reality of war
Trump repeatedly insists that Zelensky has “no cards to play” and that “without us, you have nothing.” This is yet another abusive tactic—undermining the victim’s efforts by asserting that they are powerless without the mercy of their ‘saviour.’

5. Devaluing the victims of war
“If you get a ceasefire, you must accept it so that bullets stop flying and your people stop dying,” Trump says. Yet, he ignores the fact that a ceasefire without guarantees is merely an opportunity for Russia to regroup and strike again.

6. Dominance tactics
Trump constantly interrupts Zelensky, cutting him off: “No, no, you’ve already said enough,” and “You’re not in a position to dictate to us.” This is deliberate psychological pressure designed to establish a hierarchy in which Zelensky is the subordinate.

7. Forcing capitulation under the guise of ‘diplomacy’
Vance asserts that “the path to peace lies through diplomacy.” This is a classic strategy where the aggressor is given the opportunity to continue their aggression unchallenged.

8. Projection and distortion of reality
Trump declares: “You are playing with the lives of millions of people.” Yet, in reality, it is he who is doing exactly that—shifting responsibility onto Zelensky.

9. Creating the illusion that Ukraine ‘owes’ the US
Yes, the US is assisting Ukraine, but presenting this aid as “you must obey, or you will receive nothing” is not a partnership—it is financial and military coercion.

10. Undermining Ukraine’s resistance
Trump states that “if it weren’t for our weapons, this war would have ended in two weeks.” This is an attempt to erase Ukraine’s achievements and portray its efforts as entirely dependent on US support.

Conclusion
Trump and his team employed the full spectrum of abusive tactics: gaslighting, victim-blaming, coercion into gratitude, and manipulation of the concepts of peace and diplomacy. This was not a negotiation—it was an attempt to force Zelensky into accepting terms beneficial to the US but potentially fatal for Ukraine.