How will the "Wall" Shutdown end?

Formerlyjerseyjack said:
Then, again, Donald says ht gives his money away to charity.... probably the Trump Foundation.

Charity is probably the name of some stripper

basil said:
Pathetic. Can't they put some legislation in place whereby every time the government shuts down, congress and the president also don't get paid, but unlike federal workers they won't get back-pay once the situation is resolved. Or, if that is too hard, just abandon the rule that critical employees still have to show up for work. We"ll see how many shutdowns happen when it also stops security detail of president and congressional leaders, or if the TSA stops working and all airports have to shut down. Very few I predict.

 And what would make you think their salary is the source of their wealth?

Trump tweeted that he's willing to bring US economy to screeching halt if he doesn't get the wall funding.

Theiretical question: isn't working for no pay/withheld pay slavery?

joanne said:
Theiretical question: isn't working for no pay/withheld pay slavery?

Um, no.  But it does raise many other questions.

Slave = person who is legal property of another and is forced to obey them.

yahooyahoo said:

joanne said:
Theiretical question: isn't working for no pay/withheld pay slavery?

Um, no.  But it does raise many other questions.
Slave = person who is legal property of another and is forced to obey them.

 No. It's being compelled to work without pay. It is involuntary servitude.

LOST said:

jamie said:

As we had agreed in our conversation, I will be able to make regular payments in the amount of $_______.  I realize that I will be responsible to pay the remainder of the payments and, when I return to work, I will contact you immediately to work out a plan to take care of the reduced payments.  I will keep in touch with you to keep you informed about my income status and I would like to discuss with you the possibility of trading my services to perform maintenance (e.g. painting, carpentry work) in exchange for partial rent payments.

 Does the landlord to whom that is addressed then forward the letter to his Mortgage holder or his Tax Collector and ask for the same consideration?

While we're at it, the LL can pimp the tenant out directly to the mortgage holder and the tax collector.  Poor tenant can paint their homes and perform landscaping in return for LL taxes and mortgage being reduced. I mean really.  It's the small things like these that have me seeing red. Unbelievable. 

BG9 said:

basil said:
Pathetic. Can't they put some legislation in place whereby every time the government shuts down, congress and the president also don't get paid, but unlike federal workers they won't get back-pay once the situation is resolved. Or, if that is too hard, just abandon the rule that critical employees still have to show up for work. We"ll see how many shutdowns happen when it also stops security detail of president and congressional leaders, or if the TSA stops working and all airports have to shut down. Very few I predict.

 And what would make you think their salary is the source of their wealth?

It is not, which is why the second idea is actually better.

thanks for your answers. We’ve been discussing this at breakfast: the workers can’t withdraw their services, and you can’t pay tax/ demonstrate appropriate exchange of services for accounting purposes.  So we can’t see how this isn’t taking advantage of the workers’ contracts? 

basil said:

BG9 said:

basil said:
Pathetic. Can't they put some legislation in place whereby every time the government shuts down, congress and the president also don't get paid, but unlike federal workers they won't get back-pay once the situation is resolved. Or, if that is too hard, just abandon the rule that critical employees still have to show up for work. We"ll see how many shutdowns happen when it also stops security detail of president and congressional leaders, or if the TSA stops working and all airports have to shut down. Very few I predict.

 And what would make you think their salary is the source of their wealth?

It is not, which is why the second idea is actually better.

We agree then. These shutdowns are not real, they're shutdowns-lite. The ones hurt are the low paid Federal employees - cleaners, etc.

Better call Joshua.  I think he is in Jericho.

Formerlyjerseyjack said:
The last time the Mexicans attacked was at the Alamo. The wall was breached and that didn't work out too well for the leaders of the defense. Maybe we'll get lucky again,

 Santa Anna was bringing up siege guns.  These cannons would have leveled the walls of the Alamo,

which were adobe and built to withstand Indian attacks.

However he wanted complete annihilation of the garrison to serve as an example to the Texicans.

Twenty one days later,  having split his forces ,  he was defeated and captured at San Jacinto.

The best laid plans of mice and dictators........

and yet, the avalanche of junk mail continues.

Robert_Casotto said:
and yet, the avalanche of junk mail continues.

 that would be because the USPS is an independent agency 

BG9 said:

basil said:

BG9 said:

basil said:
Pathetic. Can't they put some legislation in place whereby every time the government shuts down, congress and the president also don't get paid, but unlike federal workers they won't get back-pay once the situation is resolved. Or, if that is too hard, just abandon the rule that critical employees still have to show up for work. We"ll see how many shutdowns happen when it also stops security detail of president and congressional leaders, or if the TSA stops working and all airports have to shut down. Very few I predict.

 And what would make you think their salary is the source of their wealth?

It is not, which is why the second idea is actually better.

We agree then. These shutdowns are not real, they're shutdowns-lite. The ones hurt are the low paid Federal employees - cleaners, etc.

Yes. Which is why this is pathetic. It's just like increasing the debt ceiling. Oh wait, that is not an issue anymore now that we don't have a black guy in the WH anymore.

And again, reduced prison time for the donald and his family should be off the table.

ml1 said:

Robert_Casotto said:
and yet, the avalanche of junk mail continues.

 that would be because the USPS is an independent agency 

 Maybe we can get NASA to deliver Restoration Hardware catalogs.

Robert_Casotto said:

ml1 said:

Robert_Casotto said:
and yet, the avalanche of junk mail continues.

 that would be because the USPS is an independent agency 

 Maybe we can get NASA to deliver Restoration Hardware catalogs.

  why aren't they using drones anyway?? They don't need wages, meal breaks, vacations etc. (Of course the human pilots would, but I'm sure an almost fully automated system would rapidly be developed)

Well, Putin outmaneuvered him, the short fat guy from north korea outmaneuvered him, so I don't see why Pelosi and Schumer would have a hard time outmaneuvering him on this one.

First, quoting myself from the other day on this thread -

South_Mountaineer said:
I'd like to think they give Trump bupkis.  At this point, it's the new House that Trump will have to deal with, and hopefully they'll pass something that re-opens government, includes real border security measures, and makes Trump look like an idiot if he says he doesn't like it.

 Then there's this that came out earlier today -

Joint Statement from Leaders Pelosi and Schumer on Democrats’ Action to End the Trump Shutdown

Washington, D.C. – Speaker-designate Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) released the following statement on Democrats’ legislation to end the Trump Shutdown, consisting of six full-year appropriations bills, which passed the Senate on the floor or in committee with strong bipartisan support, and separately a CR until February 8 for Homeland Security, the same timing that passed the full Senate unanimously:

“While President Trump drags the nation into Week Two of the Trump Shutdown and sits in the White House and tweets, without offering any plan that can pass both chambers of Congress, Democrats are taking action to lead our country out of this mess.  This legislation reopens government services, ensures workers get the paychecks they’ve earned and restores certainty to the lives of the American people.

“The President is using the government shutdown to try to force an expensive and ineffective wall upon the American people, but Democrats have offered two bills which separate the arguments over the wall from the government shutdown.  The first bill would reopen all government agencies except for the Department of Homeland Security – not taking a position on the President’s wall.  It would simply continue the funding levels and language that both parties have already supported.  The second bill would extend the Department of Homeland Security’s funding through February 8th, which Republicans already supported in recent weeks.

“If Leader McConnell and Senate Republicans refuse to support the first bill, then they are complicit with President Trump in continuing the Trump shutdown and in holding the health and safety of the American people and workers’ paychecks hostage over the wall.

“It would be the height of irresponsibility and political cynicism for Senate Republicans to now reject the same legislation they have already supported.  

https://www.democraticleader.gov/newsroom/123118/

Check and Mate, I believe.

check and mate assume that they are facing a logical opponent.

FilmCarp said:
check and mate assume that they are facing a logical opponent.

True.  But only the hardcore Trumpers aren't going to see clearly that the shutdown would then belong exclusively to Trump and McConnell.

Unlike McConnell, I don't think Trump really does political calculus.  He has a hateful populist shtick that found fertile ground and propelled him into the White House in 2016.  I think his act is starting to wear people out.   While Democrats still need to plan their strategy carefully and focus on delivering things to average Americans, I think we will see more of a cornered rat version of Trump over the next two years and then he will go down in defeat.  

tjohn said:
Unlike McConnell, I don't think Trump really does political calculus.  He has a hateful populist shtick that found fertile ground and propelled him into the White House in 2016.  I think his act is starting to wear people out.   While Democrats still need to plan their strategy carefully and focus on delivering things to average Americans, I think we will see more of a cornered rat version of Trump over the next two years and then he will go down in defeat.  

 A New Year's wish.

FilmCarp said:
check and mate assume that they are facing a logical opponent.

 It also assumes that there are rules.

LOST said:

tjohn said:
Unlike McConnell, I don't think Trump really does political calculus.  He has a hateful populist shtick that found fertile ground and propelled him into the White House in 2016.  I think his act is starting to wear people out.   While Democrats still need to plan their strategy carefully and focus on delivering things to average Americans, I think we will see more of a cornered rat version of Trump over the next two years and then he will go down in defeat.  

 A New Year's wish.

FilmCarp said:
check and mate assume that they are facing a logical opponent.

 It also assumes that there are rules.

 True, Trump's likely response to checkmate is to overturn the board and scatter the pieces. 

There was never a Chess game to begin with. Fake News!

LOST said:
There was never a Chess game to begin with. Fake News!

 Was he playing backgammon instead??

oh - apparently the rules of golf have changed, as of 1st January. Has anybody updated Mr Trump?   

This has become, more so than most of his chaos, a matter of ego gratification for he who walks among the corn.  The matter is so simple that  line drawings can explain the thing at  his level.

His xenophobic tendencies are driving him and he really has only Twitter and his two syllable words,  repeated over and over as a means of communication.  I think he views this thing as the crowning achievement of his administration.

It is slipping away and he is at a loss to find a solution to satisfy him.

With so little accomplished after two years of Republican domination..........with Mueller closing in...

I am looking forward to a very satisfying Spring 2019.

Trump said today that he will only accept a deal that has $2.5 billion for the wall and not a penny less! That's down from his "$5 billion and not a penny less" last week. I think he is managing expectations with his base.

basil said:
Trump said today that he will only accept a deal that has $2.5 billion for the wall and not a penny less! That's down from his "$5 billion and not a penny less" last week. I think he is managing expectations with his base.

the art of the deal.