South Orange Losing Population?

And thus Morley proves the point that SO could give a damn about its older residents.

And MikeScot, other towns HAVE figured it out. You know not about that which you speak. MANY towns have 55+ developments which have homes, layouts and features suited to an aging population. There are even some which are close to transportation to NYC, offer a sense of community, have security, and are close to shopping. SO could have had that if it thought more about its aging population. Instead, they are happy to have them move out.

We've been thinking a lot about our aging population. Two years ago when I joined the Board of Trustees, I jump started a senior citizens advisory committee which went from virtually no members to now being the largest group in town. For the short term, we focused on transportation (which we did) and added programming. South Orange Seniors (SOS) was also founded and they've been doing an incredible job. Aging In Place policies are difficult and don't happen overnight but I absolutely am committed to them. I've spoken to some 55+ developers in the state and will continue pursuing that outreach because there's a massive void in this category. Most developers who are interested in South Orange are capitalizing on TOD opportunities near our train station because that's where the market is and will continue to be for quite some time. Land aggregation in North Jersey is very difficult and cost prohibitive especially when you're trying to assemble parcels for low density housing such as age-restricted town homes that are desirable for seniors (no maintenance, amenities on first floor with master bedroom, guests bedrooms on the second floor, etc.) One of the items in our platform was a shared Division of Senior Citizens with Maplewood. There's plenty of opportunity for coordination with our sister town, particularly as it relates to senior services. I will certainly keep you posted on whether this gets traction or not. I hope it does.

And BTW - the misstatements made in the original TAP article were adjusted because I contacted the editor and challenged what I perceived were misstatements that could not be substantiated with any data or facts and they could not. The editors recognized this, apologized, and made the edits.

Sheena

Jayjay - having a 55+ development does NOT mean affordable (the main reason given for our aging population moving out of state) and in fact most of those homes in this area are very expensive. They mean less maintenance, and possibly offering some convenient services, but many 55+ couples are moving into the apartments in S. Orange - giving the downtown a mix of seniors, 55+ adults, young couples, and probably some divorced parents.

Did I mention affordability or moving out of state? I don't think so. Its true that affordability of NJ in general is an issue for many seniors coupled with the income tax and other taxes on private pensions etc. But for those who can afford to stay, but for whom the big house is not the thing any more, there are no options in town other than apts to live in. And with all due respect, living in an apartment house with divorcees or young couples really doesn't cut it. Its about security, and community with people in the same stage of life. Its about still having your own garage, not a parking deck. Once you reach a certain age, (somewhere between retirement and assisted living), you'll get it.

Sheena, I know that you have been sensitive to this issue and I applaud you for it. It was never an issue for any other VP or trustee in my memory. I hope you can do something as not being able to retire in place (i.e. the town you have lived in for most years) is disruptive at a time of life you are least able to deal with disruption. We were lucky as we found our community in the next county over. Its still starting over, however, in just about every aspect.

I guess you need to re-read your first post in this thread - where you say seniors can't afford to stay in a house. Some of those 55+ homes are more expensive and have very high taxes.

We downsized already to a very nice apartment. There are other couples in the building and I don't mind having young couples as well. Makes for a nice mix. Let me know if you would like to come to the next party the building has and see how nice it can be.

What about The Mews? What about the Village Green condos? What's wrong with those? What's wrong with The Avenue (other than the fact that it has a parking deck, not garages)? Why is a garage even necessary if you're downsizing? And what is so wrong with living in a building with a mix of people of different ages? Why the strong urge to segregate? I have to point out that in a town like South Orange, whose primary selling point is easy access to train service to New York City, it's obvious and logical that new residential development is going to be skewed toward younger non-retirees. I sure don't plan on living here after I'm retired. Not because I don't like the place, but because I know it just won't make sense any more.

Neither of those developments are built with aging in mind, i.e. bedrooms on the first floor, ramps instead of stairs, wider doors, etc. 55+ developments usually have those things. And having a garage to go right into your house, without steps, is important as well.

Realistically, jayjay, there are options here. For example, one of my favorite seniors just moved into The Newstead, which has valet parking, one story layouts, elevators, no steps to worry about, and what seems to be a mostly senior population. I think a good bit of what is being built is senior friendly -- Gaslight is an elevator building with covered parking, for example.

Developers aren't choosing to build age-restricted communities here, perhaps because we really don't have the sort of large tracts available to build big complexes with clubhouses, etc. Our train station proximity may not make that sort of housing the most valuable use of the land.

Your desire to live in a community where everyone is your own age is one I simply don't get, and don't feel a need to drive local policy to try to create in South Orange. We need more senior-friendly housing, obviously, at multiple price-points, but I'm less convinced about the need (or desire) for age-restricted housing.

I'm over 55 andI much prefer to live in a multi-generational neighborhood.

Fwiw, age-restricted housing is often used as a NIMBY tool, particularly when it comes to affordable housing. Ie, we're okay with an income restricted property as long as it's an age restricted property.

Susan - Only one apartment layout in the Newstead has in-unit washers. And the Gaslight is not built for seniors either. At our age, the last thing we want to do is drag laundry down to a laundry room or to a laundromat.

Sac - i don't know where you live, but our neighborhood was increasingly turning over to young families, and we began to feel increasingly alone. There was very little socialization as we had so little in common. So while it sounds great to live in a age-diverse neighborhood, the reality is that socialization is more likely among people of your own age. And as you age, socialization is extremely important.

SteveIvan - Frankly, I don't know what you mean. 55+ communities are given permission to build by towns because they do not add to the school burden. As for income restriction, our new community still has Mt. Laurel units as well.

I do recognize the validity of many of jayjay's points. I'm truly sorry that we don't have the type of housing stock in SO/Ma to meet those needs. I'm just skeptical that anyone could ever make a strong enough case for creating it here. The increasingly prevailing profile of these towns' population is younger families with at least one working parent who is likely to commute into the city. It's the result of Midtown Direct.

I did a quick and dirty Google search for "55 and over communities in NJ." I came up with a website called www.55places.com. According to this site, there are 205 "active adult retirement communities" in New Jersey. The site divides the state into Southern, Central, and Northern regions. In the Southern region there are 111 communities; in the Central region there are 81; and in the Northern region there are a grand total of 13 communities. The three top counties are Ocean (58), Monmouth (30), and Middlesex (24). Up in the Northern region, Morris has 5, Passaic has 4, and Bergen and Essex each have 2 communities.

I kind of think those numbers speak for themselves, when you consider factors like availability of land and proximity to the city and train service...

bluepool said:
I do recognize the validity of many of jayjay's points. I'm truly sorry that we don't have the type of housing stock in SO/Ma to meet those needs. I'm just skeptical that anyone could ever make a strong enough case for creating it here. The increasingly prevailing profile of these towns' population is younger families with at least one working parent who is likely to commute into the city. It's the result of Midtown Direct.

My thoughts exactally.

Bluepool - You are correct. There is very little to choose from if you want to stay reasonably close to where you once lived. We had no interest in moving far from NYC, public transit options, and doctors and dentists we have used for a lifetime. So central and southern NJ counties had no appeal for us. We are leading edge baby boomers. This dilemma will grow worse in coming years, and few towns are prepared for it with their housing stock.

What's going to happen to me at 55? That's only 12 years away and I have so much more life to live. And my kid will only be 14.

Time to get my affairs in order, I guess.

SoOrLord and I are over 55 and we don't envision ever living in a 55+ community. We DO envision downsizing to a smaller home with a first floor bedroom - very likely closer to 3 of our grandchildren.

jayjay said:
Susan - Only one apartment layout in the Newstead has in-unit washers. And the Gaslight is not built for seniors either. At our age, the last thing we want to do is drag laundry down to a laundry room or to a laundromat.
Sac - i don't know where you live, but our neighborhood was increasingly turning over to young families, and we began to feel increasingly alone. There was very little socialization as we had so little in common. So while it sounds great to live in a age-diverse neighborhood, the reality is that socialization is more likely among people of your own age. And as you age, socialization is extremely important.
SteveIvan - Frankly, I don't know what you mean. 55+ communities are given permission to build by towns because they do not add to the school burden. As for income restriction, our new community still has Mt. Laurel units as well.

OMG jayjay...

1. You don't have kids in the house, so you could have done what others in condos do. You get one of the smaller sized (perhaps stackable) washer dryer units installed in your condo. The Newstead units have huge closets, so it isn't a stretch to do so as a homeowner.

2. I think many people find socialization through the organizations they belong to, rather than relying only on neighbors. They belong to churches, schools and fraternal organizations that continue to provide community.

You chose what you wanted, and chose modern 55+ community amenities over continued South Orange residence. That's fine, but not a reason to give in to the Baby Boomer habit of whining about everything in the world that isn't designed exactly for you.

I'm still a decade or so away from any discussions of downsizing, but I see a number of options that would let us stay in South Orange in a lower-maintenance, few/no-stairs environment, and see real estate trends likely to keep adding more options, although perhaps likely not the sort of large, 55+ community that you chose.

I don't think we can/should insist that developers add the specific amenities you wanted to their proposals, although I think the needs of seniors can be a discussion item with every large-property developer.

Thank you Susan for stating it so well!

Jay jay is wrong. While there is only one age restricted housing development in South Orange ( on Vose) are a lot of housing options for seniors in South Orange. They may not have fit his needs, but they do exist.

The Newstead and the Top are very attractive to seniors who can afford to live there. I have joked that the average age of residents of The Newstead is 75. The Newstead apartments are spacious. The DO have room for stackable laundry. They have concierge services and valet parking which is also very attractive to seniors. While The Newstead and The Top are condominiums, The Gaslight is a rental. For those downsizing who prefer to stay in a house, every year there is a good selection of ranches in Newstead that come on the market. Right now there are 6 houses for sale in South Orange with a master on the first floor. There are also, the Wyoming Gate townhouses and some units in The Manors have first floor master bedrooms and are also attractive to seniors.

For those who are retired and no longer need the train, there is a wide selection of more affordable right next door in West Orange.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the jayjay pile-on going on here.

He has taken the time to explain why he's not staying in South Orange, why it was a difficult decision, and why the available options didn't work *for him and his wife*. You can disagree with his assessments, but in the end, it's his own damn decision.

Jayjay, best of luck in your new community, and I hope you'll find many new friends there.

My husband and I are both over 70. We have no desire to downsize from the house in which we have been happy for years, and in which our children were raised. We have made some changes to our house to adapt to our physical limitations, and this is where we intend to stay. One son and his family live nearby, and the other son lives in NY. We have no desire to socialize with people in our age group any more than we already do, and we are not interested in any "activities" directed at people of our age. We are introverted people, with our own interests, and we have no desire or need to change our residence.

evandepol said:
I'm sorry, but I don't understand the jayjay pile-on going on here.
He has taken the time to explain why he's not staying in South Orange, why it was a difficult decision, and why the available options didn't work *for him and his wife*. You can disagree with his assessments, but in the end, it's his own damn decision.
Jayjay, best of luck in your new community, and I hope you'll find many new friends there.

And he was obviously not happy about leaving, which is why he's here complaining about not having any options in town that worked for him. I'll take that over the periodic posts from those who've left and are happy they've left and want to rub all of our noses in the fact that we're still "stuck" here...

I certainly don't expect everyone to see the world through my lens, but let's just say that many communities do not have real housing options for seniors. Seniors today have a much longer life expectancy, and with that comes issues associated with aging. I get that 55+ communities may not be for everyone. I thought they would not be for us either, until we found what they offered.

From a housing point of view, there are no steps period. Everyone gets at least one garage; many have two. Every unit has a washer dryer, wide doorways, and they are built to be energy efficient. They have two bedrooms and two baths. There is a gate and a guard. We are close to both bus lines and trains lines into NYC.

Only one person has to be over 55, and the only prohibition is against full time residents under 18. Plenty of residents still continue to work. We have a Continuous Learning Club with an affiliation with a local university who provides lecturers and with whom a mentoring program is in the works. All activities (indoor & outdoor pool, tennis, bocce etc.) included in maintenance. While taxes are still relatively high compared to other regions in the country, because our unit is at least half the size of our home, taxes are also about half as well. Utilities are ridiculously low.

Most importantly, everyone reaches out to everyone else. Their is no attitude or snobishness. People are very friendly. I have met more people in the last three months than I had met in almost 30 yrs in SO.

Could I have moved into the Newstead? Sure. But just because there is room in a unit, don't assume you can install a washer. You have to go through board approval and the whole hassle. And I have no interest in valet parking. I like driving into my garage and going right into my unit with no steps and no elevator. I like puttering in my garage on projects, and I like puttering in the small planting area in front of my unit.

I'm guessing there are plenty of people like us, as our complex has over 800 units, and the last remaining units in some cases are going into a lottery.

jayjay, I understand the appeal of those communities to some. I also don't think there is any likelihood of something like you describe being built in South Orange since we just don't have the big tracts of undeveloped land for the kind of complex you describe.

And I don't think it is fair to be quite so harsh on South Orange's options for seniors simply because it didn't have exactly what you wanted.

You found what you wanted. Yay you, and congratulations on all your new friends. I don't know how you still find the time to come here and tell us how much we are lacking!

I don't understand why you have to be so snide. Really I don't. Of course there is no room to build an 800 unit development in South Orange. But that doesn't mean that when development was considered and parcels were there, that some smaller scale options for seniors couldn't have been on the table. One day you may face a decision of whether to move or stay, and if move, to where. I hope your fellow town residents treat you with more respect.

jayjay said:
I don't understand why you have to be so snide. Really I don't. Of course there is no room to build an 800 unit development in South Orange. But that doesn't mean that when development was considered and parcels were there, that some smaller scale options for seniors couldn't have been on the table. One day you may face a decision of whether to move or stay, and if move, to where. I hope your fellow town residents treat you with more respect.

Unfortunately, in the real world, you usually get treated with the respect you have earned over time. Payback's a biotch.

Exactly...I'm responding to you, jayjay, in a tone that reflects the personality you have shown on MOL, and the interactions we have had over time, rather than the tone I use for many others here.

It may not be noble of me, but it is the way it goes. Usually I know better, and just don't answer you. Today I slipped. I am sorry I offended -- I usually try to take the high road.

I'm all for building accessible units, units that work for all ages (not just a senior citizen issue, FWIW). I don't think it makes sense to make smaller complexes age-restricted, making them compete with giant amenity-rich complexes like the one you moved to. I'm doubting that simply having the right floorplan would be enough to keep seniors who want the full senior "campus" experience from moving out of town.

I leave the town I called home for 30 years wondering what sort will take my place. The Susan's and the Dennisses? MOL, they are all yours.

Jayjayp,

Sorry that you have left SO as you usually added much needed color to the ongoing debate. If I were you, I would not pay attention to posters like Susan because she has a particular agenda and has repeatedly made nasty comments about older residents who raise questions about pay taxes for her preferences. She has no understanding of what it means to be forced to move away because of an outrageous property tax burden.

jayjay said:
I leave the town I called home for 30 years wondering what sort will take my place. The Susan's and the Dennisses? MOL, they are all yours.

I have particularly gotten to know Susan over the years through her posting on MOL and have an insane amount of respect for her. She is thoughtful, rational,authentic and fair. I'm happy to have to her.