Ryan Lochte is NOT a kid


Robert_Casotto
said:


Except that a fencing sabre wouldn't "ventilate" anything.  It might leave a nasty welt but I suppose that wouldn't be funny. 

Right. Tournament Fencing implements don't have sharp points/edges to make real-life cuts. You know lots of things, Data.


you fenced where, exactly?


broigus said:

I think we have our answer. Nohero and Dennis_Seelbach and mjh and flimbro and others here are all supporters of BDS

Actually, don't know enough about BDS to make a judgement. I can, however, make a judgement on the anti-Muslim attitude of your posts.


Dennis_Seelbach said:
broigus said:

I think we have our answer. Nohero and Dennis_Seelbach and mjh and flimbro and others here are all supporters of BDS

Actually, don't know enough about BDS to make a judgement. I can, however, make a judgement on the anti-Muslim attitude of your posts.

I try not to make a "judgement" about anyone.  Even Judges.  


Robert_Casotto said:

you fenced where, exactly?

Me? University of North Carolina. Well, only for a semester in a physical education class, half of it spent sitting chairless against a wall to strengthen the thighs. But I was runner-up in the class tournament! Would've won, too, except the woman who beat me ventilated my pants with a foil, and the coach thought it best not to risk any unsportsmanlike wagging.

Robert_Casotto said:

I try not to make a "judgement" about anyone.  Even Judges.  

Tell it to the sabRE Anglophiles.


Robert_Casotto said:

you fenced where, exactly?

On my high school fencing team. Why do you ask?


sprout said:

On my high school fencing team. Why do you ask?

Did you have to endure that sit-against-the-wall exercise? Always had a suspicion the coach was just hazing us.


Jackson_Fusion said:
flimbro said:

"violent, yet impotent, revenge fantasies?" Hell, I gotta go back and review my posts.

I just thought the image of you wagging your finger at an Olympian with a sword whilst in your dad jeans and Target running shoes was funny. 

Well, it will surprise no one reading this thread with even the slightest ability to comprehend and retain to hear that- shocker- I didn't comment on what she said other than second the suggestion that clarification would settle the issue.   

Ah, yet another group from which you find yourself excluded.

But I am delighted that fantasing about what I might be wagging and wearing brought a smile to a face that has precious little, it seems, to smile about.

Oh I'm a barrel of laughs- really. I got jokes- just not all the time and seldom in response to some of the nonsense you post.

For instance, I think this thread drift is hilarious. Hilarious in like a 'well, what did you expect' kind of way. On one hand you have a knucklehead who embarrassed himself and his country and for days was given the benefit of a doubt by everyone, domestically and internationally. Coaches, athletes, commentators, reporters, bloggers, local cops, the IOC on and on. They all did this knowing that Lochte was a dim bulb rarely capable of concentrating on anything other than himself and prone to slinging BS and getting himself into trouble.  For days everyone bit their tongues- ignoring the truth that they all knew would surface sooner or later. Giving Lochte and his handlers time to concoct a story, leave Rio and prepare a defense.

That's privilege. 

And then at the precise MOL moment when that privilege was defined, delineated and nailed to the wall three or four posts in by 'coffeegretchen', you entered the fray to start redirecting the conversation from one concerning the presence of privilege routinely accorded to white men to something about headlines about crime and perps and staving off responsibility or something or other.  From there we went to Hope Solo and Gabby Douglas and eventually landed on accusations of anti-Semitism from an African American Muslim woman fencer who'd done nothing other than her best. And in the process earned a spot on the US team and won a medal for the country that routinely terrorizes her and others who either share her color and/or practice her religion).

And so here we are, pages and days later, never having really discussed the privilege given to Lochte, but going back and forth about anti-Semitism and how to make an actual Olympic hero account for herself while the real culprit and object of this thread is forgotten.

Privilege.

I think that's hilarious and it does in fact make me smile, but I'm not laughing.


I hadn't responded earlier, but you are spot on. If these four guys had been four African-American Olympians in the same incident, it would have been treated very differently. How long would it have taken for the word "thugs" to be used as a description of the athletes?

Anyone who can't admit that these guys got off easier in the court of public opinion than black athletes would has to be in serious denial.


DaveSchmidt said:
sprout said:

On my high school fencing team. Why do you ask?

Did you have to endure that sit-against-the-wall exercise? Always had a suspicion the coach was just hazing us.

Probably... I remember doing a lot of work to strengthen our quads. 

It might actually have been a better use of my training time to focus on improving the fast twitch muscles for speed and distance of my actual lunges. While I have always had very good quad strength, I did not become a good tournament fencer. My sister, on the other hand, had a bit more speed, and became captain of the team and fenced in college.

ETA: This fencing strength training strategy looks a bit ridiculous following the big-picture above. I will 'retreat'.


sprout said:

ETA: This fencing strength training strategy looks a bit ridiculous following the big-picture above. I will 'retreat'.

Yes. Back to the real points.


flimbro said:
Jackson_Fusion said:
flimbro said:

"violent, yet impotent, revenge fantasies?" Hell, I gotta go back and review my posts.

I just thought the image of you wagging your finger at an Olympian with a sword whilst in your dad jeans and Target running shoes was funny. 

Well, it will surprise no one reading this thread with even the slightest ability to comprehend and retain to hear that- shocker- I didn't comment on what she said other than second the suggestion that clarification would settle the issue.   

Ah, yet another group from which you find yourself excluded.

But I am delighted that fantasing about what I might be wagging and wearing brought a smile to a face that has precious little, it seems, to smile about.

Oh I'm a barrel of laughs- really. I got jokes- just not all the time and seldom in response to some of the nonsense you post.

For instance, I think this thread drift is hilarious. Hilarious in like a 'well, what did you expect' kind of way. On one hand you have a knucklehead who embarrassed himself and his country and for days was given the benefit of a doubt by everyone, domestically and internationally. Coaches, athletes, commentators, reporters, bloggers, local cops, the IOC on and on. They all did this knowing that Lochte was a dim bulb rarely capable of concentrating on anything other than himself and prone to slinging BS and getting himself into trouble.  For days everyone bit their tongues- ignoring the truth that they all knew would surface sooner or later. Giving Lochte and his handlers time to concoct a story, leave Rio and prepare a defense.

That's privilege. 

And then at the precise MOL moment when that privilege was defined, delineated and nailed to the wall three or four posts in by 'coffeegretchen', you entered the fray to start redirecting the conversation from one concerning the presence of privilege routinely accorded to white men to something about headlines about crime and perps and staving off responsibility or something or other.  From there we went to Hope Solo and Gabby Douglas and eventually landed on accusations of anti-Semitism from an African American Muslim woman fencer who'd done nothing other than her best. And in the process earned a spot on the US team and won a medal for the country that routinely terrorizes her and others who either share her color and/or practice her religion).

And so here we are, pages and days later, never having really discussed the privilege given to Lochte, but going back and forth about anti-Semitism and how to make an actual Olympic hero account for herself while the real culprit and object of this thread is forgotten.

Privilege.

I think that's hilarious and it does in fact make me smile, but I'm not laughing.

Why are you hitting that screw with a hammer? 


flimbro said:

Oh I'm a barrel of laughs- really. I got jokes- just not all the time and seldom in response to some of the nonsense you post.

For instance, I think this thread drift is hilarious. Hilarious in like a 'well, what did you expect' kind of way. On one hand you have a knucklehead who embarrassed himself and his country and for days was given the benefit of a doubt by everyone, domestically and internationally. Coaches, athletes, commentators, reporters, bloggers, local cops, the IOC on and on. They all did this knowing that Lochte was a dim bulb rarely capable of concentrating on anything other than himself and prone to slinging BS and getting himself into trouble.  For days everyone bit their tongues- ignoring the truth that they all knew would surface sooner or later. Giving Lochte and his handlers time to concoct a story, leave Rio and prepare a defense.

That's privilege. 

And then at the precise MOL moment when that privilege was defined, delineated and nailed to the wall three or four posts in by 'coffeegretchen', you entered the fray to start redirecting the conversation from one concerning the presence of privilege routinely accorded to white men to something about headlines about crime and perps and staving off responsibility or something or other.  From there we went to Hope Solo and Gabby Douglas and eventually landed on accusations of anti-Semitism from an African American Muslim woman fencer who'd done nothing other than her best. And in the process earned a spot on the US team and won a medal for the country that routinely terrorizes her and others who either share her color and/or practice her religion).

And so here we are, pages and days later, never having really discussed the privilege given to Lochte, but going back and forth about anti-Semitism and how to make an actual Olympic hero account for herself while the real culprit and object of this thread is forgotten.

Privilege.

I think that's hilarious and it does in fact make me smile, but I'm not laughing.

I think you're right but almost everybody seems to ignore that Fencers wear big clunky Halloween costumes and swimmers are Almost Nude. 

There may be some folks who would play into the narrative of White/Black about this but my bet would be way more are unconsciously playing Hot or Not. This is a far better criticism to make because any denial can so easily be read as an admission.

Definitely you could identify any number of 'privileges' but I don't think that adequately explains the behavior of Lochte, Muhammed, or any of their critics. Aren't all Olympians athletes of earned privilege? Do I earn some privilege if I'm morally right? Folks on all sides don't likely care as much as people would want to believe.


@Jackson_Fusion

Because I know the racket it makes drives you crazy.


@royg

Nah, I'm pretty sure its more complex than speedos vs clunky Halloween costumes - although you do get points for originality and the ability to distill somewhat complex socio-political issues into 'Hot or Not'.

(Your last name isn't 'biv' is it?)


max_weisenfeld said:

By the way, I actually came here to congratulate the companies that reacted so swiftly by pulling their sponsorships and condemning Ryan Lochte's lying.

I'm glad to hear this.  This isn't just a case of an American acting like an ass while abroad, he was specifically representing us as a country and he embarrassed us all with his horrendous behavior. Then he skipped town like the scumbag he is, leaving the others behind to be detained.  As my husband would say, "With friends like that, who needs a proctologist?"  

And not that it would have been okay, but if he had just said NOTHING about the incident he probably would have gotten away with it.  It was his attempt to slander the security guards that brought attention to what really happened.

I hope that in a couple of years when someone talks about this they'll have to google "Rio Olympics swimmer fake robbery" to find out his name since it will have faded from memory.


poor Ryan Lochte- he can't even hold the attention in a thread bashing him for what a douchebag he is. Always in someone's shadow.


flimbro said:

@Jackson_Fusion

Because I know the racket it makes drives you crazy.




@royg

Nah, I'm pretty sure its more complex than speedos vs clunky Halloween costumes - although you do get points for originality and the ability to distill somewhat complex socio-political issues into 'Hot or Not'.

(Your last name isn't 'biv' is it?)

I'm not the one chasing you from thread to thread making fun of your sneakers, guy oh oh


flimbro said:

@Jackson_Fusion

Because I know the racket it makes drives you crazy.




@royg

Nah, I'm pretty sure its more complex than speedos vs clunky Halloween costumes - although you do get points for originality and the ability to distill somewhat complex socio-political issues into 'Hot or Not'.

(Your last name isn't 'biv' is it?)

... it is!

Don't get me wrong - I appreciate that the issue is very complex. You pointed out and I agree about the history of this thread - it is a fun read. In so many details and so many rabbit holes there are also so many more avenues for people to express hatred, dishonesty, and bigotry.

Read one way, one might believe that we need to educate the ignorant and eliminate all hated and ill will everywhere all at once. Read another way, you may observe people using facts and details and whatnot in an insincere way. Maybe another way, you see people in denial about this all coming up anyway because they developed a 2-week crush for Lochte in 2008.


Jackson_Fusion said:
flimbro said:

@Jackson_Fusion

Because I know the racket it makes drives you crazy.




@royg

Nah, I'm pretty sure its more complex than speedos vs clunky Halloween costumes - although you do get points for originality and the ability to distill somewhat complex socio-political issues into 'Hot or Not'.

(Your last name isn't 'biv' is it?)

I'm not the one chasing you from thread to thread making fun of your sneakers, guy <img src=">

Chasing from thread to thread? C'mon, it's been months- you got the whole spring and summer off.

 I will concede the sneaker point though. I was out of line. A man's sneakers should be off limits. My bad.


Not that I'm going to bat for 32-year-olds peeing on gas stations, but things are seldom what they seem.


mikescott said:
michaelgoldberg said:

Sorry, Kibbe, but calling out people who spread anti-Istael propaganda is very "cool" and appropriate   She doesn't get a pass just because she lives here - in fact BECAUSE she lives here, she should know better  

I don't agree with you, but you should have started a new thread instead of hijacking this one.  

And Kibbe -- Michael was never cool -- it was just that you might have agreed with him when he was making nasty comments about others (mostly Topey).  

I don't recall ever agreeing with Mike regarding Torpey. Really, all I know about Torp I got from MOL. 

Regarding thread high jackers - there are many who do that on MOL and it's annoying. Mike should have started his own thread about the comments and not co-mingle them into this one.


mjh said:

How has no one yet mentioned that Hope Solo is a jerk and an embarrassment?

Yes. Hope Solo is also a jerk and a sore loser. 


THIS sums it up. Well said. 

imonlysleeping said:

In my experience, this sort of rabid, unexamined support for Israel--at all costs and in the face of any criticism, no matter how reasoned--is generational and is fading fast. Younger people, both inside Israel and without, are way more open to the idea that not everything is black and white and the Israeli government has sometimes acted reprehensibly. It shouldn't surprise anyone that there are a whole lot of people in our community who feel that way, myself very much included. The idea that any criticism of Israel is either anti-Semitic or even anti-Israel is absurd and should be strongly resisted by anyone who values basic human rights. 

It's not really different in tone or content from some of the criticisms of how the U.S. is fighting "the war on terror." I'm far more critical of the U.S. than these tweets are critical of Israel.


ml1 said:

It's not really different in tone or content from some of the criticisms of how the U.S. is fighting "the war on terror." I'm far more critical of the U.S. than these tweets are critical of Israel.

The criticism itself may be comparable, but it seems to me the different contexts in which the countries exist undercut the analogy. It's similar to how you might respond to people who ask why white humor at the expense of minorities shouldn't be viewed in the same light as minority humor at the expense of whites.


I agree that criticizing a country like the U.S. in no way would be perceived as damaging in any substantial way.  But my point is that criticisms of a country's government and military aren't the same as being against that country or its people.

DaveSchmidt said:
ml1 said:

It's not really different in tone or content from some of the criticisms of how the U.S. is fighting "the war on terror." I'm far more critical of the U.S. than these tweets are critical of Israel.

The criticism itself may be comparable, but it seems to me the different contexts in which the countries exist undercut the analogy. It's similar to how you might respond to people who ask why white humor at the expense of minorities shouldn't be viewed in the same light as minority humor at the expense of whites.


kibbegirl
said:

Regarding thread high jackers - there are many who do that on MOL and it's annoying. Mike should have started his own thread about the comments and not co-mingle them into this one.

For what it is worth, I did post previously in other threads on this topic (and the comments were deleted) and I noticed that other threads started by others were deleted.  So, I simply started my comments in this thread asking why criticism of some Olympians was allowed and others were not.  It made no sense.  

Also, nobody is asking for "rabid, unexamined support for Israel".  Many of the tweets were simply untrue and anti-Israel propaganda (Israel opened dams to flood Palestinians, Israel deliberately shelled a school, Israel is "occupying someone else's land", Gaza is "under attack").  

Go ahead and question ANY government, including our own.  I just found it ironic that she focused on "human rights" of Palestinians, but has never posted about "human rights issues" in Iran, Saudi Arabia or countless other countries or the Palestinians themselves.

I've said my peace and will bow out of this thread.  (so hopefully you can get back to talking about Lochte and not pull me back in)  grin


All of this seems to be attempts to read between the lines to determine the motivation/goal of the criticism/organizations. The motivation may fall into something like these 3 categories:

  1. -To develop a safe, peaceful, and socioeconomically comfortable existence for for Jews and Palestinians in the Israel/Palestine region.
  2. -To have the world cease to recognize Israel, and have Israel cease to exist as a Jewish state.
  3. -To have Israel as a segregated Jewish state, with Palestinians as an underclass.

Perhaps it would be best to understand which of the goals one is trying to support with their criticism, instead of trying to read between the lines. Critiques may be able to fall into two of three categories.


michaelgoldberg said:




Also, nobody is asking for "rabid, unexamined support for Israel".  Many of the tweets were simply untrue and anti-Israel propaganda (Israel opened dams to flood Palestinians, Israel deliberately shelled a school, Israel is "occupying someone else's land", Gaza is "under attack").  

Before you go, I just want to point out that only the first two are untrue.  And number 2 is disputed.


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