Maplewood Motorcyclists?

I am thinking about buying a starter road bike, any suggestions?

madhatter said:

I am thinking about buying a starter road bike, any suggestions?

A little info will help you get better tips on what to look at. What do you mean when you say "road bike"? Have you ridden at all? How big a fella are you?

Rob_Sandow said:

Not to be argumentative RuhiA, but ...

OK.

@madhatter; There would be quite a few alternatives. Suzuki SV650 is what I would consider as the "starter" bike but still yet you can ride hundreds of miles in a day in comfort at a good pace, keeping up with everyone else you are riding with. My opinion is just a wild guess based on "starter" qualifier you added. Some SV650 owners might get offended becasue I considered it as a "starter" but it is simply "my" opinion. My first bike was a 1000cc "crotch rocket", whatever that means.

madhatter said:

I am thinking about buying a starter road bike, any suggestions?

When?

I'm thinking about selling my SV650S. Got lots of goodies. I think it's the best starter bike there is.

The SV650S @mja is selling would be a good starter that will last a while.

A medium old (95-05) Kawasaki 250 Ninja would be a great beginner bike if you're on the smaller side, but you'll likely outgrow it in a year. Not so the SV.

If you're into cruisers:

- Yamaha Virago 250
- Suzuki Boulevard (Savage) 650
- Honda Rebel 250 (not sure if they make these anymore)

Take the MSF course!!!!!

@madhatter definitely take the MSF course, you'll learn a lot, especially about how to share the road with drivers who are not used to sharing the road with a bike and avoiding obstacles -- those in my opinion are very crucial for your safety.

As others have suggested the sv650 is a fantastic bike that you can start with and get comfortable and can grow with you. I wouldn't go for the Kawa 250, although many folks like it as a starter bike, they almost always outgrow it within a season or two.

Don't start on a sport bike, unless you have unbelievable self control and even then it is not a good idea. I insisted on starting on a Honda F4i 600cc, probably not the best first bike and I had a couple of very scary moments on it that made me realize the power is crazy--literally you can accidentally twist your wrist and you'll be flying off the bike... Also sport bikes usually have a very non-linear power delivery, you'll be at 3-4k rpm and you think oh this is not so bad then you hit 10k and the bike will feel like it will rip out from under you, really not good for a beginner

I took the MSF course in the Bronx and it was great. Do that before you do anything else. It's a good way to find out if you even like riding. I have friends that decided to bail on riding immediately after taking the course, whereas I was immediately addicted and went out and blew a bunch of cash. Also, you don't need to own anything to take it. You just need a learner's permit from the DMV, a pair of gloves, a pair of boots or work shoes, and a bandana for the shared helmets.

I took my MSF at http://theridingcenter.com/ the owner is a very nice lady that has been active with organizing lots of riding events. The class was a small group of about 10 people, and like @mja mentioned, some realized that it was not something they wanted to do at all...

How do you feel about starting out on something like a harley sportster?

Sportster 883 is a fine starter bike, but my biased opinion is that you'll be a better rider if you start on a sportier bike like the SV.

@marcsiry just saw your oil change pic above, that's good oil you got there (liqui moly). Do you get it shipped or is there a local retailer that carries it?

Can of worms; You initially asked for a road bike not a bar parking like bike.
Sportster like bikes have a very different sitting position than the alternatives, legs forward, upright, arms stretched out... Not the most ergonomic position to best control the bike. On the other hand, if that's how you learned to ride, I wouldn't think that it would make much difference other trying to defy the laws of physics. Seriously though, riding which is more than staying upright involves turning as needed requires utilizing the handlebars and foot pegs. When your feet and handlebars so far in front of your body, you cannot push the pegs and bars down to make the bike turn as easily. My opinion is biased since I am a crotch rocket humping rider.

seaweed said:

@marcsiry just saw your oil change pic above, that's good oil you got there (liqui moly). Do you get it shipped or is there a local retailer that carries it?

It's the spec'd oil for my bike (Moto Guzzi Griso) and I had a lot of trouble finding it at local, non-Guzzi bike dealers. Out of desperation I called NAPA on Valley between 2nd and 3rd and they had It! They usually stock one jug of it at a time and the guy behind the counter refers to it as "BMW racing oil."

The spec was retroactively changed for the Griso when riders in colder climates were experiencing head failures due to oil starvation. Apparently the channels are a little thin and the 20w50 they were using previously wasn't fully circulating during short trips. I rarely ride this bike for *less* than two hours at a time, so that plus the new oil makes me confident I won't suffer the same issue.

Regarding the SV / Sportster, buy a bike you are excited about. You need to sit on it and ride it and make sure it feels good. The riding posture is critical in two ways: control and comfort.

Are you riding long distances or short? The cruisers are good for distance, bad for control. Are you planing to ride in twisty back roads or mostly freeways or mostly stop and go traffic? The way the bike is set up will determine how much you enjoy those settings. Twisties suck on cruisers, stop and go sucks on a sport bike, freeways suck...

The other thing is choosing a bike has a healthy dollop of image in it. If you're a Harley guy through and through, you'll never like an R1.

Did you get out for a ride at all yesterday? Up here in VT we did an 8 hour, 250+ mile day in the Adirondacks...some threatening clouds but not a drop of rain, thankfully.

Nope. Painted the deck.

I disagree with sport bikes being a good choice for a first bike. I think standards are much easier to get your feet wet on. That said my first bike was a sport bike. Far more important that you are comfortable on your first bike. There is a lot of stuff beginners need to pick up in a relatively short time so you don't want to have to worry about your ass, back or arms hurting because your bike has you in an uncomfortable position.

Don't get caught up in displacement and 1/4 times. Most modern motorcycles around 600cc's or better are capable enough to keep up with the pack. Lots of guys on liter bikes bought them with the small head and not the big one. They are easy to spot because you'll l see them hauling ass on the straights and parking it in the corners. Go sit on some bikes at the dealer to get an idea what will fit you.

AND TAKE THE MSF COURSE!!!! Best 75 bucks I ever spent. It's fun and you were learn a lot. Also gets you a substantial insurance discount.

And I won't sell you my bike if you don't have a license.

My bike is a "starter" bike and I think it was a good choice. My MSF instructor told me the first day that it was "too much bike" for a starter but by the end of the course came over and told me that he thought it was a good fit for me. The bad part is that I think I will outgrow it soon.

I rode dirt bikes as a kid - mostly 125 and 175 cc bikes. I took the MSF course and promised myself that if I had any fear or hesitation I wouldn't buy a bike. I'd like to think I'm older and wiser than I was 30 plus years ago.

It was money well spent. But what I realized was that there are a lot of bad drivers out there and what I mean is that of the 15 or so people who took the course I was amazed at how many couldn't follow simple instructions. The instructors would tell us what they wanted us to do then show us and people still messed it up. Maybe it was just nerves, who knows.

50% of the population is below average after all.

sportsnut said:

But what I realized was that there are a lot of bad drivers out there and what I mean is that of the 15 or so people who took the course I was amazed at how many couldn't follow simple instructions. The instructors would tell us what they wanted us to do then show us and people still messed it up. Maybe it was just nerves, who knows.

In my mind that's one of the reasons to take the course. If everyone could execute everything on the first try then why have the class?

GGartrell said:

sportsnut said:

But what I realized was that there are a lot of bad drivers out there and what I mean is that of the 15 or so people who took the course I was amazed at how many couldn't follow simple instructions. The instructors would tell us what they wanted us to do then show us and people still messed it up. Maybe it was just nerves, who knows.

In my mind that's one of the reasons to take the course. If everyone could execute everything on the first try then why have the class?

In my class there were also a number of individuals that simply were not made for a bike.. and for their own safety I hope they didn't pursue it after that class. In the class before mine, we watched one guy accidentally go full throttle on the small 250 training cruiser and fly across the parking lot and into one of the parked cars, putting a huge dent in the minivan's rear hatch with his head -- no joke! Ambulance took him out and he was ok, but a shocking start for my group to see that right before our turn..

In my mind that's one of the reasons to take the course. If everyone could execute everything on the first try then why have the class?



I guess that's true but like seaweed, the things I saw were scary. I can understand making a mistake on the bike, (we all did) but to not be able to follow instructions was problematic. We all struggled with turns, panic stopping etc. and I agree that's what the course was for. During the second day of my class it started raining pretty steadily, which I thought was pretty good. I was amazed at how well the bikes did in the rain, but it was pretty nerve wracking.

Cheap Sportster in the classifieds:

http://www.maplewoodonline.com/classifieds/zoom.php?qs1=28105653tethon28

I wanted to clarify one thing- I think the Sportster is a fine bike. I have come close to buying several versions of the Sportster in the past.

I just don't think it's a great *beginner* bike because it has very unique characteristics that not all bike share (the aforementioned riding position, seat/handlebar geometry, a lumpy engine and very low center of gravity).

Experienced riders call all of these things "character." However, I feel they may be distracting to a rider just starting out. There's enough to deal with in for just the basics of bike riding, like balance, counter steering, friction zone for the hand clutch etc. which are all-new concepts for those learning to ride. Adding "character," in my opinion, just clouds the issue.

My Guzzi also has "character" in spades, and I wouldn't recommend that bike either for the same reason- so it's not a matter of being a Harley hater.

On to the idea of 'sports bikes' as a beginner bike- the bike I mentioned, Ninja 250, may look like a sport bike due to the design of its plastic fairing, but in terms of the seating position and the power characteristics, it's really much more like a standard from years past. You could go 'full' standard like an old Nighthawk or a GS500. I just suggested the Ninja because there are so damn many of them, and resale value might be higher when you go to upgrade.

I certainly wouldn't suggest a Ducati 748 as a first bike, especially since it's likely to be dropped in the first six months... the cheaper the bike, the less you'll cry

GGartrell said:

If anyone wants to know how to turn a $50 oil change into a $500 oil change, all you have to do is over tighten the drain plug.

Ugh, hope you're talking hypothetically.

marcsiry said:

...
I certainly wouldn't suggest a Ducati 748 as a first bike, especially since it's likely to be dropped in the first six months... the cheaper the bike, the less you'll cry

oh man, the VERY FIRST TIME i took out my first bike (honda f4i 600cc) out of its storage container, I backed it out, didnt even start her up yet, and as I backed up, I fell over with it. Luckily it was a very 'controlled' fall and it literally landed on my leg and no bike part touched the ground. Bruises heal, scratched fairings dont

marcsiry said:

GGartrell said:

If anyone wants to know how to turn a $50 oil change into a $500 oil change, all you have to do is over tighten the drain plug.

Ugh, hope you're talking hypothetically.

Nope. Set my torque wrench to 17pounds and it gave well before that. Looks like there was a heli-coil installed at some point so one of my shops probably screwed me (no pun intended). Now I've either got to put another one in or replace the pan. Fortunately on my bike the pan is separate from the block but it would still cost more than the bike is worth. So heli-coil it is.

GGartrell said:

marcsiry said:

GGartrell said:

If anyone wants to know how to turn a $50 oil change into a $500 oil change, all you have to do is over tighten the drain plug.

Ugh, hope you're talking hypothetically.

Nope. Set my torque wrench to 17pounds and it gave well before that. Looks like there was a heli-coil installed at some point so one of my shops probably screwed me (no pun intended). Now I've either got to put another one in or replace the pan. Fortunately on my bike the pan is separate from the block but it would still cost more than the bike is worth. So heli-coil it is.

Ouch ... yah i would heli-coil it again -- same thing happened to me a while back but on a car, but my 'temp' fix lasted for the duration I owned the car so all was well..

seaweed said:

GGartrell said:

marcsiry said:

GGartrell said:

If anyone wants to know how to turn a $50 oil change into a $500 oil change, all you have to do is over tighten the drain plug.

Ugh, hope you're talking hypothetically.

Nope. Set my torque wrench to 17pounds and it gave well before that. Looks like there was a heli-coil installed at some point so one of my shops probably screwed me (no pun intended). Now I've either got to put another one in or replace the pan. Fortunately on my bike the pan is separate from the block but it would still cost more than the bike is worth. So heli-coil it is.

Ouch ... yah i would heli-coil it again -- same thing happened to me a while back but on a car, but my 'temp' fix lasted for the duration I owned the car so all was well..

No telling how long this one lasted. Bikes probably been in 5 different shops since I've had it. The pan is aluminum so the coil is likely the strongest part of the deal. The hard part is getting a good seal with the crush washer without pushing the coil out.