Access to all levels and programs for all?

jfburch said:
Also, while there may not be an aggregate effect large scale (state/national), there well may be one here.
The statistical reality in this district is that one has to be white, or an exceptional black student (e.g. W. E. B. Du Bois "talented tenth") to be an honors/AP student. That creates a perception that is powerfully discouraging to students who don't claim membership in either of those groups.
Perseverance requires possibility (along with encouragement). If the perception is that there is no chance for a talented, ambitious black student from the big middle to join white peers in Honors classes, then there is not much reason to try (even with parental and other support). And for kids who have more challenges, it's hopeless.
Changing the culture requires creating possibility for all students. Not all will be the top of the top. Not all will excel at everything (or want to). But every student will have room and possibility for growth and higher levels of achievement over time.
Isn't that what we all want for our kids?

I agree with your larger points here but do have a big bone to pick.

The claim "The statistical reality in this district is that one has to be white, or an exceptional black student (e.g. W. E. B. Du Bois "talented tenth") to be an honors/AP student" is not only inaccurate (cause statistically, what you're describing is not the "reality") but by painting the situation in starkly binary white/black terms, you're not acknowledging the experience of students who don't fall into either category. And if your intention was to point out that black students have to be exceptional to be in honors/AP, by referring to the rest of the honors/AP students as "white," you are implying that, no matter what your race, ethnicity or position of privilege, they are "white," as though they don't warrant having their own identity. And I find that to be somewhat offensive.

@ctrzaska

That's incredibly difficult to follow- nicely done. Let me try.

I will attempt to glean meaning and determine weight/merit from the tortuously obtuse prose proffered here in response to the aforementioned and previous, in the sense that it had in essence and fact occurred previously, missive by SPLITTING each sentence into its primary elements removing all punctuation in a sequence extended by 1 and then assigning a numerical value to each consonant and a corresponding algebraic expression for every other vowel. I believe then and only then if I am in fact fortunate or perhaps unfortunate enough to be correct in my postulation will I be able to get/dig/feel/grok the concept at the core of this alphabet tangle designed and delivered with the intention of obfuscating/masking references that may or may not be seen as untoward by those affected by such offerings

flimbro said:
That's incredibly difficult to follow- nicely done. Let me try.
I will attempt to glean meaning and determine weight/merit from the tortuously obtuse prose proffered here in response to the aforementioned and previous, in the sense that it had in essence and fact occurred previously, missive by SPLITTING each sentence into its primary elements removing all punctuation in a sequence extended by 1 and then assigning a numerical value to each consonant and a corresponding algebraic expression for every other vowel. I believe then and only then if I am in fact fortunate or perhaps unfortunate enough to be correct in my postulation will I be able to get/dig/feel/grok the concept at the core of this alphabet tangle designed and delivered with the intention of obfuscating/masking references that may or may not be seen as untoward by those affected by such offerings

I know what you mean.

@xavier67, sorry for any offense.

I know the "talented tenth" phrase can be loaded, and I use it as a kind of shorthand. There is some evidence (from studies of tracking elsewhere) that show that black and Latino kids in high levels often have to be better than the average white student there. And my impression (perhaps not a reality) from my CHS students is that their top level classes do look like that.

I also deliberately used the phrase "claim membership" to allow for individual choice as to how to identify, and certainly kids who identify (in life or in the statistics) as multi-racial, or "some other race" (or Hispanic) don't fit into a black/white binary.

The larger point, which I think you got, is that representation matters, and opening access to the top levels can benefit and motivate all students--whatever their current achievement or goals--not just the ones who take greater challenges with open acccess.

ctrzaska said:

sprout said:

ctrzaska said:

Whether the historical negative effects of restricted access as noted by sprout and flimbro has been large or not is completely irrelevant, particularly if the solution as laid out provides neither any roadmap or tangible support for reversal of the negative trend it seeks to address. And as written it assuredly does not, and to your point I'm not the one who needs to make the argument it wil. What the pessimist in me believes is that without widespread reinforcement in a positive direction (at home, in the school, and from the BOE and admin) it merely absolves the district to a good extent of appearing to retain bias. Which sounds great and makes lawyers happy, but that's about it. And thus, as written,so what?

It might help me understand what you are trying to say if you provided some examples of things that could be added/changed in the policy to improve it/give it a better chance to improve educational outcomes?

Three things off the top of my head, which I'll post later in some detail instead of putting up bullets now on the fly.

Well, besides specifics of ANY sort for starters, and off the top of my head since I'm still on my phone...

o A specific roadmap as to how to ensure that all students and parents/caregivers are apprised of the potential for expanding academic access and the means for going about setting the wheels in motion. And no, not just a community forum here and there.

o Specific details as to how the district will be ensuring that all children and their parents/caregivers, without regard to race, sex, economic status, subject, current level if applicable, the weather, whatever else, are appropriately advised of their individual options to take on a more challenging courseload, are given a tailored look into their current workload and future expectations of same, with any unmet and needed course requirements (I'm looking at you foremost, math and LA) factored in, along with the impact of extracurriculars.

o Be honest about appraising a given student's current academic situation and err on the side of encouragement. If not ready (let's face it-- many aren't), don't tiptoe around it but still give them a plan to get them farther ahead, and see below. They deserve that much. If some of us are so concerned about the latent racism purportedly endemic in this district as a roadblock to an honest appraisal, hire independent evaluators. Do it by committee. Whatever. And don't rush it. Still feeling like a student is being undercut, have an appeal process. Figure out how and with whom. No goddamned surveys.

o Make a solid and thorough foundation of academic support available and strongly encouraged (extended days, extended seat time with individual teachers, tutoring, all of the above?) in each discipline that every student can take advantage of, to ensure the district is providing every means necessary within their purview to foster individual student growth and success in those classes where they've reached higher. Should parental toolkits on managing student workloads, scheduling, etc. be found to be helpful or necessary in some cases, provide them.

o Keep the school libraries open later. Encourage their use and provide assignments that leverage in-school resources.

o Monitor each student's individual progress. Often.

o Figure out how you will define progress. Develop and disclose clear, concise and detailed metrics to track said progress. Report publicly on progress at least quarterly. Answer questions about progress, changes, lessons learned, still to do, etc. at BOE meetings when asked. No tight-lipped non-responsive BS. And for chrissakes, please, no goddamned powerpoints.

For starters.

flimbro said:
@ctrzaska
That's incredibly difficult to follow- nicely done. Let me try.
I will attempt to glean meaning and determine weight/merit from the tortuously obtuse prose proffered here in response to the aforementioned and previous, in the sense that it had in essence and fact occurred previously, missive by SPLITTING each sentence into its primary elements removing all punctuation in a sequence extended by 1 and then assigning a numerical value to each consonant and a corresponding algebraic expression for every other vowel. I believe then and only then if I am in fact fortunate or perhaps unfortunate enough to be correct in my postulation will I be able to get/dig/feel/grok the concept at the core of this alphabet tangle designed and delivered with the intention of obfuscating/masking references that may or may not be seen as untoward by those affected by such offerings

By my count, I'm missing only two commas. Omissions notwithstanding, it shouldn't be too hard to follow that I'm merely illustrating where you were wildly off base with your assumptions and biase. Again.

ctrzaska said:

flimbro said:
@ctrzaska
That's incredibly difficult to follow- nicely done. Let me try.
I will attempt to glean meaning and determine weight/merit from the tortuously obtuse prose proffered here in response to the aforementioned and previous, in the sense that it had in essence and fact occurred previously, missive by SPLITTING each sentence into its primary elements removing all punctuation in a sequence extended by 1 and then assigning a numerical value to each consonant and a corresponding algebraic expression for every other vowel. I believe then and only then if I am in fact fortunate or perhaps unfortunate enough to be correct in my postulation will I be able to get/dig/feel/grok the concept at the core of this alphabet tangle designed and delivered with the intention of obfuscating/masking references that may or may not be seen as untoward by those affected by such offerings

By my count, I'm missing only two commas. Omissions notwithstanding, it shouldn't be too hard to follow that I'm merely illustrating where you were wildly off base with your assumptions and biase. Again.

One would if one could have to categorize/characterize the former and for what it's worth this rebuttal / explanation as a fecal event extended into infinity on strict linear coordinate exhibiting a cyclical head over heels and then once again model of motility.

Or reconstituted via the lingua franca popular across the African American diasporic expanse and for brevity translated through the aforementioned 'black centric' lens-

That's a rolling line of bullsiht, my man.

However, I do agree with some of the easier to decipher examples you've offered above.

xavier67 said:

jfburch said:
Also, while there may not be an aggregate effect large scale (state/national), there well may be one here.
The statistical reality in this district is that one has to be white, or an exceptional black student (e.g. W. E. B. Du Bois "talented tenth") to be an honors/AP student. That creates a perception that is powerfully discouraging to students who don't claim membership in either of those groups.
Perseverance requires possibility (along with encouragement). If the perception is that there is no chance for a talented, ambitious black student from the big middle to join white peers in Honors classes, then there is not much reason to try (even with parental and other support). And for kids who have more challenges, it's hopeless.
Changing the culture requires creating possibility for all students. Not all will be the top of the top. Not all will excel at everything (or want to). But every student will have room and possibility for growth and higher levels of achievement over time.
Isn't that what we all want for our kids?

I agree with your larger points here but do have a big bone to pick.
The claim "The statistical reality in this district is that one has to be white, or an exceptional black student (e.g. W. E. B. Du Bois "talented tenth") to be an honors/AP student" is not only inaccurate (cause statistically, what you're describing is not the "reality") but by painting the situation in starkly binary white/black terms, you're not acknowledging the experience of students who don't fall into either category. And if your intention was to point out that black students have to be exceptional to be in honors/AP, by referring to the rest of the honors/AP students as "white," you are implying that, no matter what your race, ethnicity or position of privilege, they are "white," as though they don't warrant having their own identity. And I find that to be somewhat offensive.

Get used to it. No one other than whites and blacks count in these discussions and the experience of these "other" kids does not exist and is never mentioned. Not that they escape stereotypes, though.

Anecdotal info, but here it goes: In 2 of my kid's AP classes I noted at least 3 biracial families, a few black families and maybe even an Asian or two. The make up of these classes were more like 70:30 to 60:40 White:other (edited to clarify that "other" in this case includes black families.) I am not sure of the make up of the last AP class kid takes, but will ask today.

I am supportive of the open access policy. It cannot hurt anyone to have all kids avail the highest level of challenge. I am also mindful that the policy needs to be developed so it goes beyond words and into meaningful action.