DUMP TRUMP (previously 2020 candidates)
nan said:
What we showed you is documented fact that Bernie is being attacked by The Center for American Progress (CAP). That's the Dems interfering in there own race to support some candidates over others. That's highly unethical or cheating. People who feel their candidate has been cheated by their own party may not want to vote for the "favored" person during the general election. So, no it does not belong under a rock. All Democrats should be angry about this and complaining.
Yes - and what has Bernie done recently? He hired a guy who deleted 20,000 tweets primarily attacking democrats. So I think Bernie can share in some blame as well. Or do you call for Sirota to restore these tweets for full transparency?
jamie said:
so - will 90% of the 2020 candidates thread be paul and nan trolling that Bernie is being unfairly treated? This is really annoying guys - can you start a "Bernie is being treated fairly" thread and let everyone else discuss the candidates?
You already have this thread:
https://maplewood.worldwebs.com/forums/discussion/so-much-for-unity-at-the-dnc-corporate-democrats-purge-bernie-backers
Jamie, what are the chances of changing the "like" button to a range of choices, ala Facebook? That way, we could save time in responding to the nanpaul crappola, by merely hitting "gagging".
jamie said:
Yes - and what has Bernie done recently? He hired a guy who deleted 20,000 tweets primarily attacking democrats. So I think Bernie can share in some blame as well. Or do you call for Sirota to restore these tweets for full transparency?
When you call for Sirota to leave his tweets up, you are calling for the opportunity for more division and discord. You know that, although they were not attacking tweets and were made before Sirota worked for Sanders, they will be probably be used out of context to attack Sanders. So, you are defending the CAP attacks on Bernie and calling for more--you sound like you would rather have Trump than Bernie. You are the circular firing squad.
drummerboy said:
I've never understood the loony left's hatred of David Brock. I've always admired the guy for seeing the light and turning away from whacko conservatism.
Turned from whacko conservativism to just regular conservativism. I think he was inspired by the Clinton's crime bill.
nan said:
When you call for Sirota to leave his tweets up, you are calling for the opportunity for more division and discord.
OR Bernie could have avoided hiring a Democrat attack dog. Thus there would be no division and discord. The hypocrisy of the Bernie crowd is staggering. Sirota was a bad hire - you should at least acknowledge this.
jamie said:
OR Bernie could have avoided hiring a Democrat attack dog. Thus there would be no division and discord. The hypocrisy of the Bernie crowd is staggering. Sirota was a bad hire - you should at least acknowledge this.
Sirota was a terrific hire as the recent attacks by CAP demonstrate. When are you going to condemn the people that are trying to brainwash you into thinking you don't want good healthcare or to save the planet?
You're brainwashing everyone into thinking only Bernie wants to save the planet or provide healthcare - your side shuts down to any compromise of any other ideas. Please stop trolling this mantra.
nan said:
Ok, let's talk about Eric Swalwell everybody! Why is he running?
I thought you weren't going to attack other candidates personally.
Frankly I do not know what his proposals are, but if you do please tell us and critique them.
Nan, when are you going to address my response from earlier this morning to your assertion that the Green New Deal is a program Americans want?
You may have conveniently missed seeing this one. 9:20 am
The attacks by the Center for American Progress on Sanders, Warren and Booker were wrong and Bernie was right to call them out. But CAP is not The Democratic Party.
Dennis_Seelbach said:
jamie said:Jamie, what are the chances of changing the "like" button to a range of choices, ala Facebook? That way, we could save time in responding to the nanpaul crappola, by merely hitting "gagging".
so - will 90% of the 2020 candidates thread be paul and nan trolling that Bernie is being unfairly treated? This is really annoying guys - can you start a "Bernie is being treated fairly" thread and let everyone else discuss the candidates?
You already have this thread:
https://maplewood.worldwebs.com/forums/discussion/so-much-for-unity-at-the-dnc-corporate-democrats-purge-bernie-backers
They had nanpauls in the GOP too, they were called Tea Party and then Freedom Caucus and now Trump is president and the GOP is lobotomized. Let's make sure the same thing doesn't happen to us.
jamie said:
so - will 90% of the 2020 candidates thread be paul and nan trolling that Bernie is being unfairly treated? This is really annoying guys - can you start a "Bernie is being treated fairly" thread and let everyone else discuss the candidates?
You already have this thread:
https://maplewood.worldwebs.com/forums/discussion/so-much-for-unity-at-the-dnc-corporate-democrats-purge-bernie-backers
Actually the NY Times article is about the Democratic Party establishment, not just about Bernie Sanders.
Here is a profile of the candidate I am currently supporting. She has put out the most comprehensive and detailed policy positions.
I am interested in how others (and not just Nan) view her candidacy.
jamie said:
You're brainwashing everyone into thinking only Bernie wants to save the planet or provide healthcare - your side shuts down to any compromise of any other ideas. Please stop trolling this mantra.
Tulsi (my candidate) hasn't endorsed the New Green Deal but she has proposed legislation to eliminate fossil fuels by 2035. She's in agreement with most of the GND but my understanding is that she wants a more strictly focused climate protection bill and that she also opposes nuclear energy which is (I think) is allowed in the GND.
https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/news/rep-tulsi-gabbards-act-game-changer-heres-why
basil said:
Dennis_Seelbach said:They had nanpauls in the GOP too, they were called Tea Party and then Freedom Caucus and now Trump is president and the GOP is lobotomized. Let's make sure the same thing doesn't happen to us.
jamie said:Jamie, what are the chances of changing the "like" button to a range of choices, ala Facebook? That way, we could save time in responding to the nanpaul crappola, by merely hitting "gagging".
so - will 90% of the 2020 candidates thread be paul and nan trolling that Bernie is being unfairly treated? This is really annoying guys - can you start a "Bernie is being treated fairly" thread and let everyone else discuss the candidates?
You already have this thread:
https://maplewood.worldwebs.com/forums/discussion/so-much-for-unity-at-the-dnc-corporate-democrats-purge-bernie-backers
Well this is not a nice thing to say about the 13 million plus Democrats who supported Bernie in 2016.
STANV said:
I thought you weren't going to attack other candidates personally.
Frankly I do not know what his proposals are, but if you do please tell us and critique them.
I said I was going to go after people on their records and their funding, platform, etc. Did you watch the video? He does not even support his own platform. He endorsed the Medicare for All bill so he could say he was for Medicare for All but when asked about it he finally admitted he was only going to be for the public option and would not even sign into law the bill that he had endorsed.
He wants to put Republicans in his cabinet. He loves Republicans. He is basically a Republican.
STANV said:
The attacks by the Center for American Progress on Sanders, Warren and Booker were wrong and Bernie was right to call them out. But CAP is not The Democratic Party.
Not technically, but there is a strong link.
basil said:
They had nanpauls in the GOP too, they were called Tea Party and then Freedom Caucus and now Trump is president and the GOP is lobotomized. Let's make sure the same thing doesn't happen to us.
The Tea Party was funded by the Koch brothers for whatever nefarious ends they had in mind. The Progressives are funded by grassroots campaigns with small amounts of money given by regular people. The Progressive movement, unlike the Tea Party, is working for what people, not corporations or billionaire's want. So, when you compare it to a lobotomy, you are smearing millions of hard working Americans who want affordable healthcare, clean water and a planet where their children and grandchildren can continue to live. You are standing up for corporations and billionaires who are fighting (through CAP and other entities) to buy politicians and to prevent the will of the people from being served. How does it feel to be a willing tool?
nan said:
I said I was going to go after people on their records and their funding, platform, etc. Did you watch the video? He does not even support his own platform. He endorsed the Medicare for All bill so he could say he was for Medicare for All but when asked about it he finally admitted he was only going to be for the public option and would not even sign into law the bill that he had endorsed.
He wants to put Republicans in his cabinet. He loves Republicans. He is basically a Republican.
The heading called him Loser and Loony. I did watch the video for a while and I do not disagree with the criticism. I have no idea why he is running or what he stands for. But I do not consider him a Republican.
nan said:
Not technically, but there is a strong link.
Yes, there is a strong link between CAP and a faction of the Democratic Party, but there is a strong link between Bernie Sanders and a different faction.
And now you attack Basil as a "willing tool". Can you not accept that others have an honest difference of opinion?
nan said:
The Tea Party was funded by the Koch brothers for whatever nefarious ends they had in mind. The Progressives are funded by grassroots campaigns with small amounts of money given by regular people. The Progressive movement, unlike the Tea Party, is working for what people, not corporations or billionaire's want. So, when you compare it to a lobotomy, you are smearing millions of hard working Americans who want affordable healthcare, clean water and a planet where their children and grandchildren can continue to live.
I'm pretty sure many of the Tea Party types were "hardworking Americans who want affordable healthcare, clean water, etc.". They were manipulated by the Kochs and other Right-Wingers.
But Nan, while I want everyone, not just you, to weigh in on Liz Warren I'd also welcome your thoughts.
nan said:
basil said:The Tea Party was funded by the Koch brothers for whatever nefarious ends they had in mind. The Progressives are funded by grassroots campaigns with small amounts of money given by regular people. The Progressive movement, unlike the Tea Party, is working for what people, not corporations or billionaire's want. So, when you compare it to a lobotomy, you are smearing millions of hard working Americans who want affordable healthcare, clean water and a planet where their children and grandchildren can continue to live. You are standing up for corporations and billionaires who are fighting (through CAP and other entities) to buy politicians and to prevent the will of the people from being served. How does it feel to be a willing tool?
They had nanpauls in the GOP too, they were called Tea Party and then Freedom Caucus and now Trump is president and the GOP is lobotomized. Let's make sure the same thing doesn't happen to us.
There you go again.
btw, can't help but notice that Nan leaves out millionaires in her rant. I guess now that Bernie is a multi-millionaire, she's recalibrated her thinking.
jamie said:
so - will 90% of the 2020 candidates thread be...that Bernie is being unfairly treated?...let everyone else discuss the candidates".
Since 2015 the Democratic Party has had an intra-party split on its hands.
The division and the establishment attacks on Sanders are the central issues, because if right liberal Democrats engage attack the left as they have been, they'll likely alienate enough left liberal Dem's to lose the next election.
If you don't want Trump re-elected, you need to be aware of what your party's right flank is doing, and take a position on it that you communicate to establishment leaders.
Stick your fingers in your ears and whine about the viewpoint of the 43% that supported Sanders in 2016? - you're setting yourself up for Trump 2.0.
jamie said:
Nan - you'd do much better to post only Bernie content then Anti-Bernie content and let the other candidates make their case.
He just need to pullback on a few things. Like I said - don't make M4A & GND a litmus test as they currently stand. Embrace the ideas, but don't make it the end all solution at this time.
jamie said:
"Nan - you'd do much better to post only Bernie content then Anti-Bernie content and let the other candidates make their case."
Yea, nan, don't talk about Sanders' views in relation to other politicians' views - it's not like politics is a contest of ideas or something.
"don't make M4A & GND a litmus test as they currently stand. Embrace the ideas, but don't make it the end all solution at this time."
M4A wouldn't have advanced to the table if Sanders hadn't demanded it in 2015-16; and it won't have a chance of advancing further unless he pounds the table for it again. If you think weaker healthcare plans are better, put them next to M4A and make your case.
STANV said:
nan said:The heading called him Loser and Loony. I did watch the video for a while and I do not disagree with the criticism. I have no idea why he is running or what he stands for. But I do not consider him a Republican.
I said I was going to go after people on their records and their funding, platform, etc. Did you watch the video? He does not even support his own platform. He endorsed the Medicare for All bill so he could say he was for Medicare for All but when asked about it he finally admitted he was only going to be for the public option and would not even sign into law the bill that he had endorsed.
He wants to put Republicans in his cabinet. He loves Republicans. He is basically a Republican.
nan said:Yes, there is a strong link between CAP and a faction of the Democratic Party, but there is a strong link between Bernie Sanders and a different faction.
Not technically, but there is a strong link.
And now you attack Basil as a "willing tool". Can you not accept that others have an honest difference of opinion?
nan said:I'm pretty sure many of the Tea Party types were "hardworking Americans who want affordable healthcare, clean water, etc.". They were manipulated by the Kochs and other Right-Wingers.
The Tea Party was funded by the Koch brothers for whatever nefarious ends they had in mind. The Progressives are funded by grassroots campaigns with small amounts of money given by regular people. The Progressive movement, unlike the Tea Party, is working for what people, not corporations or billionaire's want. So, when you compare it to a lobotomy, you are smearing millions of hard working Americans who want affordable healthcare, clean water and a planet where their children and grandchildren can continue to live.
If you watched the whole video you would see why he said loony and why I think he is basically a Republican. But, I consider centrist Democrats basically old school Republicans.
Don't' get the analogy about Sanders and a different faction. He is running as a Democrat and he is wining and he can beat Trump. They say they are mad because he's "not a Democrat" but what they really mean is "he can't be bought by the donors." No one should be happy about this group and their objectives.
Basil compared me to the Tea Party. That's pretty damn insulting; if you think Progressives are some kind of wackos while believing that corrupt, CAP supported Dems are looking out for the average person's well being than you have been convinced to vote against your own well being. I agree that some Tea Party Types might need healthcare, clean water, etc. but that's not what the tea party was about. The Tea Party was Koch Brother Libertarianism which wanted limited government interference. I would not be surprised that some Tea Party people might figure out that Bernie Sanders approach might make their lives better than the Koch brother's did.
Dennis_Seelbach said:
Jamie, what are the chances of changing the "like" button to a range of choices...That way, we could save time in responding to the nanpaul crappola, by merely hitting "gagging".
"nanpaul crappola"? "crappola"? As in "crap"? Oh, 'Mad Dog' - you have delivered a truly deadly insult blow to them!
Jamie, what are the chances of changing the "like" button to "arf!" to respond to posters with subhuman animals for avatars?
STANV said:
But Nan, while I want everyone, not just you, to weigh in on Liz Warren I'd also welcome your thoughts.
Gee thanks, STANV, I feel kind of singled out by your mention of me. Warren is probably my 3rd choice for President after Bernie and Tulsi, and about the only other one that I'm OK with despite reservations. There are some other Progressive candidates such as Yang and Marianne Williamson who are interesting, but who I don't at this time feel comfortable voting for (may change with more information--and Williamson is a great speaker). I could vote for Warren, although I'd be disappointed, and I like many of her proposals, such as the one to break up big companies. I have watched some good videos of her going after bankers and those were enjoyable, especially the Wells Fargo guy who deserved to be drawn and quartered.
So, I like Warren basically, except for her foreign policy which seems to be typical Dem neocon influenced. I wish she were stronger against the military industrial complex and stop voting for increases to the military budget. I feel this is a huge problem because much of our money is going into this black hole and we need it for social programs.
I was also disappointed that she did not endorse Bernie in 2016 when he was much closer to her views than Hillary. So that was a political move and she always seems to have one foot in the establishment. Also, she is not taking PAC money during the primary, but might take it during the general and I prefer a candidate who runs from individual donors, not moneyed interests.
And that corporate influence worries me when it comes to Medicare for All, which Warren says she supports. She has also said some waffling things about it so I am concerned that she would not fight for it as strongly as Sanders would (and a major reason why he is my #1 choice). But, of the less than Progressive Dems supposedly supporting M4A, I trust her more then Harris, Gillibrand, etc. I think they would flip on Day 1, and that Swahill guy was ready to flip before Day 1.
I also wonder how she would do against Trump. Her Pocahontas thing pissed a bunch of people off and Trump would be singing that throughout the debate, but he would be calling Bernie a socialist and Pete Buttigeig "Butthead" and so forth. Every candidate will get a nickname and an insult from Trump, so I don't think that is a deal breaker. And you know I don't judge candidates based on personality, but she does have a kind of school marm introverted nerdy personality--which I really like, but others find a turn-off. Again not a deal breaker, cause they all have their quirks. She does seem kind of quiet compared to him, but you never know and, like Bernie, she has specific policy plans she could talk about and make his "We are going to cover everyone beautifully" type remarks seem superficial. In general, I think any type of Progressive with a specific plan would do better against Trump than a centrist with flowery vague platitudes would, even if they can speak them in 7 languages.
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Ok, let's talk about Eric Swalwell everybody! Why is he running?