--- about those new, large apartment buildings.

alas. That’s why we have building codes. No telling what kind of skyscrapers people would like here. Lol. 

Lovesagoodsale said:
two words: drunk driving. M


We have more alcohol, more drivers and the same infrastructure with rapidly accelerating growth and zero accountability. It’s a bad recipe for the future no matter how you slice it. If I ruled the world, people who are caught driving drunk once would lose their  licenses forever. Unaccountable politicians would be unseated and everything would be accessible on a public platform not associated with Facebook or Google. Because we all deserve transparency without being spied on. 

 You probably want a pony, too.

Third and Valley was designed by a well recognized architect.  Most of  the traffic issues that are there now were  there before the building as well.  Agree about the trucks but really, but really, how many trucks are there that need to be at the building?  garbage in early morning?   UPS, FedEx trucks usually park anywhere they want all over the village, not just there.  

and there was one neighborhood meeting for 3rd and valley -- there were maybe 25 residents  there (including myself). 

Valley street is poorly designed and not sure how they can completely redo considering some buildings are very close to the street, but I am think the larger issue is  how  to pay for that kind of overhaul.  

Garbage pickup is not typically so early in the morning.  I frequently see them there when I am headed to the train between 8-9 a.m.  As for other trucks, think moving trucks and the like.  With that number of apartments, frequent move-in/move-outs.

Steve said:
Garbage pickup is not typically so early in the morning.  I frequently see them there when I am headed to the train between 8-9 a.m.  As for other trucks, think moving trucks and the like.  With that number of apartments, frequent move-in/move-outs.

 well, for some 8 - 9 am is early 

No question it could have been better, but really don't find it to have much of an impact on traffic in that area.   I get it when you are rushing for a train it can be annoying but for the most part it has had a minimal impact on me (and I live three blocks from there.  

tomcarlson said:

Lovesagoodsale said:
two words: drunk driving. M


We have more alcohol, more drivers and the same infrastructure with rapidly accelerating growth and zero accountability. It’s a bad recipe for the future no matter how you slice it. If I ruled the world, people who are caught driving drunk once would lose their  licenses forever. Unaccountable politicians would be unseated and everything would be accessible on a public platform not associated with Facebook or Google. Because we all deserve transparency without being spied on. 

 You probably want a pony, too.

 I want the same things...........may I have a camel.

Lovesagoodsale said:
two words: drunk driving. M


We have more alcohol, more drivers and the same infrastructure with rapidly accelerating growth and zero accountability. It’s a bad recipe for the future no matter how you slice it. If I ruled the world, people who are caught driving drunk once would lose their  licenses forever. Unaccountable politicians would be unseated and everything would be accessible on a public platform not associated with Facebook or Google. Because we all deserve transparency without being spied on. 

 alcohol consumption per capita is down over time from the historic highs in the 70s, although it has been pretty flat for the last ten years or so.

max_weisenfeld said:
 alcohol consumption per capita is down over time from the historic highs in the 70s, although it has been pretty flat for the last ten years or so.

 As an unrelated aside, in the 70's the only family vacations we could afford involved borrowing a Winnebago.  My dad drove across Kansas more than once with me making him Manhattans the whole way.  I miss him.

why try to get something better when we can construct excuses that make any deviation from the herd unacceptable, right?  Be careful what you wish for. Alcohol consumption may be flat but hit and runs and other abominations are on the rise. At least we’re witty though!

author said:

 I want the same things...........may I have a camel.

 I thought you didn't smoke.

LOST said:

author said:

 I want the same things...........may I have a camel.

 I thought you didn't smoke.

 At one time I smoked a pipe .  My wife and daughter used to buy pipe smoking helper thingies.  I even had a few great meerschaums.   Then the pendulum swung to the other extreme and they harassed me to stop smoking.   I put my foot down and declared I would not be banned from smoking in my own house.  Have you seen my foot lately?

Then there was the time of a little disagreement in what was then Yugoslavia.  That one cost me 30 days of very little freedom.  One plus,  those guys played some great chess and there was much Greek spoken locally.  The problem was that everybody offered you a hand rolled cigarette. The Macedonian tobacco would bring down a satellite.   It was more or less considered an insult to turn down an offered cigarette. "When it Macedonia"    So the darn things were really addictive to a non smoker and took a while to break the habit back in the States.

Lovesagoodsale said:
two words: drunk driving. M


We have more alcohol, more drivers and the same infrastructure with rapidly accelerating growth and zero accountability. It’s a bad recipe for the future no matter how you slice it. If I ruled the world, people who are caught driving drunk once would lose their  licenses forever. Unaccountable politicians would be unseated and everything would be accessible on a public platform not associated with Facebook or Google. Because we all deserve transparency without being spied on. 

 Great idea, certainly!  But people who would drive drunk are generally also the sort of people who would drive whether they had a license or not.  Just sayin'.

Also, alcohol can't touch texting as a means of impairing someone's ability to drive straight.

Lovesagoodsale said:
why try to get something better when we can construct excuses that make any deviation from the herd unacceptable, right?  Be careful what you wish for. Alcohol consumption may be flat but hit and runs and other abominations are on the rise. At least we’re witty though!

 I’ve figured you out.   You don’t care about any of this.  All you really want is more bridges under which you can house your family.  Done with you.  

Loveagoodsale - Did you use to be on Nextdoor.com?

One of my concerns is that there does not seem to be a comprehensive plan. How are we going to improve major corridors like Springfield Ave, Valley St, South Orange Ave as these buildings are developed.

Case in point:  the traffic on Springfield Ave between Boyden and Chancellor is a mess as well as on Boyden where it intersects with Springfield.  We added a several hundred unit apartment building and also approved a Wawa right across the street, but not a single change was made to the roadway.  This is bad planning.

yahooyahoo said:
One of my concerns is that there does not seem to be a comprehensive plan. How are we going to improve major corridors like Springfield Ave, Valley St, South Orange Ave as these buildings are developed.
Case in point:  the traffic on Springfield Ave between Boyden and Chancellor is a mess as well as on Boyden where it intersects with Springfield.  We added a several hundred unit apartment building and also approved a Wawa right across the street, but not a single change was made to the roadway.  This is bad planning.

 Valid concerns.  It's become pretty difficult to make a left turn from Boyden onto eastbound SA.  Additionally Boyden Ave might as well be a cobblestone road with all the potholes and patches.  

Do our concerns have to be validated by a mean guy to be taken seriously?  That would be a sad day for our area. Is there some kind of initiation ritual to be treated with respect?  Just wondered. 

Lovesagoodsale said:
Do our concerns have to be validated by a mean guy to be taken seriously?  That would be a sad day for our area. Is there some kind of initiation ritual to be treated with respect?  Just wondered. 

 Not to worry.  Class shows.  So does lack of class.

author said:

LOST said:

author said:

 I want the same things...........may I have a camel.

 I thought you didn't smoke.

 At one time I smoked a pipe .  My wife and daughter used to buy pipe smoking helper thingies.  I even had a few great meerschaums.   Then the pendulum swung to the other extreme and they harassed me to stop smoking.   I put my foot down and declared I would not be banned from smoking in my own house.  Have you seen my foot lately?
Then there was the time of a little disagreement in what was then Yugoslavia.  That one cost me 30 days of very little freedom.  One plus,  those guys played some great chess and there was much Greek spoken locally.  The problem was that everybody offered you a hand rolled cigarette. The Macedonian tobacco would bring down a satellite.   It was more or less considered an insult to turn down an offered cigarette. "When in Macedonia"    So the darn things were really addictive to a non smoker and took a while to break the habit back in the States.

Lovesagoodsale said:
Do our concerns have to be validated by a mean guy to be taken seriously?  That would be a sad day for our area. Is there some kind of initiation ritual to be treated with respect?  Just wondered. 

 Assuming this is directed at me I'll take a few moments to clarify.  You have alluded to or outwardly mentioned the following:

1. buildings being built with no regard for safety or ADA compliance

2. lack of communication or opportunity for community input prior to the construction of new buildings

3. the need for or benefits of businesses such as multi-tenant office space and a science center

4.  the possibility of changing codes for purposes such as allowing property owners to rent out rooms. 

Your propositions demonstrate a lack of understanding of how things work on a local level.  In response to these points:

1.  Every building goes through a detailed plan review (conducted by professionals) to ensure compliance with local codes and larger concerns such as ADA.  If you have information that this is not happening, take your evidence to the appropriate authorities.  

2.  Meetings are conducted by various local governing bodies concerning town business.  They are announced in advance and are free to attend and comment.  

3.  It is not government's role to create businesses be there a demand or not.  It is also not their responsibility to go seek qualified individuals to create those businesses or finance them.  We are over taxed and struggle to pay for our school district, police, fire, etc.  Noone is stopping you from pursuing the creation of these businesses yourself, or encouraging other capable private citizens of doing so.  

4.  Perhaps we should review building codes to better reflect today's needs.  That takes involvement.  Refer to #2 above.  Regarding permitting owners to rent out rooms, wouldn't that result in the same overcrowding, traffic, and burden on infrastructure you oppose over the construction of these buildings?

I am not a mean person, I just object to people coming into adult conversations and speaking like a child.  I would react differently if you came here seeking to be educated on a specific issue by those in the know, but that's not what you're doing.    Our local elected representatives work hard for no benefit other than being subjected to constant complaints and accusations levied by people who don't know what they are talking about.  Too few of us stand up for them.  You are of course welcome to post whatever you wish.  Generally you will find your comments more welcomed (by me and others) if you take some time to educate yourself on the issues before sharing your opinions.  

tl;dr

A problem we have in SO is that the ordinances or codes or whatever they are become relaxed for some of these projects. That nullifies the point of having them at all. 

PS: never assume 

Lovesagoodsale said:
tl;dr


A problem we have in SO is that the ordinances or codes or whatever they are become relaxed for some of these projects. That nullifies the point of having them at all. 


PS: never assume 

 Fair enough.  Please list here so that we may discuss them. 

eta:  you don't have to list them all, just the ones which have become relaxed.  

Lovesagoodsale said:
two words: drunk driving. M

After rereading this thread, I started wondering what exactly is the connection between these new apartment buildings (planned or already built) and drunk driving?  Does every new building have a liquor store incorporated in its structure?  Or are you assuming that everyone who lives in an apartment drives drunk?  I do agree there is a possibility that increasing population density may have an effect on the number of cars on the road, just not understanding why it would cause more drunk driving.

have a nice day everyone. I tire of the snake pit. 

mulemom said:

Lovesagoodsale said:
two words: drunk driving. M

After rereading this thread, I started wondering what exactly is the connection between these new apartment buildings (planned or already built) and drunk driving?  Does every new building have a liquor store incorporated in its structure?  Or are you assuming that everyone who lives in an apartment drives drunk?  I do agree there is a possibility that increasing population density may have an effect on the number of cars on the road, just not understanding why it would cause more drunk driving.

 Perhaps assumption being is that more drivers = more inebriated drivers all other factors remaining equal. Problem of course is that all other factors seldom remain equal.

joan_crystal said:

mulemom said:

Lovesagoodsale said:
two words: drunk driving. M

After rereading this thread, I started wondering what exactly is the connection between these new apartment buildings (planned or already built) and drunk driving?  Does every new building have a liquor store incorporated in its structure?  Or are you assuming that everyone who lives in an apartment drives drunk?  I do agree there is a possibility that increasing population density may have an effect on the number of cars on the road, just not understanding why it would cause more drunk driving.

 Perhaps assumption being is that more drivers = more inebriated drivers all other factors remaining equal. Problem of course is that all other factors seldom remain equal.

 That one loses me, too.  I mean, dense downtown development encourages foot traffic.  It would be easy to get lit and walk back to the apartment.  I'm not saying there won't be or isn't more traffic, I'm just wondering about the drunks.

Wondering is nice but I do wonder why it’s so hard to get traffic stats from our local governments except when they wanna build big condos and then some private firm is hired to do the study. Something seems amiss. 

FilmCarp said:

joan_crystal said:

mulemom said:

Lovesagoodsale said:
two words: drunk driving. M

After rereading this thread, I started wondering what exactly is the connection between these new apartment buildings (planned or already built) and drunk driving?  Does every new building have a liquor store incorporated in its structure?  Or are you assuming that everyone who lives in an apartment drives drunk?  I do agree there is a possibility that increasing population density may have an effect on the number of cars on the road, just not understanding why it would cause more drunk driving.

 Perhaps assumption being is that more drivers = more inebriated drivers all other factors remaining equal. Problem of course is that all other factors seldom remain equal.

 That one loses me, too.  I mean, dense downtown development encourages foot traffic.  It would be easy to get lit and walk back to the apartment.  I'm not saying there won't be or isn't more traffic, I'm just wondering about the drunks.

+1.

Also, if more people lived downtown and made it their habit to walk places (which might include dog walking), including at night, wouldn't that make South Orange safer since there would be more "eyes on the street"?

Lovesagoodsale said:
Wondering is nice but I do wonder why it’s so hard to get traffic stats from our local governments except when they wanna build big condos and then some private firm is hired to do the study. Something seems amiss. 

 The developers do the traffic studies.  

And the reason small they are not done by government is they are very expensive.  

S. Orange is doing a master plan and part of that will include some study being done on traffic.  

mikescott said:

Lovesagoodsale said:
Wondering is nice but I do wonder why it’s so hard to get traffic stats from our local governments except when they wanna build big condos and then some private firm is hired to do the study. Something seems amiss. 

 The developers do the traffic studies.  
And the reason small they are not done by government is they are very expensive.  
S. Orange is doing a master plan and part of that will include some study being done on traffic.  

Everybody has been invited to participate. 

"On behalf of the South Orange Board of Trustees, welcome to the official website of the South Orange Master Plan. To date, we have been working tirelessly to develop a robust communications and outreach strategy with community leaders and volunteers that will deliver the most comprehensive planning document our Village has undertaken since 1978. Over the next several months, known as our “Visioning Phase”, large and small-scale community conversations and forums will be happening, a variety of surveys will be distributed in different forms, stakeholder interviews will be conducted and much more. There is absolutely a seat for everyone at this table. I encourage you to participate in shaping our shared future together and remember – both planning and passion are priceless!"

https://somasterplan.com/