Why is the pool so expensive?
mrincredible said:
kthnry said:
sac said:
And the alternative is for everyone to pay for it via their taxes, and I'm sure you would hear screams about that if it came to pass.
I'm glad we pay for the pool through our taxes in SO, even though I never go. I see it as part of the commons. The Maplewood pool is $470 for the season for a family (early-bird price). That's real money for a lower-income family. I'm happy to pay my $50/year (or whatever) for the pool so everyone can enjoy it.
$30 early registration per person in the household.
I'd love to know more about the grant that paid for the South Orange pool. When it happened, who gave it and how it's structured.
In 1911, in memory of Rev. Louis Cameron, a group of South Orange residents purchased the five acres which is known as Cameron Field and deeded them to the Village "for a free and public playground and for no other purpose." The swimming pool was built in the 1920's.
Here's some interesting reading about the successful fight in 1969 by some residents to prevent the Village from building a subscription pool at Cameron Field.
http://www.sopl.org/mediawiki/images/8/84/Cameron_Field_-_Last.pdf
eta - It was only about 15 years ago, as I recall, that residents had to pay a recreation fee to use the pool. Before that,it was not necessary to pay a recreation fee.
Just an FYI. The rights to the food concession are bid out by the town to a private vendor.
Jackson_Fusion said:
joan_crystal said:
The Maplewood Pool is viewed as a public utility not a town department. As such, it is required to be self sufficient with no money contributed by the town. Price is driven by overall cost per member based on anticipated membership and anticipated costs for the pool season. As membership declines, which it has in recent years, the cost per member rises. If you want to keep costs down, consider recruiting more pool members. If you are concerned about lower income Maplewood residents being priced out of the pool, consider contributing to the fund which provides financial subsidies to those in need.
Cost is not limited to staff and administration of the pool. There are also capital construction and maintenance costs that need to be met. The pool is relatively old and may need extensive repair going forward. Need to repair/replace the filtration system was mentioned at the public hearing portion of a recent TC meeting where increasing fees was under discussion. Given all of these factors, I am not sure if a direct comparison can be made between Maplewood Pool and other pools in our area.
The informed voice of reason strikes again.
I imagine the insurance is quite high and belongs to the pool, as opposed perhaps to a town- level policy. Particularly given the diving boards, etc.
I’ve not been thrilled with the food last couple years either FWIW. The kids at the stand (and the kids working directly for the pool) in my experience are pretty darn diligent. I’ve been impressed and figured it would be a great summer job for a youngster that needs exposed to an operation that is running right.
Did the RFP already go out for concessions? If not, perhaps if someone has a student in business school who is looking for their summer business project, this could be it (perhaps in collaboration with Freemans)? (Just mentioning this as someone who waited tables for a small restaurant venture started by 3 business school buddies on their summer break back in the 1990's, which has grown and is continuing to do well).
Pool concession stands have always been a challenge. Profit /loss is very weather dependent, and then managing the kids is not an easy task. Plus people expect the pool snack bar to be well staffed and at the same time have fairly cheap food options.
The pool is not a private entity. They bid out the food concession to a private entity.
The pool is a public utility that is supported by membership fees, not by tax dollars.
als4532 said:
Why does the town get to bid out if the pool is a private entity?
als4532 said:
Why does the town get to bid out if the pool is a private entity?
As stated above, the pool is a public utility not a private entity. Think of the pool's relationship with the town as a shared service agreement. The town bills the pool for in-kind services that the pool administration is unable to provide on its own. Bidding out the food concession is one of those in-kind services.
I guess all of this makes some sort of sense. It just seems overly complicated for something that should just be part of the town's recreation department, like parks, and tennis courts, etc.
I don't live in Maplewood anymore so cannot speak to the current pricing of the pool but I can say that I've never been to a public or quasi public recreational facility as physically attractive and appealing. Price seemed very reasonable at the time. It was a wonderful amenity to have available even if we were not among the most frequent users. My children loved splashing in the baby pool, feeing superior in the toddler pool, and venturing to the big pool, on whose grassy slope I used to like to sit. In the decades that we lived in town the charm of the pool didn't change, though as I got older my tolerance for diapered children and people who grumbled about adult swim certainly decreased. When we first moved to town there was in fact a waiting list because number of members was limited. I'm sorry to hear that membership is declining and I hope the pool will continue to thrive in recognizable form despite that.
Thread title is misleading --- pool is not that expensive. What the OP really wants is the pool to be subsidized by the town like other recreation programs. I tend to agree with that sentiment. Or at least feel the town should contribute to the pool trust fund to reflect that it is an asset to the town. Perhaps 50% from all taxpayers and 50% from those who use the pool.
I am glad to see that the Pool remains a subject of controversy in Maplewood as it has been, for one thing or another, for the over 30 years I have lived here.
It's a constant, one that helps make Maplewood Maplewood. 
Re the food, there is apparently a requirement to take bids and accept the high (or is it low? not sure if we are talking about vendor payment in or ??), so I think that explains the poor quality. If the RFP had different requirements about customer pricing and food offerings that might help.
I'm not convinced that we can run the pool in a way that satisfies its users at a lower cost than is already being done. Already, many of the employees are low-wage teens (and it IS one of the good "starter" employment opportunities in town) and I'm sure that the pool management/committee are not wasting money on the operation. So to make it cost less, there would probably have to be some sort of taxpayer subsidy. Is that what people want?
Of course I would love to be able to join for a lower fee, but I'm not sure that non-user residents should bear the cost of that. (Now if you are talking about schools, libraries, police, public works, etc. then I have a different opinion on that, but I don't think the pool is in the same category.)
I don't know the history but the pool was set up as a public utility. My assumption is that the legal structure of the pool entity would have to change to allow the town to contribute financially in the way you suggest.
mikescott said:
Thread title is misleading --- pool is not that expensive. What the OP really wants is the pool to be subsidized by the town like other recreation programs. I tend to agree with that sentiment. Or at least feel the town should contribute to the pool trust fund to reflect that it is an asset to the town. Perhaps 50% from all taxpayers and 50% from those who use the pool.
You can’t compare the Maplewood pool to the South Orange one. South Orange is legally restricted in charging residents if they want to use the pool, so they have no choice but to pay for it through taxes
But you also can’t compare it with a health club that has a pool, or a county club that has a pool, since both of those other scenarios have other items to draw in members making it so that they can get more members year round to spread out the costs
You can, however, compare the costs of Maplewood Pool with swim clubs and private pools that are just outdoor pools with no other amenities. When put in that light, the cost of the pool membership isn’t that out of line. And though I haven’t done a lot of research on swim clubs, I can say that an in-law of mine up in Bergen County belongs to one since her town doesn’t have a pool. The membership fee is higher than for the Maplewood Pool, and while their facilities are nice, they aren’t on the level of Maplewood
In regards to the snack stand, it is just that, a snack stand. Most people don’t go to a town pool for a sit down dinner. While I’m sure there would be a few families who would love to be able to get a restaurant quality meal while at the pool, most families wouldn’t spend that kind of money there on a regular enough basis for them to break even
It just ended up being too expensive for our family, and its the same for several of our neighbors. We joined two summers in a row, but did not join last year. In talking with neighbors, its challenging for many families with 2 working parents to be able to make full and regular use of the pool. That's on us, for sure, but I think the current fee structure favors families with flexibility to go regularly during the week and on weekends.
The fee structure is posted here:
https://maplewood.recdesk.com/Community/Membership/Detail?membershipId=80
We tend to go an average of once/weekend. (As 2 working parents, we mostly go once on the weekends, but occasionally on a weekday night since it's open until 8pm, and sometimes has special events).
At $470 for a family of 4, across the 15 weekends the pool is open, our average cost comes to $31 each family visit (i.e., just under $8/person for family of 4).
(We tend to spend more than that for a family meal at the local diner. So bringing some of our own food to the pool, but buying the ice cream there, tends to work out to a similar weekend lunch or dinner family cost... but that cost spreads across more hours at the pool).
as a “charter” member of the Maplewood pool in its first year, I can safely say the pool is a tremendous value for young families! We had 4 little ones who all learned how to swim - and become lifelong swimming enthusiasts. As a SAHM, my summers were spent enjoying watching the kids in a clean, cool environment — while also engaged in adult chin wags with fellow parents.
Get on the parkway in August in a stifling car with 4 kids, to sit on hot sand, to return home with sand encrusted towels and baggage? Plus a meal out on the way home? Did I mention traffic?!
The pool provided 7 days a week fun, minutes from home, saving money, gas, and my sanity!
I should have included the migraine I developed watching the kids floundering in the surf. Thank God, this episode in my life predated Jaws!
The informed voice of reason strikes again.
I imagine the insurance is quite high and belongs to the pool, as opposed perhaps to a town- level policy. Particularly given the diving boards, etc.
I’ve not been thrilled with the food last couple years either FWIW. The kids at the stand (and the kids working directly for the pool) in my experience are pretty darn diligent. I’ve been impressed and figured it would be a great summer job for a youngster that needs exposed to an operation that is running right.