Why don't many people use their turn signals anymore??

mrmaplewood said:

Devil's Advocate:

I can see some sense for making the left turn first at a stoplight.  New Jersey is a very densely populated state and the roads reflect this problem.  If a person wanting to make a left at the red light were to wait for oncoming traffic to pass, it might not be possible to make the turn at all, plus he will be holding up the parade of cars behind him.  Thus as a matter of efficiency, and courtesy to the people behind him, the Jersey left was born.  I personally do not get ticked off when someone makes this turn in front of me, I understand.  Oh yes, it is most likely illegal also, but it seems to be as accepted as much as passing on the right has become on the highway.

Remember, I am playing Devil's Advocate, so don't pile on too high.

It is only "accepted" (or at least expected) around here, I would advise you not to try it in other places.  And it is definitely NOT legal anywhere. 

I am always fascinated by the horrific intersection at Valley and Springfield/124.   Clearly there needs to be a left turn arrow for those coming from Valley, but there isn't.  

We quickly learned to avoid the intersection and if we want to go to Target/Whole Foods or Home Depot, we take Vauxhall and turn right.  This is a sanctimonious statement, but how foolish is it to try to make that left from Valley a daily basis?

On a more logical note - any suggestions on who has the power to change the lights there?  

EBennett said:

I am always fascinated by the horrific intersection at Valley and Springfield/124.   Clearly there needs to be a left turn arrow for those coming from Valley, but there isn't.  

We quickly learned to avoid the intersection and if we want to go to Target/Whole Foods or Home Depot, we take Vauxhall and turn right.  This is a sanctimonious statement, but how foolish is it to try to make that left from Valley a daily basis?

On a more logical note - any suggestions on who has the power to change the lights there?  

I think that they are both county roads, so perhaps someone in Union County's government, but I have no idea where you would start to find out who.

It probably has something to do with the fact that all that traffic trying to make a left is coming from Essex County.

So really, who in Union County really gives a s***?

I hate when people ask about my driving skills and then don't stick around for an answer. Just don't understand why someone would go through all the trouble of asking when they're not going to wait for a reply. Last week I stopped at a red light with my right turn signal on and the driver behind me immediately started honking the horn. I made the right on red and pulled over to park. The driver pulled up next to me, opened her window and started screaming "why did you stop you a***ole, nobody was coming and I almost hit you". Before I could respond about the law and safety and such minor things that went into my decision to stop, she  drove away. I don't get it 'cause at first she seemed really interested in what I had to say.

I hate when the state decides to do roadwork, like they did last Sunday afternoon, on the turnpike near the Meadowlands and we get stuck in 3 hours of traffic for what should have been a half hour drive.  To make matters worse I was in the car with my mother in law

Oh man I saw that traffic jam. I was in the southbound lanes, grateful that I'd escaped. I feel for you.

mcgoey said:

I hate when the state decides to do roadwork, like they did last Sunday afternoon, on the turnpike near the Meadowlands and we get stuck in 3 hours of traffic for what should have been a half hour drive.  To make matters worse I was in the car with my mother in law

tom said:

The roads are horrible, the signage is worse. There's no space, and too many cars occupying it.

As for the "Jersey Left," I've noticed another kind of Jersey Left. That's when drivers turning left feel the need to allow 10 car lengths for every 10 MPH of speed. You might be stacked up 20 deep, but the cars ahead of you will move through in ultra-slow motion leaving huge gaps between them.

You might think, "well they're afraid other Jersey drivers will cut them off coming the other way." But it's actually just as bad at "T" intersections. Case in point, turning left from Wyoming onto South Orange Ave.

 I'm not clear on the nature of your complaint.

Would you have left-turners run through the intersection at the allowable speed limit? Do you complain that left-turners without oncoming traffic do not proceed briskly enough, given the traffic conditions? Something else?

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mrmaplewood said:

Devil's Advocate:

I can see some sense for making the left turn first at a stoplight.  New Jersey is a very densely populated state and the roads reflect this problem.  If a person wanting to make a left at the red light were to wait for oncoming traffic to pass, it might not be possible to make the turn at all, plus he will be holding up the parade of cars behind him.  Thus as a matter of efficiency, and courtesy to the people behind him, the Jersey left was born.  I personally do not get ticked off when someone makes this turn in front of me, I understand.  Oh yes, it is most likely illegal also, but it seems to be as accepted as much as passing on the right has become on the highway.

Remember, I am playing Devil's Advocate, so don't pile on too high.

 Letting a person make a left turn, notwithstanding your right of way, is being considerate to the left-turner; and not-so-much to the drivers behind you. An on-coming left-turner  punching the throttle to get through the intersection before you can proceed forward? That's something different.

And for what it's worth; passing on the right on a roadway with defined lanes, is not illegal in the Garden State.

EBennett said:

I am always fascinated by the horrific intersection at Valley and Springfield/124.   Clearly there needs to be a left turn arrow for those coming from Valley, but there isn't.  

We quickly learned to avoid the intersection and if we want to go to Target/Whole Foods or Home Depot, we take Vauxhall and turn right.  This is a sanctimonious statement, but how foolish is it to try to make that left from Valley a daily basis?

On a more logical note - any suggestions on who has the power to change the lights there?  

I do it all the time without issue.  You have to turn left right when the light turns green or else you will be stuck.  You can't turn left when the light turns yellow because everybody going straight keeps going until the light is well and truly read.

That intersection is in dire need of traffic enforcement.  You could support a police booth with proceeds from tickets.

Tom_R said:

tom said:

The roads are horrible, the signage is worse. There's no space, and too many cars occupying it.

As for the "Jersey Left," I've noticed another kind of Jersey Left. That's when drivers turning left feel the need to allow 10 car lengths for every 10 MPH of speed. You might be stacked up 20 deep, but the cars ahead of you will move through in ultra-slow motion leaving huge gaps between them.

You might think, "well they're afraid other Jersey drivers will cut them off coming the other way." But it's actually just as bad at "T" intersections. Case in point, turning left from Wyoming onto South Orange Ave.

 I'm not clear on the nature of your complaint.

Would you have left-turners run through the intersection at the allowable speed limit? Do you complain that left-turners without oncoming traffic do not proceed briskly enough, given the traffic conditions? Something else?

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TomR

I'm complaining that left-turners without oncoming traffic do not proceed briskly enough. There is no reason to go so much more slowly than necessary through the turn; people behind them get stuck.

"I'm complaining that left-turners without oncoming traffic do not proceed briskly enough. There is no reason to go so much more slowly than necessary through the turn; people behind them get stuck. "

That's why they made horns, & if that fails forget the Jersey left, give them the  Old Jersey bird.

Tom_Reingold said:

Surya said:

@Tom, C, B, A

 That's what I would expect most people to say, but no, it's better to put your turn signal on before you look. That way, by the time you look, your signal has been running for a second or two, giving others advance warning of your intention.

That's what I said. Signal (c), look (b) then make your move(a). Signal should come on a half block before turning.

i hate it worst when someone has a right blinker on but makes a left...   

tom,

Thank you for the clarification.

It would annoy me as well.

TomR

sac said:

EBennett said:

I am always fascinated by the horrific intersection at Valley and Springfield/124.   Clearly there needs to be a left turn arrow for those coming from Valley, but there isn't.  

We quickly learned to avoid the intersection and if we want to go to Target/Whole Foods or Home Depot, we take Vauxhall and turn right.  This is a sanctimonious statement, but how foolish is it to try to make that left from Valley a daily basis?

On a more logical note - any suggestions on who has the power to change the lights there?  

I think that they are both county roads, so perhaps someone in Union County's government, but I have no idea where you would start to find out who.

That intersection is the best of all worlds, a State highway, Springfield Ave/124 meeting a Union Co highway, Valley St./638.  And the brilliant design you experience is the result of "improvements" completed by NJDOT in anticipation of the traffic tsunami from the Crescent Marketplace (WF/Target/etc.).  I recall prior to the reconfiguration, there was a protected left from Valley onto Springfield, and the jughandle traffic didn't directly oppose the folks turning left onto Springfield.  Whoever thought lining the two up and eliminating the protected left was a good idea needs to go back to engineering school.

More recently, DOT eliminated the merge from Valley onto Springfield, only they forgot to put signs n Springfield telling people this.  Although the signs are now there and the solid line and lack of need to stop is clear, many people coming from Valley still feel the need to come to complete stop out of habit or inability to read.  

So who do you talk to?  Definitely start with NJDOT, as the intersection likely under their control.  For anyone who wishes, I'd start here..

http://www.nj.gov/transportation/about/directory/northregion.shtm

Or if you prefer, the Community Relations Office at HQ,  609.530.2110

I've seen too many drivers ignore those lane markings and signs on SA to NOT slow way down when approaching from Valley Street.  Apologies if you are behind me and annoyed by that, but it just isn't a safe situation.

Surya said:

This is something that has been bothering me for some time. It seems that a good 40-50 percent of people no longer use their turn signals. Do they no longer teach that in Driver's Ed? My next door neighbor was hit as she pulled into her driveway because she made a wide turn to approach it but did not signal. The person behind her assumed she was headed left and pulled right and wound up hitting my neighbor as she ultimately turned right into her driveway. And it is really frustrating to wait  at an uncontrolled intersection watching a car come your way then have them turn on to the street where you are waiting - no signal. There is a reason why turn signals were invented folks!!

But the majority of people ignore turn signals these days too, so I'm not sure whether signaling would have helped your neighbor much anyway.

I can't tell you the countless numbers of times I have experienced the converse of your neighbor:  I DO signal with plenty of time, and slow down, before making a the turn into my driveway, and yet easily 90% of drivers these days completely ignore the signal and try to pass me as I'm turning, almost hitting me.  This happens on a daily basis and I'm still at a loss for what to do about it.

sac said:

I've seen too many drivers ignore those lane markings and signs on SA to NOT slow way down when approaching from Valley Street.  Apologies if you are behind me and annoyed by that, but it just isn't a safe situation.

 I didn't mean to imply you shouldn't slow down and look.  That's what you're supposed to do.  Problem is many people still come to a full stop, which risks them being rear ended.

Coming from Valley onto Springfield going west, you had better be on guard.  I was following a car going west on Springfield the other day and the driver clearly violated the painted lines, crossing over into the right lane where Valley St cars enter.  Fortunately there was no one there, but the danger was clear.  This driver wanted to exit onto 24 and needed extra time and clearance before the exit.  Painted lines may have to be replaced by a solid barrier.

If you plan to go from Valley to Springfield west, I suggest you check for jerks like this first.  You may have to slow down.

Suzie2 said:

I can't tell you the countless numbers of times I have experienced the converse of your neighbor:  I DO signal with plenty of time, and slow down, before making a the turn into my driveway, and yet easily 90% of drivers these days completely ignore the signal and try to pass me as I'm turning, almost hitting me.  This happens on a daily basis and I'm still at a loss for what to do about it.

Are you talking about turning left into your driveway? If people try to pass you on the left, then perhaps the best thing is to stop and stay stopped until no one is left behind you. It's lame that you have to do this, but you're dealing with New Jersey drivers. Be sure to keep your front wheels pointed straight forward, and don't start turning until it's safe.

If people try to pass you on the right when you're turning right into your driveway, they are certifiable. But don't give them the room to  squeeze by your car's right side. Move to the right edge of the road before you get close to your driveway.

My father taught me how to make the "Jersey left" when he was teaching me how to drive... he called it "creeping up." Wish I could do it at that awful Valley/Springfield intersection, but there's usually too much traffic heading westbound on Springfield to be able to stick your nose out safely. FWIW, it's still a lousy intersection but there have been improvements made recently. For a while there, the green time was so comically short that you could only get one car through from Valley to eastbound Springfield per light cycle, and the queues back up Valley were awful. I guess a lot of complaints reached the right ears because they lengthened the green time and now, if you're two or three cars back, you will probably make it through the intersection on the first cycle...

Suzie2 said:

Surya said:

This is something that has been bothering me for some time. It seems that a good 40-50 percent of people no longer use their turn signals. Do they no longer teach that in Driver's Ed? My next door neighbor was hit as she pulled into her driveway because she made a wide turn to approach it but did not signal. The person behind her assumed she was headed left and pulled right and wound up hitting my neighbor as she ultimately turned right into her driveway. And it is really frustrating to wait  at an uncontrolled intersection watching a car come your way then have them turn on to the street where you are waiting - no signal. There is a reason why turn signals were invented folks!!

But the majority of people ignore turn signals these days too, so I'm not sure whether signaling would have helped your neighbor much anyway.

I can't tell you the countless numbers of times I have experienced the converse of your neighbor:  I DO signal with plenty of time, and slow down, before making a the turn into my driveway, and yet easily 90% of drivers these days completely ignore the signal and try to pass me as I'm turning, almost hitting me.  This happens on a daily basis and I'm still at a loss for what to do about it.

Well Suzie2, at least you will be in the right when the police come to take the accident report (chuckle), unlike my neighbor.  - small consolation I know.

I was thinking about this exchange this morning when the less-than-skilled driver in front of me moved all the way to the left side of Jefferson and then put on his turn signal to turn right into his driveway.  If I had not thought of this thread, I might have tried to pass him on the right and been hit.

He was driving a medium-size car and I have no idea why he needed to swing all the way to the left to turn right into his driveway.  Our driveway has a stone wall on the right so I have to swing out a little but not so far that I leave the right lane.  Although I avoid the problem by always approaching our driveway from the left.

Tom_Reingold said:

Suzie2 said:

I can't tell you the countless numbers of times I have experienced the converse of your neighbor:  I DO signal with plenty of time, and slow down, before making a the turn into my driveway, and yet easily 90% of drivers these days completely ignore the signal and try to pass me as I'm turning, almost hitting me.  This happens on a daily basis and I'm still at a loss for what to do about it.

Are you talking about turning left into your driveway? If people try to pass you on the left, then perhaps the best thing is to stop and stay stopped until no one is left behind you. It's lame that you have to do this, but you're dealing with New Jersey drivers. Be sure to keep your front wheels pointed straight forward, and don't start turning until it's safe.

If people try to pass you on the right when you're turning right into your driveway, they are certifiable. But don't give them the room to  squeeze by your car's right side. Move to the right edge of the road before you get close to your driveway.

EBennett said:

I was thinking about this exchange this morning when the less-than-skilled driver in front of me moved all the way to the left side of Jefferson and then put on his turn signal to turn right into his driveway.  If I had not thought of this thread, I might have tried to pass him on the right and been hit.

He was driving a medium-size car and I have no idea why he needed to swing all the way to the left to turn right into his driveway.  Our driveway has a stone wall on the right so I have to swing out a little but not so far that I leave the right lane.  Although I avoid the problem by always approaching our driveway from the left.

Wow, EBennett, Glad my short rant save you from an accident!! One never knows how what one says or writes will wind up affecting someone else.

I've had someone squeeze past me on the right....as I was turning right into a parking space....and hadn't pulled far to the left to make the turn........there was room to pass me on the left.

EBennett said:

I was thinking about this exchange this morning when the less-than-skilled driver in front of me moved all the way to the left side of Jefferson and then put on his turn signal to turn right into his driveway.  If I had not thought of this thread, I might have tried to pass him on the right and been hit.

 I had been under the impression that it was unlawful to pass on the right, unless there were multiple, and clearly defined, lanes. Is there a section of Jefferson that has such lane markings?

------

With regard to the left from Valley on to Springfield; I had long presumed that the traffic light timing is such as it is, because the smart guys responsible for the set-up had wanted to discourage the use of Valley as an access route to Home Depot, Target, Best Buy, etc..

I think that the problem of using Springfield, west of Tuscan Road; is largely one of perception. As in "I hate driving on Springfield".

Another's perception of the intersection, may, of course, vary.

Happy motoring.

TomR

Tom_R said:

With regard to the left from Valley on to Springfield; I had long presumed that the traffic light timing is such as it is, because the smart guys responsible for the set-up had wanted to discourage the use of Valley as an access route to Home Depot, Target, Best Buy, etc..

I think that the problem of using Springfield, west of Tuscan Road; is largely one of perception. As in "I hate driving on Springfield".

Another's perception of the intersection, may, of course, vary.

Happy motoring.

TomR

 I think I see your problem.

I did not use the correct terminology - he pulled all the way to the left as though he was going to park along the left side of the road facing the wrong direction.  If I had not stopped, I would have continued on and ended up being hit by him as he turned right into a driveway.  I was not passing him, he had moved out of his lane.

Tom_R said:

EBennett said:

I was thinking about this exchange this morning when the less-than-skilled driver in front of me moved all the way to the left side of Jefferson and then put on his turn signal to turn right into his driveway.  If I had not thought of this thread, I might have tried to pass him on the right and been hit.

 I had been under the impression that it was unlawful to pass on the right, unless there were multiple, and clearly defined, lanes. Is there a section of Jefferson that has such lane markings?

EBennett, you were tempted to pass someone on the right, someone with a right turn signal on? And you're calling the other driver unskilled? Here's my suggestion. Don't pass someone on the side where the blinker is blinking. It is simple and effective at preventing collisions. It's a skill we should all aspire to. Think of a blinker as saying, "Don't pass me here."

I've found that the most effective way to reduce the stresses of driving is to reduce my driving.

When someone pulls to the left to make a right turn, they are unskilled.

ETA: Unless they're driving a tractor trailer.