The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Listening to voters’ concerns
mtierney said:
Without confirmation — he only saw the same photos on TV that we all did — Biden spoke out loudly, for the world to hear, that the border control officers were whipping immigrants! He has not since equivocated his reaction, nor has he walked back his condemnation of the U.S. border control.
Tough talking to Americans doing their job on American soil. What has he said about the Taliban take-over?
Did Trump ever talk about how many civilians were killed by drone strikes while he was president? There were 176 drone strikes carried out in the first 2 years of Trump's term.
Military Times writes about one of these strikes in Yemen:
Further east, in Hadramawt province, drones carried out several consecutive days of strikes in March, targeting vehicles on a main highway. Some of the strikes killed al-Qaida militants, according to rights activists in the area.
But others struck down cars carrying people who had fled to the area from a nearby province, Jawf, to escape fighting. A drone's missile on March 5 killed a 10-year-old boy, Ammer al-Mahshami, and wounded the driver, according to three relatives. Four days later, another car was hit, killing six men and boys, including a 14-year-old and an 18-year-old, travelling to a funeral.
Saleh al-Wahir, the brother of one of the dead, was in a car behind them. “I saw it before my eyes,” he said of the blast. “Bodies were ripped apart.” A report from the Jawf Human Rights office concluded the men were civilians.
Survivors are rare. Adel al-Mandhari recounted how his car was thrown through the air by the blast of a drone’s missile. He lost his legs and an arm and was burned all over his body. The four others in the car — his brother, uncle, cousin and another relative — were all killed. None were connected to al-Qaida, said al-Mandhari, a civil servant. Two other relatives and the three rights workers in Bayda confirmed his account.
But sure, keep posting your cartoons.
ml1 said:
nohero said:
I have no idea what the **** the point of that reply is. It doesn't contradict any fact I listed.
[Edited to add] When addressing material from the congenitally dishonest conservative media, whether or not in cartoon form, the "f word" is often appropriate.
[Edited again to add] Conservative talking points vs. reality
and Joe Biden has blood dripping off his hands.
And they've attached the Obama logo to the Border Patrol Enforcing the Law, like it's Obama's law, for some reason.
mtierney said:
And, so it begins again….what, a month or so after we abandoned our 20 year long war to “help” the Afghanistan people?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/world/asia/taliban-women-kabul-university.html
President Trump probably shouldn't have handed them the country, I guess.
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
ml1 said:
I mean, what kind of person would believe that being against this is a vote in favor of "open borders"
Immigrant Detainees Say They Were Sexually Abused In CBP Custody
OMG 20 minutes you railed against straw men, now you trot out a straw man for the ages.
no it's not. It's an example of the things "the leftists" are against. The kinds of things you seem to think mean open borders.
Please. Your post is the ultimate straw man, ie an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
Of course "being against sexual abuse by CBP means open borders" is easier to defeat than is "being against physically stopping border crossers means open borders". And the latter was my argument; the former wasn't.
Straw man central.
who is against physically stopping people?
Well Joe Biden said he promises agents will pay, and all they were doing was stopping people. So, based on his comments, it seems Joe Biden is opposed to physically stopping people.
drummerboy said:
Smedley said:
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
ml1 said:
I mean, what kind of person would believe that being against this is a vote in favor of "open borders"
Immigrant Detainees Say They Were Sexually Abused In CBP Custody
OMG 20 minutes you railed against straw men, now you trot out a straw man for the ages.
no it's not. It's an example of the things "the leftists" are against. The kinds of things you seem to think mean open borders.
Please. Your post is the ultimate straw man, ie an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
Of course "being against sexual abuse by CBP means open borders" is easier to defeat than is "being against physically stopping border crossers means open borders". And the latter was my argument; the former wasn't.
Straw man central.
ml1 posted an example of bad behavior on the part of the CPB, because part of this discussion is about whether CPB needs reform.
how is that "an intentionally misrepresented proposition"?
oh, it's not.
ml1 saying "what kind of person would believe that being against (sexual abuse by the CPB) is a vote in favor of "open borders" was a misrepresented proposition because it was argument that I didn't make.
"A straw man argument is a misrepresentation of an opinion or viewpoint, designed to be as easy as possible to refute."
I realize that team allegiances on here often preclude you from seeing logic, but allegiances and political differences aside, ml1's CPB reference was a quintessential, by-the-book straw man.
Getting back to the horse mess, there is this commentary—
Smedley said:
Well Joe Biden said he promises agents will pay, and all they were doing was stopping people. So, based on his comments, it seems Joe Biden is opposed to physically stopping people.
You missed the whole factual background, apparently. The guy being "physically stopped" was bringing food to his fellow migrants, who were unable to proceed further into the U.S. beyond staying under the bridge. He wasn't going anywhere else.
nohero said:
You missed the whole factual background, apparently. The guy being "physically stopped" was bringing food to his fellow migrants, who were unable to proceed further into the U.S. beyond staying under the bridge. He wasn't going anywhere else.
No one missed the plastic wrapped take out in the hand of a migrant returning to the bridge. Going for shopping breaks are permitted during illegal entry into U.S.? There are time-outs?
As Charlie Brown says, “Good grief!”
https://nypost.com/2021/09/28/tragic-cost-of-bidens-afghanistan-lies-goodwin/
For those reluctant to open links, here is an excerpt…
“Stephanopoulos was skeptical, and according to the ABC transcript, tried again. “So no one told — your military advisers did not tell you, ‘No, we should just keep 2,500 troops. It’s been a stable situation for the last several years. We can do that. We can continue to do that’?”
“Biden repeated his denial, but added a caveat: “No. No one said that to me that I can recall.”
mtierney said:
https://nypost.com/2021/09/28/tragic-cost-of-bidens-afghanistan-lies-goodwin/
Do you even understand what T**** initiated? Do you understand how we got here and what could of happened had we stayed?
mtierney said:
No one missed the plastic wrapped take out in the hand of a migrant returning to the bridge. Going for shopping breaks are permitted during illegal entry into U.S.? There are time-outs?
As Charlie Brown says, “Good grief!”
While technically, the Texas side of the Rio Grande is America, they were still on the Mexico side of the fence, and on the Mexico side of the Del Rio Port of Entry. It's a grey zone. You probably don't believe that, so here's an example from El Paso.
“I’ve been crying since I got here, in hopes this is just a bad dream and we’re going to wake up. But we’re not. It’s really hard because our kids need us up there,” said Diaz, a resident of Kentucky who came to El Paso with her husband last week for a cosmetic procedure.
While waiting for the appointment, the couple decided to meet with their Mexican relatives. But the family members cannot come over from Juarez, and Diaz and her husband are on the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program and banned from leaving the country without advanced parole.
The couple and their relatives agreed to meet halfway up the Paso del Norte International Bridge, with everyone staying on their side of the border. Before walking up, they say they asked a uniformed officer at the foot of the bridge if that would be okay and he assented. Things would be OK. Or so they thought.
But ports of entry, much like arrival inspections areas of international airports around the world, are part of a legal gray area.
On Sept. 9, U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers at the bridge told Diaz and her husband Francisco Garcia that, in their view, they had left the United States. The fact that they’re DACA recipients and allegedly traveled abroad made them ineligible to re-enter the United States. Perhaps ever.
With their belongings back at an El Paso hotel and their children in their Lexington, Kentucky, home, the couple sits in the living room of their Juarez relatives’ home, devastated.
Your cut-and-dried world doesn't exist, mtierney. You're being lied to again.
jamie said:
Do you even understand what T**** initiated? Do you understand how we got here and what could of happened had we stayed?
TDS is not an excuse for Biden’s memory loss.
Smedley said:
Well Joe Biden said he promises agents will pay, and all they were doing was stopping people. So, based on his comments, it seems Joe Biden is opposed to physically stopping people.
Please. He made that comment based upon seeing a photo of a mounted agent dragging a person by his shirt and whipping him with the reins. It was about the manner of the stop, not the stop itself.
Think for just one second. If he was against stopping them at the border, why are they being deported now?
BTW, I've been in that legal situation. After I was married, it took nearly two years to get my green card, and during that time I wasn't allowed to leave the US without advance parole, which is a document from (then, the INS) USCIS allowing for travel to a specific destination during a specific time. The filing fee for this is currently $575 per person.
And that's why I honeymooned in La Jolla in April.
jimmurphy said:
Smedley said:
Well Joe Biden said he promises agents will pay, and all they were doing was stopping people. So, based on his comments, it seems Joe Biden is opposed to physically stopping people.
Please. He made that comment based upon seeing a photo of a mounted agent dragging a person by his shirt and whipping him with the reins. It was about the manner of the stop, not the stop itself.
Think for just one second. If he was against stopping them at the border, why are they being deported now?
There was no whipping. And I don't think there was "dragging" by the shirt either, it was grabbing by the shirt. Isn't grabbing by the shirt an acceptable way of physically stopping someone from crossing the border? If that's not, what is? Or, should physically stopping someone from crossing the border be disallowed?
Granted the photos looked bad and Biden was entirely correct in showing empathy and humanity. But he should have said something measured, like, "border security is important and our agents do a tough job on the front line. But there will be an investigation of the BP's methods and the specifics of what was happening when those photos were taken." Not an unequivocal "I promise you people will pay". Which to my knowledge he has not walked back at all.
mtierney said:
jamie said:
Do you even understand what T**** initiated? Do you understand how we got here and what could of happened had we stayed?
TDS is not an excuse for Biden’s memory loss.
It was a bit more then TDS - it's pure fact - T**** actually wanted the Taliban to meet in Camp David.
Had we stayed and the Taliban staged a major defensive on our troops - since we weren't abiding by the "Trump/Taliban peace accord". You would be here blaming President Biden for not withdrawing sooner.
I know I have Pompeo DS also - please defend the following meeting and explain why he never brought the Afghan government in on the talks?
Smedley said:
There was no whipping. And I don't think there was "dragging" by the shirt either, it was grabbing by the shirt. Isn't grabbing by the shirt an acceptable way of physically stopping someone from crossing the border? If that's not, what is? Or, should physically stopping someone from crossing the border be disallowed?
Granted the photos looked bad and Biden was entirely correct in showing empathy and humanity. But he should have said something measured, like, "border security is important and our agents do a tough job on the front line. But there will be an investigation of the BP's methods and the specifics of what was happening when those photos were taken." Not an unequivocal "I promise you people will pay". Which to my knowledge he has not walked back at all.
Fine, he should have said something more measured - agreed. He reacted viscerally because the photos "looked bad."
That doesn't mean he is against stopping illegal border crossings.
Can we move on? Or are you going to tirelessly continue to pick nits like you do on virtually every topic here?
mtierney said:
https://nypost.com/2021/09/28/tragic-cost-of-bidens-afghanistan-lies-goodwin/
For those reluctant to open links, here is an excerpt…
“Stephanopoulos was skeptical, and according to the ABC transcript, tried again. “So no one told — your military advisers did not tell you, ‘No, we should just keep 2,500 troops. It’s been a stable situation for the last several years. We can do that. We can continue to do that’?”
“Biden repeated his denial, but added a caveat: “No. No one said that to me that I can recall.”
"Lefty" "Woke" "Never Trump" "CRT Treason" General Milley was appointed Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff by President Trump over the advice of his Defense Secretary and the then-current Chairman. They had another candidate lined up, and Milley wasn't even interviewing for that job. Trump chose him because he liked him, hated his Defense Secretary and thought their pick was too "cerebral".
But sure, keep posting your cartoons.
Smedley said:
I realize that team allegiances on here often preclude you from seeing logic …
I need to change my avatar. It’s an irrationality giveaway.
Smedley said:
jimmurphy said:
Smedley said:
Well Joe Biden said he promises agents will pay, and all they were doing was stopping people. So, based on his comments, it seems Joe Biden is opposed to physically stopping people.
Please. He made that comment based upon seeing a photo of a mounted agent dragging a person by his shirt and whipping him with the reins. It was about the manner of the stop, not the stop itself.
Think for just one second. If he was against stopping them at the border, why are they being deported now?
There was no whipping. And I don't think there was "dragging" by the shirt either, it was grabbing by the shirt. Isn't grabbing by the shirt an acceptable way of physically stopping someone from crossing the border? If that's not, what is? Or, should physically stopping someone from crossing the border be disallowed?
...
straw man? No one, including Biden, has made that argument.
jimmurphy said:
Fine, he should have said something more measured - agreed. He reacted viscerally because the photos "looked bad."
That doesn't mean he is against stopping illegal border crossings.
Can we move on? Or are you going to tirelessly continue to pick nits like you do on virtually every topic here?
Smedley has to keep posting so I can be the first one to post on page 1000.
Smedley said:
There was no whipping. And I don't think there was "dragging" by the shirt either, it was grabbing by the shirt. Isn't grabbing by the shirt an acceptable way of physically stopping someone from crossing the border? If that's not, what is? Or, should physically stopping someone from crossing the border be disallowed?
It's a photo. There's also video.
Also, with respect to what the man on foot was "stopped" from doing, to repeat -
nohero said:
Smedley said:
Well Joe Biden said he promises agents will pay, and all they were doing was stopping people. So, based on his comments, it seems Joe Biden is opposed to physically stopping people.
You missed the whole factual background, apparently. The guy being "physically stopped" was bringing food to his fellow migrants, who were unable to proceed further into the U.S. beyond staying under the bridge. He wasn't going anywhere else.
mtierney said:
nohero said:
You missed the whole factual background, apparently. The guy being "physically stopped" was bringing food to his fellow migrants, who were unable to proceed further into the U.S. beyond staying under the bridge. He wasn't going anywhere else.
No one missed the plastic wrapped take out in the hand of a migrant returning to the bridge. Going for shopping breaks are permitted during illegal entry into U.S.? There are time-outs?
As Charlie Brown says, “Good grief!”
You're right. First, these fucking people want to cross into the U.S., and now they want to eat.
Apologies to everyone else for the language, but at some point there's no other way to respond to endless dishonest right-wing garbage, and fucking racist cartoons that use "woke" and "CRT" as epithets.
nohero said:
Smedley said:
There was no whipping. And I don't think there was "dragging" by the shirt either, it was grabbing by the shirt. Isn't grabbing by the shirt an acceptable way of physically stopping someone from crossing the border? If that's not, what is? Or, should physically stopping someone from crossing the border be disallowed?
It's a photo. There's also video.
Also, with respect to what the man on foot was "stopped" from doing, to repeat -
nohero said:
Smedley said:
Well Joe Biden said he promises agents will pay, and all they were doing was stopping people. So, based on his comments, it seems Joe Biden is opposed to physically stopping people.
You missed the whole factual background, apparently. The guy being "physically stopped" was bringing food to his fellow migrants, who were unable to proceed further into the U.S. beyond staying under the bridge. He wasn't going anywhere else.
Ok, so how should the agents on horseback "pay"?
Firing? pension forfeiture? Jail time?
Let's hear it.
drummerboy said:
Smedley said:
jimmurphy said:
Smedley said:
Well Joe Biden said he promises agents will pay, and all they were doing was stopping people. So, based on his comments, it seems Joe Biden is opposed to physically stopping people.
Please. He made that comment based upon seeing a photo of a mounted agent dragging a person by his shirt and whipping him with the reins. It was about the manner of the stop, not the stop itself.
Think for just one second. If he was against stopping them at the border, why are they being deported now?
There was no whipping. And I don't think there was "dragging" by the shirt either, it was grabbing by the shirt. Isn't grabbing by the shirt an acceptable way of physically stopping someone from crossing the border? If that's not, what is? Or, should physically stopping someone from crossing the border be disallowed?
...
straw man? No one, including Biden, has made that argument.
All the world's a straw man.
I'll give you that every single comment I've ever made on here is a straw man, if you're ok that ml1 made the one straw man argument I've highlighted. I'm happy with that trade.
Smedley said:
nohero said:
Smedley said:
There was no whipping. And I don't think there was "dragging" by the shirt either, it was grabbing by the shirt. Isn't grabbing by the shirt an acceptable way of physically stopping someone from crossing the border? If that's not, what is? Or, should physically stopping someone from crossing the border be disallowed?
It's a photo. There's also video.
Also, with respect to what the man on foot was "stopped" from doing, to repeat -
nohero said:
Smedley said:
Well Joe Biden said he promises agents will pay, and all they were doing was stopping people. So, based on his comments, it seems Joe Biden is opposed to physically stopping people.
You missed the whole factual background, apparently. The guy being "physically stopped" was bringing food to his fellow migrants, who were unable to proceed further into the U.S. beyond staying under the bridge. He wasn't going anywhere else.
Ok, so how should the agents on horseback "pay"?
Firing? pension forfeiture? Jail time?
Let's hear it.
I don't know what the disciplinary structure is for that law enforcement agency, when addressing allegations of excessive force. Do you think he should get a "great job, keep it up" instead?
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People accuse mtierney of being racist, of being xenophobic, etc, but I feel that gives her way too much credit as it suggests she has actual beliefs.