The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Listening to voters’ concerns
ridski said:
drummerboy said:
is she calling us 1%ers?
I THINK SO
You folks must be doing very well indeed!
Nationwide, it takes an annual income of $538,926 to be among the top 1%. Among the approximately 1.4 million taxpayers who meet this threshold, the average annual income is about $1.7 million – about 20 times the average income of $82,535 among all taxpayers.
Depending on how that’s counted, I’m not sure I even make it to average.
ridski said:
Depending on how that’s counted, I’m not sure I even make it to average.
even if the group were in fact all 1 percenters, mtierney's comment clearly mocks the idea that people can have empathy for people not like themselves.
Pretty cynical and nasty if you ask me.
ml1 said:
even if the group were in fact all 1 percenters, mtierney's comment clearly mocks the idea that people can have empathy for people not like themselves.
Pretty cynical and nasty if you ask me.
Empathy is a "sin" for today's GOP, since Ayn Rand is one of their prophets.
In the interest of time, before this is posted and/or a cartoon is posted about it, this is a "phony outrage" and didn't happen like this at all.
nohero said:
In the interest of time, before this is posted and/or a cartoon is posted about it, this is a "phony outrage" and didn't happen like this at all.
The right wing fallback position is, of course, "It doesn't matter, the **** had it coming to them" -
Right-wing media now justifying their false claims against the US women's soccer team because "a huge percentage of American sports fans totally think it’s believable" and it's "unfortunately a sign of where we are" that "so many of us just presume that level of disrespect." pic.twitter.com/Q0s0RLkTj6
— Justin Baragona (@justinbaragona) July 6, 2021
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
For someone who claims to not mind being considered far left, you really seem to mind being considered far left.
Please advise, what is “not accurate” about considering MOL far left, based on the following?
https://fortune.com/2018/10/22/far-right-americans-just-six-person-study-says/
“the study identified 8% of Americans as “Progressive Activists” on the far left, focused on equity, fairness, and the direction American is taking. Compared to those on the right, this group is more secular and urban, and rejects traditional authority while trying to rectify “historical injustices.”
The way I see it, the possibilities are:
1. Is the underlying study not accurate?
2. Is Fortune’s article about the study not accurate?
3. Is it not accurate to say that the consensus beliefs on this forum, broadly speaking, align with the focus of the group as outlined above?4. Other? (Please specify).
Many people have answered this for you several times. If you're too stubborn or too [whatever] to get it, I'm not going to bother answering you again.
Only answer I recall from you is that one can't be far left if there exists farther left, which I critiqued as a suboptimal argument in the other thread.
Smedley said:
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
For someone who claims to not mind being considered far left, you really seem to mind being considered far left.
Please advise, what is “not accurate” about considering MOL far left, based on the following?
https://fortune.com/2018/10/22/far-right-americans-just-six-person-study-says/
“the study identified 8% of Americans as “Progressive Activists” on the far left, focused on equity, fairness, and the direction American is taking. Compared to those on the right, this group is more secular and urban, and rejects traditional authority while trying to rectify “historical injustices.”
The way I see it, the possibilities are:
1. Is the underlying study not accurate?
2. Is Fortune’s article about the study not accurate?
3. Is it not accurate to say that the consensus beliefs on this forum, broadly speaking, align with the focus of the group as outlined above?4. Other? (Please specify).
Many people have answered this for you several times. If you're too stubborn or too [whatever] to get it, I'm not going to bother answering you again.
Only answer I recall from you is that one can't be far left if there exists farther left, which I critiqued as a suboptimal argument in the other thread.
you should broaden your horizons. Since you seem fixated on a study you found on the internet that used the term "far left," I figured this is as good a response as any.
From https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020 :
.
ml1 said:
you should broaden your horizons. Since you seem fixated on a study you found on the internet that used the term "far left," I figured this is as good a response as any.
From https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020 :
.
That's not a very good chart. Bernie is more "authoritarian left" than anything.
ml1 said:
you should broaden your horizons. Since you seem fixated on a study you found on the internet that used the term "far left," I figured this is as good a response as any.
From the site: “Narrowing the standard political goalposts to accommodate merely the range of mainstream opinion within any given society at a given time is not only historically uninstructive; it is unscientific.”
Historic instruction aside, mainstream opinion within a given society at a given time is sometimes the context that someone chooses to discuss. That chart is talking past such a person.
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
For someone who claims to not mind being considered far left, you really seem to mind being considered far left.
Please advise, what is “not accurate” about considering MOL far left, based on the following?
https://fortune.com/2018/10/22/far-right-americans-just-six-person-study-says/
“the study identified 8% of Americans as “Progressive Activists” on the far left, focused on equity, fairness, and the direction American is taking. Compared to those on the right, this group is more secular and urban, and rejects traditional authority while trying to rectify “historical injustices.”
The way I see it, the possibilities are:
1. Is the underlying study not accurate?
2. Is Fortune’s article about the study not accurate?
3. Is it not accurate to say that the consensus beliefs on this forum, broadly speaking, align with the focus of the group as outlined above?4. Other? (Please specify).
Many people have answered this for you several times. If you're too stubborn or too [whatever] to get it, I'm not going to bother answering you again.
Only answer I recall from you is that one can't be far left if there exists farther left, which I critiqued as a suboptimal argument in the other thread.
you should broaden your horizons. Since you seem fixated on a study you found on the internet that used the term "far left," I figured this is as good a response as any.
From https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020 :
.
Please note I have previously stated that while it is my opinion that MOL is on balance far left, the argument that MOL is not far left is a reasonable one.
Your pushback is the usual "inaccurate", "flawed", "you don't get it", etc. You know, the "I'm objectively right and you're objectively wrong" open-minded worldview that makes this board so endearing.
Smedley said:
Only answer I recall from you is that one can't be far left if there exists farther left, which I critiqued as a suboptimal argument in the other thread.
Smedley: Well, this is the end of the road.
MOL: But the road goes on for another 200 miles.
Smedley: Don't tell me I can't be at the end of the road if there's another 200 miles of road, that's a suboptimal argument.
MOL:
I’m on the Lincoln Highway. The rest of the road is in Scandinavia.
mtierney said:
Far be it for me to disappoint..
While income inequality is a fundamental component of the U.S. capitalist economy, a recent poll conducted by the Pew Research Center found that 61% of Americans think that it has gone too far. Today, the top 1% of earners in the United States account for about 20% of the country’s total income annually. Meanwhile, the lowest-earning quarter of Americans account for just 3.7% of income every year.
Nationwide, it takes an annual income of $538,926 to be among the top 1%. Among the approximately 1.4 million taxpayers who meet this threshold, the average annual income is about $1.7 million – about 20 times the average income of $82,535 among all taxpayers. Wealth, however, is far more concentrated in certain parts of the country than in others, and as a result, the amount it takes to be among the top 1% in each state varies considerably.
New Jersey
• Top 1% earn at least: $701,005 (4th highest)
• Avg. income of the top 1%: $2,002,544 (7th highest)
• Share of all income earned by the 1%: 19.6% (10th highest)
• Avg. income among all tax filers: $102,186 (3rd highest)
New Jersey is one of only three states where the average annual income among taxpayers is over $100,000. It takes an annual income of over $700,000 to rank among the state's top 1% of earners. Additionally, the top 1% cumulatively account for nearly 20% of all income in the state.
I know I don't make nearly as much as others here on MOL, but I doubt anyone here's reaching a half-million annual salary. Of course, that doesn't matter, because as ml1 and nohero pointed out, making money doesn't mean you have to lose your empathy.
Nor should we discount the life experiences that got us to the point where we are today. Some of us have waited tables for minimum wage plus tips, or worked in warehouses, retail, factories, and farms/ranches. Some here have lived in public housing, or in crappy apartments in the worst roach-ridden neighborhoods, and yes, I know at least one MOLer who has been homeless.
So what might be"sadly funny" to you is just made up nonsense to us. An imaginary holier-than-thou strawman so flimsy it's practically see-through.
And don't get me started about how ridiculous this statement is "college grads who took a gap year on a stimulus income".
So your qualifying grad student is going take a year off because they got up to $1800? Who tells you this stuff? Seriously. You're living in an alternative universe.
Smedley said:
Please note I have previously stated that while it is my opinion that MOL is on balance far left, the argument that MOL is not far left is a reasonable one.
Your pushback is the usual "inaccurate", "flawed", "you don't get it", etc. You know, the "I'm objectively right and you're objectively wrong" open-minded worldview that makes this board so endearing.
but you ARE wrong. And stubborn.
DaveSchmidt said:
From the site: “Narrowing the standard political goalposts to accommodate merely the range of mainstream opinion within any given society at a given time is not only historically uninstructive; it is unscientific.”
Historic instruction aside, mainstream opinion within a given society at a given time is sometimes the context that someone chooses to discuss. That chart is talking past such a person.
of course it is. I know I'm addressing this guy but I can't help myself.
Some old and something new to chew on….why is the media, almost exclusively, playing dumb, in regard to the Biden & Son dirty doings? There certainly looks as though there is a there, there.
With illegal migration from Central and South America, Europe, et al, entering via Mexico, this needs to be investigated honestly— suspicion begets mistrust. Truth makes way for trust.
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
Please note I have previously stated that while it is my opinion that MOL is on balance far left, the argument that MOL is not far left is a reasonable one.
Your pushback is the usual "inaccurate", "flawed", "you don't get it", etc. You know, the "I'm objectively right and you're objectively wrong" open-minded worldview that makes this board so endearing.
but you ARE wrong. And stubborn.
Just wondering -- do you ever get tired of winning? Like MAGA Nation was supposed to under Trump.
As a moderate on a left / far left board, I fully expect disagreement. But it goes beyond differences of opinion -- it's always that my argument, in your mind, is objectively flawed, which by definition means I'm "wrong", and you're "right".
I must be "wrong" 20 times now in your mind, and yet to be right. You're undefeated, of course. But come on, doesn't even a blind squirrel find a nut once in a while?
Anyway, IMO it's a remarkable statistical anomaly. A 5-sigma event perhaps. But on this board, it's Wednesday.
Smedley said:
As a moderate on a left / far left board, I fully expect disagreement.
Your hellfire-retardant suit is ready at the cleaners, sir.
Smedley said:
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
Please note I have previously stated that while it is my opinion that MOL is on balance far left, the argument that MOL is not far left is a reasonable one.
Your pushback is the usual "inaccurate", "flawed", "you don't get it", etc. You know, the "I'm objectively right and you're objectively wrong" open-minded worldview that makes this board so endearing.
but you ARE wrong. And stubborn.
Just wondering -- do you ever get tired of winning? Like MAGA Nation was supposed to under Trump.
As a moderate on a left / far left board, I fully expect disagreement. But it goes beyond differences of opinion -- it's always that my argument, in your mind, is objectively flawed, which by definition means I'm "wrong", and you're "right".
I must be "wrong" 20 times now in your mind, and yet to be right. You're undefeated, of course. But come on, doesn't even a blind squirrel find a nut once in a while?
Anyway, IMO it's a remarkable statistical anomaly. A 5-sigma event perhaps. But on this board, it's Wednesday.
it's not about "winning." The fact that you look at it that way explains your stubbornness. If you post an opinion and it's based on little more than your gut, don't you expect to be challenged? Why are you on a discussion board then?
ml1 said:
If you post an opinion and it's based on little more than your gut, don't you expect to be challenged? Why are you on a discussion board then?
“I've got to say this is the kind of thing that has me posting less here lately. Having to explain this kind of thing to people whom I believe know what the reference means. It's tiring.”
Wrote the guy whose gut said Biden should do an LBJ.
I’m happy you rested up.
DaveSchmidt said:
ml1 said:
If you post an opinion and it's based on little more than your gut, don't you expect to be challenged? Why are you on a discussion board then?
“I've got to say this is the kind of thing that has me posting less here lately. Having to explain this kind of thing to people whom I believe know what the reference means. It's tiring.”
Wrote the guy whose gut said Biden should do an LBJ.
I’m happy you rested up.
yeah, I wrote that. And more recently I've written this:
ml1 said:DaveSchmidt said:
All it is, as I see it, is Smedley opining that MOL commenters are farther left, in the context of big-picture national politics, than we’re willing to acknowledge. Agree or disagree or consider the whole argument irrelevant, but if I were someone who had thought that Biden couldn’t win last November, I’d be rethinking something.
I assume you're referring to people like me. I did in fact rethink a lot of things I wrote before the election and wrote about it on this board.
I'm just not in favor of scales and surveys that leave out metrics that would define a real far left person to create a measurement in which the likes of Elizabeth Warren becomes an extremist. It's how the Overton window keeps moving to the right in this country. If a survey can't distinguish between Warren and a real communist for classification purposes, how valid or useful is it?
if I was as much of an arrogant **** as you apparently think I am, I wouldn't rethink any of my writing, and I certainly wouldn't post about it publicly. So there's that at least. You may be right and maybe I am an arrogant ****. But I do admit to being wrong. If you look you can even find me posting apologies to people if I misrepresented their point (even mtierney).
ml1 said:
yeah, I wrote that. And more recently I've written this:
Yes, you did. I went back and reread some of your rethinking on the election. Publicly, it was mostly of the “Who knew?” (the pandemic, Biden’s post-primary embrace of Sanders) variety, plus credit for acknowledging the potential for anti-Trump sentiment.
It has nothing to do with arrogant ****dom. Challenges, as you said, are par for the course. I assume we’re all capable of taking them for what they’re worth, without rancor.
DaveSchmidt said:
ml1 said:
yeah, I wrote that. And more recently I've written this:
Yes, you did. I went back and reread some of your rethinking on the election. Publicly, it was mostly of the “Who knew?” (the pandemic, Biden’s post-primary embrace of Sanders) variety, plus credit for acknowledging the potential for anti-Trump sentiment.
It has nothing to do with arrogant ****dom. Challenges, as you said, are par for the course. I assume we’re all capable of taking them for what they’re worth, without rancor.
it's not that hard to find posts where I admit that I was wrong about something, or where I apologize to someone. So it seems kind of unfair for you to pull a different comment out and make it seem like it's my default when I chide someone for being too stubborn to admit that he might be using a term incorrectly.
Is this what Americans want? What might be next on the government agenda for compliance?
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I think she is calling me old, which reminds me for some reason of a pot and a kettle.