The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Listening to voters’ concerns

https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/02/jim-jordans-name-comes-up-during-statehouse-testimony-on-osu-abuse-victims-bill.html

He also said Jordan called him repeatedly in July 2018, after media outlets quoted his brother, Michael DiSabato, saying Strauss’ abuse was common knowledge to those surrounding the wrestling program, including Jordan.

“Jim Jordan called me crying, groveling… begging me to go against my brother…That’s the kind of cover-up that’s going on there,” he said.

[...]

A university investigation released last May concluded Strauss as an OSU athletic department doctor abused at least 177 young men between 1979 and 1998. Strauss was never charged and killed himself in 2005.

RealityForAll said:

 Nice obfuscation.   Real question:  why does France not address pedophilia in a serious manner?

 I think the more important/relevant question for us in the here and now is why certain members of our own community tolerate pedophilia when it is committed by members of their clergy or political tribe.

RealityForAll said:

 Nice obfuscation.   Real question:  why does France not address pedophilia in a serious manner?

 it's not an obfuscation, it's an observation.  

And mtierney did not ask your question, which is actually answered in the article she linked to.  France is indeed starting to address pedophilia and other sexually based offenses.  That's why the author in question is facing charges.

Klinker said:

 I think the more important/relevant question for us in the here and now is why certain members of our own community tolerate pedophilia when it is committed by members of their clergy or political tribe.

 that too.

RealityForAll said:

 Nice obfuscation.   Real question:  why does France not address pedophilia in a serious manner?

 You mean, like it says in the article being discussed? "Mr. Matzneff has been summoned to appear in a Paris court on Wednesday, accused of actively promoting pedophilia through his books. Mr. Matzneff could face up to five years in prison"

nohero said:

 You mean, like it says in the article being discussed? "Mr. Matzneff has been summoned to appear in a Paris court on Wednesday, accused of actively promoting pedophilia through his books. Mr. Matzneff could face up to five years in prison"

 it's easier to make a snide response to me than to read a whole newspaper article.

I thought i’d Heard it all — but some of the responses to the link I posted re an avowed pedophile seem to offer excuses! Not as bad as others, etc etc. 

Let me repeat the difference with the French author: He extols pedophilia, reaps the profits, and instills his views into French society. 

Is no one in France “woke”? 

Do not blame the messenger — unless you think the NYT is wrong.

mtierney said:

Is no one in France “woke”? 

Do not blame the messenger — unless you think the NYT is wrong.

nohero said:

You mean, like it says in the article being discussed? "Mr. Matzneff has been summoned to appear in a Paris court on Wednesday, accused of actively promoting pedophilia through his books. Mr. Matzneff could face up to five years in prison"

mtierney said:

I thought i’d Heard it all — but some of the responses to the link I posted re an avowed pedophile seem to offer excuses! Not as bad as others, etc etc. 

Literally no one is saying this.  What some people are pointing out is the bald face hypocrisy of you feigning concern about this when you have been, for years, an unrepentant apologist for the Church's decades long policy of facilitating clerical pedophiles.

Klinker said:

RealityForAll said:

 Nice obfuscation.   Real question:  why does France not address pedophilia in a serious manner?

 I think the more important/relevant question for us in the here and now is why certain members of our own community tolerate pedophilia when it is committed by members of their clergy or political tribe.

 Come on man, that is not important at all.  

Trolls only know how to derail a discussion — which they don’t bother to read first. That’s an easy task for those so full of hate, it spews effortlessly from them. Subject matter? Forgetaboutit!  

Matzneff has apparently been engaged in pedophilia for more than 30 years.  And,he writes about pedophilia in his books and celebrates it.  Being brought to the dock after more than 30 years of pedophilia is the definition of "justice too long delayed is justice denied."  Hopefully, you (nohero) are not going to disavow that principle (namely, justice too long delayed is justice denied).

============================================================

Link1: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/27/french-publishing-boss-claims-she-was-groomed-at-age-14-by-acclaimed-author

Brief except from above link1:

The French literary world is in shock after a leading publishing director, Vanessa Springora, alleged in a new book that she was groomed into a damaging relationship from the age of 14 with an acclaimed author who was 50.

Springora’s book, Le Consentement (Consent), will be published in France in January and has already been met with critical acclaim and sent shockwaves through the close-knit world of Paris intellectuals. It has been described as a #MeToo moment for France’s literary circles.

Springora, 47, the head of the Julliard publishing house, claims that in the 1980s she met the author Gabriel Matzneff at a dinner with her mother when she was 13 and he was 50.

She was a vulnerable teenager whose parents had been through a difficult divorce, she writes. He pursued her with letters and followed her in the street, and she began a relationship with him when she was 14, according to the book.

================================================

Link2:  https://nypost.com/2020/01/10/why-france-celebrated-a-well-known-pedophile/

Brief except from above link2:

How could a country that prides itself on being so enlightened celebrate an ogre? After all, we’re not talking about a Jeffrey Epstein, as horrible as he was. The well-connected billionaire spent vast sums to keep his sexual abuses at least somewhat secret. Matzneff not only confessed to his crimes, his confessions were celebrated as literary contributions [emphasis added].

The answer stems in part from the fact that Matzneff was a “Child of ’68” — i.e., a product of the left-wing “May 68” movement that shook France in the 1960s. These radicals subscribed to the idea that anything smacking of traditionalism or bourgeois morality was backward [emphasis added].

Conventional sexual morality was part of the same rotten edifice as imperialism and racism. True liberation meant not just freedom from, say, capitalism, but also from the old-fashioned view that sex with kids was wrong. “It’s forbidden to forbid” was a rallying cry [emphasis added].

==================================================

nohero posting of 02122020 at 3:54pm:

nohero said:

mtierney said:

Is no one in France “woke”? 

Do not blame the messenger — unless you think the NYT is wrong.

 

nohero said:

You mean, like it says in the article being discussed? "Mr. Matzneff has been summoned to appear in a Paris court on Wednesday, accused of actively promoting pedophilia through his books. Mr. Matzneff could face up to five years in prison"

=========================================================

nohero posting of 07272019 at 10:59am quoting MLK: "justice too long delayed is justice denied."

nohero said:

ml1 said:
saying people need to be patient with racism is pretty much the height of white privilege. I know a lot of people hate that term but there are a lot of instances when it applies.

Dr. King wrote down some thoughts about that while sitting in a jail in Birmingham in April of 1963. An excerpt:

We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was "well timed" in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This "Wait" has almost always meant "Never." We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that "justice too long delayed is justice denied."

RFA — thanks for refocusing on the topic! 

One sip at a time....

mtierney said:

RFA — thanks for refocusing on the topic! 

One sip at a time....

 if either of you had originally asked the question "why did it take France so long to address this issue?" you might have received different responses.  Instead you both originally asked a question that was answered in the article.

Klinker said:

mtierney said:

I thought i’d Heard it all — but some of the responses to the link I posted re an avowed pedophile seem to offer excuses! Not as bad as others, etc etc. 

Literally no one is saying this.  What some people are pointing out is the bald face hypocrisy of you feigning concern about this when you have been, for years, an unrepentant apologist for the Church's decades long policy of facilitating clerical pedophiles.

 Klinker why is mtierney responsible for all the wrongs of the RC church (especially aberrant priests)?

Why don't you give it a rest and instead focus on other groups with pedophile scandals (or who are pedophile advocates) such as:

1. Boy Scouts of America.  See:  https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boy-scouts-america-have-pedophile-epidemic-are-hiding-hundreds-its-n1039661

2. Jehovah Witnesses.  See:  https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/03/the-secret-jehovahs-witness-database-of-child-molesters/584311/

3.  Seventh Day Adventists.  See:  https://atoday.org/adventist-denomination-sued-by-victims-of-sexual-molestation/

4.  Mormons.  See:  https://thegoldwater.com/news/13984-Six-Mormon-Families-Suing-LDS-Church-For-Covering-Up-Pedophilia

5.  Pingry private school.  See:  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/03/30/nj-school-pervasive-child-sex-abuse/99826712/

6.  Public school teachers (female).  See:  https://www.foxnews.com/us/female-teachers-having-sex-with-students-double-standards-lack-of-awareness 

7.  Advocates for pedophiles.  See:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egiBgmvv8wA

In the above linked video,  Madeleine Van Der Bruggen argues that pedophilia is simply a sexual orientation which can neither be chosen or changed.

ml1 said:

mtierney said:

RFA — thanks for refocusing on the topic! 

One sip at a time....

 if either of you had originally asked the question "why did it take France so long to address this issue?" you might have received different responses.  Instead you both originally asked a question that was answered in the article.

 OK, focus has been clarified!! 

What say you?

RealityForAll said:

Matzneff has apparently been engaged in pedophilia for more than 30 years.  And,he writes about pedophilia in his books and celebrates it.  Being brought to the dock after more than 30 years of pedophilia is the definition of "justice too long delayed is justice denied."  Hopefully, you (nohero) are not going to disavow that principle (namely, justice too long delayed is justice denied).

That you posted your remark about me right after the "troll" sign was appropriate. 

nohero said:

RealityForAll said:

Matzneff has apparently been engaged in pedophilia for more than 30 years.  And,he writes about pedophilia in his books and celebrates it.  Being brought to the dock after more than 30 years of pedophilia is the definition of "justice too long delayed is justice denied."  Hopefully, you (nohero) are not going to disavow that principle (namely, justice too long delayed is justice denied).

That you posted your remark about me right after the "troll" sign was appropriate. 

 Right, more non-substantive responses.  

What say you on the following question:  "why did it take France so long to address this issue?"

PS Why are you an apologist for Matzeneff (the alleged pedophile - albeit Matzeneff has bragged about such behavior so the "alleged" position is a little bit nebulous)?

RealityForAll said:

 Right, more non-substantive responses.  

What say you on the following question:  "why did it take France so long to address this issue?"

PS Why are you an apologist for Matzeneff (the alleged pedophile - albeit Matzeneff has bragged about such behavior so the "alleged" position is a little bit nebulous)?

 Questions that must be answered and analyzed.Particularly when the pedophlia revelations center on the government of “enlightened” France, whose president frequently criticizes America on the world stage every chance he gets. He should deal with the yellow vest movement in France — and the seeming acceptance of  child abuse amongst his peers.

Nohero: I have never had the urge to refer to you as a troll, because I believe you are not one.

However, I have wondered about your recent comments as not being responses I would expect from you. Animosity toward me, for example, is more personal of late. I have chalked it up to politics making everyone crazy. But on the topic of pedophlia , you have never before seemed ambiguous.

RealityForAll said:

 Right, more non-substantive responses.  

What say you on the following question:  "why did it take France so long to address this issue?"

 It's not rocket science. Just like in the clergy, or Ohio State wrestling, or Penn State, or the US Gymnastics team, it's a combination of shaming victims and people in power willing to cover for their friends.

RealityForAll said:

nohero said:

RealityForAll said:

Matzneff has apparently been engaged in pedophilia for more than 30 years.  And,he writes about pedophilia in his books and celebrates it.  Being brought to the dock after more than 30 years of pedophilia is the definition of "justice too long delayed is justice denied."  Hopefully, you (nohero) are not going to disavow that principle (namely, justice too long delayed is justice denied).

That you posted your remark about me right after the "troll" sign was appropriate. 

 Right, more non-substantive responses.  

What say you on the following question:  "why did it take France so long to address this issue?"

PS Why are you an apologist for Matzeneff (the alleged pedophile - albeit Matzeneff has bragged about such behavior so the "alleged" position is a little bit nebulous)?

 Here's a substantive response: 

"Why are you an apologist for Matzeneff " is a troll comment.

mtierney said:

Nohero: I have never had the urge to refer to you as a troll, because I believe you are not one.

However, I have wondered about your recent comments as not being responses I would expect from you. Animosity toward me, for example, is more personal of late. I have chalked it up to politics making everyone crazy. But on the topic of pedophlia , you have never before seemed ambiguous.

 You're going to have to direct me to something I actually wrote, otherwise I cannot take your comment seriously.

mtierney said:

But on the topic of pedophlia , you have never before seemed ambiguous.

You're definitely  going to have to point me to what I actually wrote, which would make you think I did not seem unambiguously non-pedophilic.

RealityForAll said:

 Klinker why is mtierney responsible for all the wrongs of the RC church (especially aberrant priests)?

She's hardly responsible for the actual abuse but it is Catholics like her who made (and continue to make) the whole disaster possible by silencing whistle blowers, attempting to shift the blame to the victims and generally denying that the Church has a problem.

Her insistence that those high ranking Church members, who actively facilitate(d) the rape of children by moving predator priests from one despoiled parish  to the next, avoid any accountability is just salt in the bloody wound.

There are monsters amongst us and they aren't just the active abusers.

Add to that the fact that mtierney regularly celebrates a "man" against whom there have been multiple credible accusations of sexual assault and how has, in fact, bragged about attacking women and you have an individual who is both irredeemable AND  deplorable.

I'd like to say anyone can change but at this late date, I am afraid there is little hope for her.

Why Jaimie banned Nan and Paul and left RFA trolling here is really beyond me.

I really wish there was a way that we could all just a accept the fact that mtierney is a contemptible monster and move on.  This subject makes my blood boil and there is literally no chance that she will ever adopt anything like a decent response to it.

I agree with mtierney on nothing but I'll say this: for we libs, this thread is like going to the gym and working out. It hasn't sustained this length (21,000 posts) because people are revolted. 

As a former Catholic, I had high hopes for this pope, at least in terms of reform, as opposed to theology.