The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Listening to voters’ concerns

mtierney said:

here, a hero speaks...

• https://nyti.ms/2yw4hkp

I never understood this often labeling people as heroes. It denigrates the meanikng of hero.

How is he a hero? Did he do something heroic when the bullet approached him? Did he jump in front of someone to save them?

exactly.

I didn't hear his whole speech.

Did he thank the heroic medical team who re-assembled his shattered innards, or did he just thank god?

BG9 said:

mtierney said:

here, a hero speaks...

• https://nyti.ms/2yw4hkp

I never understood this often labeling people as heroes. It denigrates the meanikng of hero.

How is he a hero? Did he do something heroic when the bullet approached him? Did he jump in front of someone to save them?

drummerboy said:

exactly.


I didn't hear his whole speech.


Did he thank the heroic medical team who re-assembled his shattered innards, or did he just thank god?

BG9 said:

mtierney said:

here, a hero speaks...

• https://nyti.ms/2yw4hkp

I never understood this often labeling people as heroes. It denigrates the meanikng of hero.

How is he a hero? Did he do something heroic when the bullet approached him? Did he jump in front of someone to save them?

Didn't see the speech, but I heard that he thanked the medical staff and the police unit that was assigned to protect them.

ETA: I heard Nancy Pelosi thanking God and everyone who prayed for him.

Yes, I saw the Pelosi bit too.

BG9 said:

mtierney said:

here, a hero speaks...

• https://nyti.ms/2yw4hkp

I never understood this often labeling people as heroes. It denigrates the meanikng of hero.

How is he a hero? Did he do something heroic when the bullet approached him? Did he jump in front of someone to save them?

he's a hero because he's a Republican who prays.

I've never come face to face with "imminent risk of death," as Scalise's surgeon put it at the time, so I don't know firsthand how much courage it would take me to overcome it, but I can imagine that the needle on the gauge might need to hit "heroic" at some point.

What would be heroic is if he dedicated himself to preventing others from suffering the same fate the way Gabby Giffords has.  

DaveSchmidt said:

I've never come face to face with "imminent risk of death," as Scalise's surgeon put it at the time, so I don't know firsthand how much courage it would take me to overcome it, but I can imagine that the needle on the gauge might need to hit "heroic" at some point.

I wouldn't consider myself a hero for fighting for my own life.  

ml1 said:

I wouldn't consider myself a hero for fighting for my own life.  

I'm not sure how many heroes consider themselves heroes. Nevertheless, I might consider you one.

DaveSchmidt said:

ml1 said:

I wouldn't consider myself a hero for fighting for my own life.  

I'm not sure how many heroes consider themselves heroes. Nevertheless, I might consider you one.

I wouldn't be.  Fighting for one's own survival is the most basic human instinct.

Dear Mr. Thomas,

We regret to inform you that we are unable to accept for publication your submission dated Oct. 5, 1950. It is well documented scientifically that survival is already a basic human instinct. We suggest that you try "Do Not Go Gentle" instead with the more impressionable editors of a poetry magazine. 

Respectfully,

The Journal of the American Medical Association

By your logic, I assume, that fighting for your life and failing makes you non-heroic.

Or it makes everyone a hero. Depending on the quality of their medical care.

no sorry no.

Kinda diminishes the whole idea of hero, no?

DaveSchmidt said:

Dear Mr. Thomas,

We regret to inform you that we are unable to accept for publication your submission dated Oct. 5, 1950. It is well documented scientifically that survival is already a basic human instinct. We suggest that you try "Do Not Go Gentle" instead with the more impressionable editors of a poetry magazine. 

Respectfully,

The Journal of the American Medical Association

by the way - does anyone really believe that whether a person lives or dies when under extreme medical duress depends on a person's fortitude? Can you really just give up and die?

I've always that that was b.s. Though it makes for good drama.

drummerboy said:

By your logic, I assume, that fighting for your life and failing makes you non-heroic

That logic would be almost as dumb as the assumption.

not actually. If x = hero, not-x = not-hero

can't have one without the other.

otherwise not-x = hero

and that would be a big mess.

DaveSchmidt said:

drummerboy said:

By your logic, I assume, that fighting for your life and failing makes you non-heroic

That logic would be almost as dumb as the assumption.

All I can say is Billy, don't be a hero.  Don't be a fool with your life.

drummerboy said:

not actually. If x = hero, not-x = not-hero

can't have one without the other.

otherwise not-x = hero

and that would be a big mess.

Sure would be, if you assume x is survival. (See previous comment.)

I don't think fighting to stay alive is all that heroic. But I don't use the word "hero" all that often. To me, it's about the highest honor you can bestow on someone. I think it implies sacrifice and selflessness, not just strength or tenacity. 

But YMMV

My mileage is the same.

This all ties into our military worship of course.

ml1 said:

I don't think fighting to stay alive is all that heroic. But I don't use the word "hero" all that often. To me, it's about the highest honor you can bestow on someone. I think it implies sacrifice and selflessness, not just strength or tenacity. 

But YMMV

I reserve the word hero for guys like this:

http://www.nj.com/ocean/index.ssf/2017/09/flower_shop_owner_jersey_shore_drown_heavy_surf_po.html

drummerboy said:
By your logic, I assume, that fighting for your life and failing makes you non-heroic.

Or it makes everyone a hero. Depending on the quality of their medical care.

no sorry no.

Kinda diminishes the whole idea of hero, no?

Captain Hammer: It may not feel too classy, begging just to eat / But you know who does that? Lassie, and she always gets a treat / So you wonder what your part is / Because you're homeless and depressed / But home is where the heart is / So your real home's in your chest / Everyone's a hero in their own way / Everyone's got villains they must face / They're not as cool as mine / But folks you know it's fine to know your place / Everyone's a hero in their own way / In their own not-that-heroic way / So I thank my girlfriend Penny / Yeah, we totally had sex / She showed me there's so many different muscles I can flex / There's the deltoids of compassion, there's the abs of being kind / It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds / Everyone's a hero in their own way / Everyone's got something they can do / Get up go out and fly / Especially that guy, he smells like poo / Everyone's a hero in their own way / You and you and mostly me and you / I'm poverty's new sheriff / And I'm bashing in the slums / A hero doesn't care if you're a bunch of scary alcoholic bums / Everybody! / Everyone's a hero in their own way / Everyone can blaze a hero's trail / Don't worry if it's hard, if you're not a friggin 'tard you will prevail / Everyone's a hero in their own way / Everyone's a hero in their...

this is as good a definition of what makes a hero -- along with getting up every morning...

“These are the times in which a genius would wish to live. It is not in the still calm of life, or the repose of a pacific station, that great characters are formed. The habits of a vigorous mind are formed in contending with difficulties. Great necessities call out great virtues. When a mind is raised, and animated by scenes that engage the heart, then those qualities which would otherwise lay dormant, wake into life and form the character of the hero and the statesman.” 
― Abigail Adams

The Abigail Adams excerpt leaves out two sentences:

Would Cicero have shone so distinguished an orater, if he had not been roused, kindled and enflamed by the Tyranny of Catiline, Millo, Verres and Mark Anthony. The Habits of a vigorous mind are formed in contending with difficulties. All History will convince you of this, and that wisdom and penetration are the fruits of experience, not the Lessons of retirement and leisure.

What's being said today?  The President woke up this morning and decided it would be a good day to insult Puerto Ricans.

"The Mayor of San Juan, who was very complimentary only a few days ago, has now been told by the Democrats that you must be nasty to Trump.  Such poor leadership ability by the Mayor of San Juan, and others in Puerto Rico, who are not able to get their workers to help. They want everything to be done for them when it should be a community effort. 10,000 Federal workers now on Island doing a fantastic job."

He's demonstrating that he's really an ignorant, low-class jerk.  He tops it off by hiding behind the men and women who ARE trying to help.  "Fake News CNN and NBC are going out of their way to disparage our great First Responders as a way to 'get Trump.' Not fair to FR or effort!"  The claim that the first responders are being disparaged is an outright lie, which is no surprise coming from this guy.  And he just keeps topping himself, hiding behind the troops like a coward:  "The Fake News Networks are working overtime in Puerto Rico doing their best to take the spirit away from our soldiers and first R's. Shame!"

His supporters should be ashamed, but obviously they won't be.

[Edited to add] Read for yourselves - https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

nohero said:

What's being said today?  The President woke up this morning and decided it would be a good day to insult Puerto Ricans.

"The Mayor of San Juan, who was very complimentary only a few days ago, has now been told by the Democrats that you must be nasty to Trump.  Such poor leadership ability by the Mayor of San Juan, and others in Puerto Rico, who are not able to get their workers to help. They want everything to be done for them when it should be a community effort. 10,000 Federal workers now on Island doing a fantastic job."

He's demonstrating that he's really an ignorant, low-class jerk.  He tops it off by hiding behind the men and women who ARE trying to help.  "Fake News CNN and NBC are going out of their way to disparage our great First Responders as a way to 'get Trump.' Not fair to FR or effort!"  The claim that the first responders are being disparaged is an outright lie, which is no surprise coming from this guy.  And he just keeps topping himself, hiding behind the troops like a coward:  "The Fake News Networks are working overtime in Puerto Rico doing their best to take the spirit away from our soldiers and first R's. Shame!"

His supporters should be ashamed, but obviously they won't be.

[Edited to add] Read for yourselves - https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

All smoke and mirrors to disguise the fact that he is an illegitimate President destined for impeachment and, if there is any Justice, prison.

He had to distract the news from covering Tom Price’s resignation.

maybe this sheds some light for our northern NJ mindset....

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/29/opinion/jared-kushner-new-jersey.html?ref=todayspaper

mtierney said:

maybe this sheds some light for our northern NJ mindset....

Talk about yourself. Are you projecting?

I find most NJ people, North and South, to be hardworking caring people.

There are deplorables. Being a supporter of the Deplorable-In-Chief you should know. 

They are everywhere, not just NJ. Especially the Red States with their constant whining while living off the blue states.

...blithely ignoring the news of the morning

mtierney said:

maybe this sheds some light for our northern NJ mindset....

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/29/opinion/jared-kushner-new-jersey.html?ref=todayspaper

So what do you think of Trump's quite deplorable tweets this morning? (pretty sure 'deplorable' is exactly the right word)

mtierney said:

maybe this sheds some light for our northern NJ mindset....

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/29/opinion/jared-kushner-new-jersey.html?ref=todayspaper

"Especially" those who reside in Northern New Jersey? I'm not buying that the lower counties feel this way at all. Anybody buying the rest?

To traverse this roadway, as Mr. Kushner surely did as a young man, was undoubtedly to exist in a constant state of aspiration and alienation. No matter one’s personal glories, for those who call New Jersey home, and especially those who reside in Northern New Jersey, it’s difficult to forget that one is still not from “the city,” as the landmass across the river is known.