In the five years since the Assad regime cracked down on peaceful antigovernment protests and the conflict escalated into full-blown civil war, more than 250,000 Syrians have been killed and some 12 million people — more than half the country’s prewar population — have been displaced, including five million who have fled to neighboring countries and to Europe in what the United Nations calls the largest refugee crisis since World War II.
In “The Morning They Came for Us,” Ms. di Giovanni gives us a visceral understanding of what it is like to live in wartime Syria, recounting some of the individual stories behind the numbing statistics: students who were whisked away by the police and interrogated and tortured; children who died from common infections because medicine and doctors were unavailable; women who were raped by soldiers at checkpoints and in jail; families who fled besieged cities like Homs, only to return because there was no place else to go.
The fact that much of the book’s on-the-ground reporting is confined to the early stages of the war only serves to remind the reader that the horrors she witnessed would escalate in the years to come — with still no end in sight.
...
A longtime reporter who covered the wars in Bosnia, Chechnya and Sierra Leone, Ms. di Giovanni writes here with urgency and anguish — determined to testify to what she has witnessed because she wants “people never to forget.” Her sorrow comes through in the writing — in the book’s staccato sentences, in its flashbacks to similar scenes of suffering in the Balkans, in its helpless empathy for people she met in Syria, like the ailing woman in a hospital who begged her to take her children away to some place safe.
Most of Ms. di Giovanni’s travels in Syria, described in detail here, were in 2012, a year into the conflict. In that spring and early summer, she notes, wealthy elites in Damascus were still in denial about the war — though explosions from the shelling could be heard during pool parties at the Dama Rose Hotel. By year’s end, the country had slipped down “the rabbit-hole of war.” The government was targeting civilian neighborhoods, and in the case of Aleppo, “opposition forces had cut off nearly all supply routes.” In that city, she writes, there were two criteria for staying alive: “hiding from the regime’s barrel bombs, and finding food.”
I made the simple point that the US regime-change policy against Assad -- which involved $1 billion to rebels (dominated by the Syrian Al Qaeda offshoot) -- resulted in civilian casualties. And I linked Jeffrey Sach's comments on Morning Joe as a reference. Di Giovanni -- a supporter of regime-change -- couldn't rebut the point so she blocked me. Just because a reporter covers a war "on the ground" doesn't mean they aren't purveyors of propaganda.
JEFFREY SACHS: I think we need to step back and not put this in partisan terms. This is a U.S. mistake that started seven years ago. I remember the day on your show when President Obama said Assad must go, and I looked at you and Joe and said, 'Huh? How's he going to do that? Where's the policy for that?'
And we now know they sent in the CIA to overthrow Assad. The CIA and Saudi Arabia together in covert operations tried to overthrow Assad. It was a disaster. Eventually, it brought in both ISIS, as a splinter group to the Jihadists that went in. It also brought in Russia.
So we have been digging deeper and deeper. What we should do now is get out, and not continue to throw missiles. not have a confrontation with Russia. Seven years has been a disaster, under Obama and continued under Trump.
This is what I would call the "Permanent State."
This is the CIA, this is the Pentagon wanting to keep Iran and Russia out of Syria, but we have no way to do that. And so we have made a proxy war in Syria. It has killed 500,000 people, displaced ten million.
And I'll say predictably so, because I predicted it seven years ago, that there was no way to do this. And it would make a complete chaos.
And so what I would plead to President Trump is: Get out, like your instinct told you, by the way. That was his instinct.
But then all the establishment, the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Pentagon said no, no that's irresponsible.
But his instinct is right: Get out. We've done enough damage in seven years. And now we really risk a confrontation with Russia that is extraordinarily dangerous and reckless...
ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS: I think there are two problems with Professor Sachs's comments, although I certainly feel that sense of Middle East fatigue that we all have. Of course, it is not just Syria, it is Iraq, Afghanistan. There have been a whole series of things that have generated the kind of feeling that says let's pull out of the world and come back to the United States.
There are two fundamental problems with that: One is the use of chemical weapons, I think really does demand a response from the international community at a level of a military strike. I do support a strike here.
Secondly, I do think Professor Sachs is right to point out that this is a massive humanitarian disaster, I think the numbers are actually 600,000 dead and 14 million displaced. I am in complete agreement with him on the scale of this, but I would like to see the United States try and be part of the solution.
And here what I would do is look back to the Balkans in the 1990s, which looked somewhat like Syria of today. And there was eventually an international solution that included the United States and Russia working together. We've got a long way to go to get there, but if we just step away from it, as attractive as that feels to us, I don't think it is the right solution. JEFFREY SACHS: We've got to remember how this happened. This happened because of us. These 600,000 are not just incidental. We started a war to overthrow a regime. It was covert. it was Timber Sycamore, people can look it up, the CIA operation.
Together with Saudi Arabia, still shrouded in secrecy, which is part of the problem in our country. A major war effort shrouded in secrecy, never debated by Congress, never explained to the American people. Signed by President Obama. Never explained.
And this created chaos. And so just throwing more missiles in right now is not a response. We need to, not walk away, but go to the U.N. Security Council and agree with Russia on a strategy for ending the fight.
Ending the fight means we stop trying to overthrow the government [of Bashar al Assad]. That we stop trying to support rebels who are committed to overthrowing the government. That is where this war continues. Because we, to this day, back rebels that are trying to overthrow a government, contrary to international law, contrary to the U.N. charter, contrary to common sense, contrary to practical path.
We cant do it. And it just creates an ongoing crisis, to the extent of facing an imminent confrontation with Russia.
I think it's a given that the conditions of Azovstal POWs are going to be harsh. But as far as the accuracy of the article, the author wrote the insane article that said Manafort visited Assange in the Ecuadorian embassy in London, so I wouldn't rely on it.
The Russia-occupied territories of Ukraine are preparing for the new school year. Russia has already banned teaching the Ukrainian language and history and brought its own textbooks and teachers. Some local teachers have left the occupied territories, some are being retrained and are getting ready to work in classrooms using Russia's syllabus. Others are planning on using Ukraine's syllabus and teaching online.
Obviously, the schools will have to face the new mandatory ceremony introduced recently: raising Russia's flag to the strains of the country's national anthem each Monday morning.
Ukrainian schools are integrated into Russia's educational system not only in the “DPR” and “LPR”, but also in the regions of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, which Russia's rhetoric calls “the liberated territories.” These territories, however, still lack any formal relation to Russia whatsoever; the “referendums” planned for autumn are still yet to happen.
the “referendums” planned for autumn are still yet to happen.
That’s why it’s important that Ukraine liberates Kherson before September. Because once these territories become “Russian territory” by their bogus “referendum”, they have the option to use non conventional weapons if Ukraine bombs any part of it. The war is at a critical stage now.
The Russia-occupied territories of Ukraine are preparing for the new school year. Russia has already banned teaching the Ukrainian language and history and brought its own textbooks and teachers. Some local teachers have left the occupied territories, some are being retrained and are getting ready to work in classrooms using Russia's syllabus. Others are planning on using Ukraine's syllabus and teaching online.
Obviously, the schools will have to face the new mandatory ceremony introduced recently: raising Russia's flag to the strains of the country's national anthem each Monday morning.
Ukrainian schools are integrated into Russia's educational system not only in the “DPR” and “LPR”, but also in the regions of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, which Russia's rhetoric calls “the liberated territories.” These territories, however, still lack any formal relation to Russia whatsoever; the “referendums” planned for autumn are still yet to happen.
You had no problem when the Ukranians banned Russian from the schools. Why are you now upset they are banning Ukranian? Probably they speak Russian anyway. It's good they are opening schools. It's good they are not learning about Bandara as a hero. It's Russian territory now so of course they will have the Russian flag and anthem.
In the five years since the Assad regime cracked down on peaceful antigovernment protests and the conflict escalated into full-blown civil war, more than 250,000 Syrians have been killed and some 12 million people — more than half the country’s prewar population — have been displaced, including five million who have fled to neighboring countries and to Europe in what the United Nations calls the largest refugee crisis since World War II.
In “The Morning They Came for Us,” Ms. di Giovanni gives us a visceral understanding of what it is like to live in wartime Syria, recounting some of the individual stories behind the numbing statistics: students who were whisked away by the police and interrogated and tortured; children who died from common infections because medicine and doctors were unavailable; women who were raped by soldiers at checkpoints and in jail; families who fled besieged cities like Homs, only to return because there was no place else to go.
The fact that much of the book’s on-the-ground reporting is confined to the early stages of the war only serves to remind the reader that the horrors she witnessed would escalate in the years to come — with still no end in sight.
...
A longtime reporter who covered the wars in Bosnia, Chechnya and Sierra Leone, Ms. di Giovanni writes here with urgency and anguish — determined to testify to what she has witnessed because she wants “people never to forget.” Her sorrow comes through in the writing — in the book’s staccato sentences, in its flashbacks to similar scenes of suffering in the Balkans, in its helpless empathy for people she met in Syria, like the ailing woman in a hospital who begged her to take her children away to some place safe.
Most of Ms. di Giovanni’s travels in Syria, described in detail here, were in 2012, a year into the conflict. In that spring and early summer, she notes, wealthy elites in Damascus were still in denial about the war — though explosions from the shelling could be heard during pool parties at the Dama Rose Hotel. By year’s end, the country had slipped down “the rabbit-hole of war.” The government was targeting civilian neighborhoods, and in the case of Aleppo, “opposition forces had cut off nearly all supply routes.” In that city, she writes, there were two criteria for staying alive: “hiding from the regime’s barrel bombs, and finding food.”
I made the simple point that the US regime-change policy against Assad -- which involved $1 billion to rebels (dominated by the Syrian Al Qaeda offshoot) -- resulted in civilian casualties. And I linked Jeffrey Sach's comments on Morning Joe as a reference. Di Giovanni -- a supporter of regime-change -- couldn't rebut the point so she blocked me. Just because a reporter covers a war "on the ground" doesn't mean they aren't purveyors of propaganda.
JEFFREY SACHS: I think we need to step back and not put this in partisan terms. This is a U.S. mistake that started seven years ago. I remember the day on your show when President Obama said Assad must go, and I looked at you and Joe and said, 'Huh? How's he going to do that? Where's the policy for that?'
And we now know they sent in the CIA to overthrow Assad. The CIA and Saudi Arabia together in covert operations tried to overthrow Assad. It was a disaster. Eventually, it brought in both ISIS, as a splinter group to the Jihadists that went in. It also brought in Russia.
So we have been digging deeper and deeper. What we should do now is get out, and not continue to throw missiles. not have a confrontation with Russia. Seven years has been a disaster, under Obama and continued under Trump.
This is what I would call the "Permanent State."
This is the CIA, this is the Pentagon wanting to keep Iran and Russia out of Syria, but we have no way to do that. And so we have made a proxy war in Syria. It has killed 500,000 people, displaced ten million.
And I'll say predictably so, because I predicted it seven years ago, that there was no way to do this. And it would make a complete chaos.
And so what I would plead to President Trump is: Get out, like your instinct told you, by the way. That was his instinct.
But then all the establishment, the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Pentagon said no, no that's irresponsible.
But his instinct is right: Get out. We've done enough damage in seven years. And now we really risk a confrontation with Russia that is extraordinarily dangerous and reckless...
ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS: I think there are two problems with Professor Sachs's comments, although I certainly feel that sense of Middle East fatigue that we all have. Of course, it is not just Syria, it is Iraq, Afghanistan. There have been a whole series of things that have generated the kind of feeling that says let's pull out of the world and come back to the United States.
There are two fundamental problems with that: One is the use of chemical weapons, I think really does demand a response from the international community at a level of a military strike. I do support a strike here.
Secondly, I do think Professor Sachs is right to point out that this is a massive humanitarian disaster, I think the numbers are actually 600,000 dead and 14 million displaced. I am in complete agreement with him on the scale of this, but I would like to see the United States try and be part of the solution.
And here what I would do is look back to the Balkans in the 1990s, which looked somewhat like Syria of today. And there was eventually an international solution that included the United States and Russia working together. We've got a long way to go to get there, but if we just step away from it, as attractive as that feels to us, I don't think it is the right solution. JEFFREY SACHS: We've got to remember how this happened. This happened because of us. These 600,000 are not just incidental. We started a war to overthrow a regime. It was covert. it was Timber Sycamore, people can look it up, the CIA operation.
Together with Saudi Arabia, still shrouded in secrecy, which is part of the problem in our country. A major war effort shrouded in secrecy, never debated by Congress, never explained to the American people. Signed by President Obama. Never explained.
And this created chaos. And so just throwing more missiles in right now is not a response. We need to, not walk away, but go to the U.N. Security Council and agree with Russia on a strategy for ending the fight.
Ending the fight means we stop trying to overthrow the government [of Bashar al Assad]. That we stop trying to support rebels who are committed to overthrowing the government. That is where this war continues. Because we, to this day, back rebels that are trying to overthrow a government, contrary to international law, contrary to the U.N. charter, contrary to common sense, contrary to practical path.
We cant do it. And it just creates an ongoing crisis, to the extent of facing an imminent confrontation with Russia.
Click to Read More
JEFFREY SACHS: I think we need to step back and not put this in partisan terms. This is a U.S. mistake that started seven years ago. I remember the day on your show when President Obama said Assad must go, and I looked at you and Joe and said, 'Huh? How's he going to do that? Where's the policy for that?'
And we now know they sent in the CIA to overthrow Assad. The CIA and Saudi Arabia together in covert operations tried to overthrow Assad. It was a disaster. Eventually, it brought in both ISIS, as a splinter group to the Jihadists that went in. It also brought in Russia.
So we have been digging deeper and deeper. What we should do now is get out, and not continue to throw missiles. not have a confrontation with Russia. Seven years has been a disaster, under Obama and continued under Trump.
This is what I would call the "Permanent State."
This is the CIA, this is the Pentagon wanting to keep Iran and Russia out of Syria, but we have no way to do that. And so we have made a proxy war in Syria. It has killed 500,000 people, displaced ten million.
And I'll say predictably so, because I predicted it seven years ago, that there was no way to do this. And it would make a complete chaos.
And so what I would plead to President Trump is: Get out, like your instinct told you, by the way. That was his instinct.
But then all the establishment, the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Pentagon said no, no that's irresponsible.
But his instinct is right: Get out. We've done enough damage in seven years. And now we really risk a confrontation with Russia that is extraordinarily dangerous and reckless...
ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS: I think there are two problems with Professor Sachs's comments, although I certainly feel that sense of Middle East fatigue that we all have. Of course, it is not just Syria, it is Iraq, Afghanistan. There have been a whole series of things that have generated the kind of feeling that says let's pull out of the world and come back to the United States.
There are two fundamental problems with that: One is the use of chemical weapons, I think really does demand a response from the international community at a level of a military strike. I do support a strike here.
Secondly, I do think Professor Sachs is right to point out that this is a massive humanitarian disaster, I think the numbers are actually 600,000 dead and 14 million displaced. I am in complete agreement with him on the scale of this, but I would like to see the United States try and be part of the solution.
And here what I would do is look back to the Balkans in the 1990s, which looked somewhat like Syria of today. And there was eventually an international solution that included the United States and Russia working together. We've got a long way to go to get there, but if we just step away from it, as attractive as that feels to us, I don't think it is the right solution. JEFFREY SACHS: We've got to remember how this happened. This happened because of us. These 600,000 are not just incidental. We started a war to overthrow a regime. It was covert. it was Timber Sycamore, people can look it up, the CIA operation.
Together with Saudi Arabia, still shrouded in secrecy, which is part of the problem in our country. A major war effort shrouded in secrecy, never debated by Congress, never explained to the American people. Signed by President Obama. Never explained.
And this created chaos. And so just throwing more missiles in right now is not a response. We need to, not walk away, but go to the U.N. Security Council and agree with Russia on a strategy for ending the fight.
Ending the fight means we stop trying to overthrow the government [of Bashar al Assad]. That we stop trying to support rebels who are committed to overthrowing the government. That is where this war continues. Because we, to this day, back rebels that are trying to overthrow a government, contrary to international law, contrary to the U.N. charter, contrary to common sense, contrary to practical path.
We cant do it. And it just creates an ongoing crisis, to the extent of facing an imminent confrontation with Russia.
The Sachs transcript is irrelevant.
I provided the review by the respected Michiko Kakutani to show who it is that Paul is slandering with his false version of their exchange on the Twitter.
It’s “occupied “ territory by the invaders…, not Russian territory. These invaders have been trying to hold referendums since March of this year when they invaded…. Guess what… still haven’t convinced the people living there to become Russian citizens. I think Rasputin’s next step is to starve them out and have them begging for food…. Kinda like what he did In Mariupol eh…
I will be the first to announce when the Ukrainian army finally kicks these bastards out. Unlike you and your miserable “sources” I get direct information from a friend of mine who has a son fighting the Russian army right there in that region. She has not stopped crying since February, and lives for that few minutes of a phone call from her son…. Who begs her not to cry for him. You have no freakin idea what the Phuk is going on in Ukraine. No goddamned idea what you’re talking about! Just regurgitating the same Russian bullsiht propaganda in this message board. No compassion, no phukkin decency to even understand what these people have been going through because of the Russians. You are despicable, borderline evil!
It’s “occupied “ territory by the invaders…, not Russian territory. These invaders have been trying to hold referendums since March of this year when they invaded…. Guess what… still haven’t convinced the people living there to become Russian citizens. I think Rasputin’s next step is to starve them out and have them begging for food…. Kinda like what he did In Mariupol eh…
I will be the first to announce when the Ukrainian army finally kicks these bastards out. Unlike you and your miserable “sources” I get direct information from a friend of mine who has a son fighting the Russian army right there in that region. She has not stopped crying since February, and lives for that few minutes of a phone call from her son…. Who begs her not to cry for him. You have no freakin idea what the Phuk is going on in Ukraine. No goddamned idea what you’re talking about! Just regurgitating the same Russian bullsiht propaganda in this message board. No compassion, no phukkin decency to even understand what these people have been going through because of the Russians. You are despicable, borderline evil!
I'm sorry for your friend's situation but you have not given any information to contradict my views. I hope he is doing OK. Is he thinking of leaving? Will they let him leave?
Many of the people in the Donbass are glad the Russians are there. I'm sure there are some who are not. It is going to vary. Here are some who are glad.
‼️Local Ukrainians welcome Russian troops, they are afraid Ukrainian troops will come back. pic.twitter.com/ZZXC7I38zA
It’s “occupied “ territory by the invaders…, not Russian territory. These invaders have been trying to hold referendums since March of this year when they invaded…. Guess what… still haven’t convinced the people living there to become Russian citizens. I think Rasputin’s next step is to starve them out and have them begging for food…. Kinda like what he did In Mariupol eh…
I will be the first to announce when the Ukrainian army finally kicks these bastards out. Unlike you and your miserable “sources” I get direct information from a friend of mine who has a son fighting the Russian army right there in that region. She has not stopped crying since February, and lives for that few minutes of a phone call from her son…. Who begs her not to cry for him. You have no freakin idea what the Phuk is going on in Ukraine. No goddamned idea what you’re talking about! Just regurgitating the same Russian bullsiht propaganda in this message board. No compassion, no phukkin decency to even understand what these people have been going through because of the Russians. You are despicable, borderline evil!
I'm sorry for your friend's situation but you have not given any information to contradict my views. I hope he is doing OK. Is he thinking of leaving? Will they let him leave?
Many of the people in the Donbass are glad the Russians are there. I'm sure there are some who are not. It is going to vary. Here are some who are glad.
‼️Local Ukrainians welcome Russian troops, they are afraid Ukrainian troops will come back. pic.twitter.com/ZZXC7I38zA
— Matreshka
nan - do you remember when Vlad called all Russians who left Russia and opposed the war - scum and traitors?
Do you agree with this sentiment?
Unfortunately people can't protest. Russian will never know the true cost of lives lost because Vlad conveniently made this a state secret.
All Russians I know who are out of Russia strongly oppose the war. Russians in Russia are behind Vlad. Could it be because he's able to control the message? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
It’s “occupied “ territory by the invaders…, not Russian territory. These invaders have been trying to hold referendums since March of this year when they invaded…. Guess what… still haven’t convinced the people living there to become Russian citizens. I think Rasputin’s next step is to starve them out and have them begging for food…. Kinda like what he did In Mariupol eh…
I will be the first to announce when the Ukrainian army finally kicks these bastards out. Unlike you and your miserable “sources” I get direct information from a friend of mine who has a son fighting the Russian army right there in that region. She has not stopped crying since February, and lives for that few minutes of a phone call from her son…. Who begs her not to cry for him. You have no freakin idea what the Phuk is going on in Ukraine. No goddamned idea what you’re talking about! Just regurgitating the same Russian bullsiht propaganda in this message board. No compassion, no phukkin decency to even understand what these people have been going through because of the Russians. You are despicable, borderline evil!
I'm sorry for your friend's situation but you have not given any information to contradict my views. I hope he is doing OK. Is he thinking of leaving? Will they let him leave?
Many of the people in the Donbass are glad the Russians are there. I'm sure there are some who are not. It is going to vary. Here are some who are glad.
‼️Local Ukrainians welcome Russian troops, they are afraid Ukrainian troops will come back. pic.twitter.com/ZZXC7I38zA
— Matreshka
nan - do you remember when Vlad called all Russians who left Russia and opposed the war - scum and traitors?
Do you agree with this sentiment?
Unfortunately people can't protest. Russian will never know the true cost of lives lost because Vlad conveniently made this a state secret.
All Russians I know who are out of Russia strongly oppose the war. Russians in Russia are behind Vlad. Could it be because he's able to control the message? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
The Russians support this war. They feel it's long overdue because of Ukranian abuse in the Donbass. They want it to be over though, and they feel safe in saying that. Of course a few people left--they were affiliated with the West and that's where they went.
By the way, it's not going well for Zelensky. Here's a Sky News Journalist from Australasia. What do you think about this?
The Russians support this war. They feel it's long overdue because of Ukranian abuse in the Donbass. They want it to be over though, and they feel safe in saying that. Of course a few people left--they were affiliated with the West and that's where they went.
Nan, he has no intentions of leaving. He’s proud to be fighting for his country. I would love to post a picture of him in his uniform but it’s not going to happen. He’s 32 years old, joined the military after the Crimea invasion. They are from the western part of Ukraine closer to Poland. The torture and murder of pows and ordinary Ukrainian people is what has stirred up so much hatred for the Russian people. You are right when you say they will fight to the last person, because they know what life would be like living under Russian oppression. You have no idea what you talking about concerning Russia and China. It’s your ignorance and propaganda that is infuriating. Offensive to decency. It’s like you just don’t care about anything or anyone who is not a freakin communist. But you don’t have the guts to go live with these people you support. Both you and Paul are cowards. Apologetic cowards. It’s mindless. It’s inhumane. It’s evil.
The Russians support this war. They feel it's long overdue because of Ukranian abuse in the Donbass. They want it to be over though, and they feel safe in saying that. Of course a few people left--they were affiliated with the West and that's where they went.
For the genocide that doesn't exist? Or is bullying the newest excuse to go to war?
Nan, he has no intentions of leaving. He’s proud to be fighting for his country. I would love to post a picture of him in his uniform but it’s not going to happen. He’s 32 years old, joined the military after the Crimea invasion. They are from the western part of Ukraine closer to Poland. The torture and murder of pows and ordinary Ukrainian people is what has stirred up so much hatred for the Russian people. You are right when you say they will fight to the last person, because they know what life would be like living under Russian oppression. You have no idea what you talking about concerning Russia and China. It’s your ignorance and propaganda that is infuriating. Offensive to decency. It’s like you just don’t care about anything or anyone who is not a freakin communist. But you don’t have the guts to go live with these people you support. Both you and Paul are cowards. Apologetic cowards. It’s mindless. It’s inhumane. It’s evil.
We don't agree. I hope your friend's son stays safe.
The Russians support this war. They feel it's long overdue because of Ukranian abuse in the Donbass. They want it to be over though, and they feel safe in saying that. Of course a few people left--they were affiliated with the West and that's where they went.
For the genocide that doesn't exist? Or is bullying the newest excuse to go to war?
We're still waiting for the numbers.
65 - 71% of Russians support this war. They blame the West. They don't give a F**k about your supposed numbers. They know the people in the Donbas were being attacked.
Here is an interview with Russian-American journalist Mark Sleboda. His wife is from Crimea and they have relatives all over the Donbass. They were very aware of abuse of residents in the Donbass.
The Russians support this war. They feel it's long overdue because of Ukranian abuse in the Donbass. They want it to be over though, and they feel safe in saying that. Of course a few people left--they were affiliated with the West and that's where they went.
For the genocide that doesn't exist? Or is bullying the newest excuse to go to war?
We're still waiting for the numbers.
65 - 71% of Russians support this war. They blame the West. They don't give a F**k about your supposed numbers. They know the people in the Donbas were being attacked.
so you concede that you have zero numbers for the "genocide". And you're 100% behind Lavrov's call for regime change.
And zero problem with Vlad's destruction of a sovereign nation - got it!
And bullying is now the new excuse to invade a country.
If you think Russian approval is legit - then I wish you could go visit. But people are very scared to speak up - do you not realize why this is????????????????
Younger Russians are more susceptible to Western propaganda on social media, risk becoming zombified, believing such obvious disinfo as the Snake Island fable, the Ghost of Kiev & that Russia is targeting maternity hospitals not occupied by Azov NeoNazi deathsquads
Mark use UkraineNews a lot in his feed which we've already debunked as an incredibly pro-kremlin twitter handle. Do you know know this?
Are you onboard with the detention center blown up by Ukraine also?
Seems like every bad missile strike was Ukraine hitting themselves.
Right. More likely Russia will consolidate control of the east to establish security for Donbas and limit further operations to "demilitarization" rather than seeking to occupy the rest of the country.
ESTRIN: So if what the Amnesty researchers documented is true, as you say, what is the criticism against the report?
HAYDA: Yeah, so the criticism mostly comes down to what the report doesn't say as opposed to what it does say. The report implies that Ukraine may be committing war crimes and says that soldiers actions might be interpreted as using civilians as human shields. So I talked to the report's author, Donatella Rivera, who's very well known in this area of human rights research. And she said that being in schools and hospitals isn't strictly against international law. And so critics are asking, who gets to determine what is or isn't within the bounds of international law? How far do soldiers need to be away from civilians, especially in cases of defensive urban warfare, to be within the bounds of legal warfare? It's just too ambiguous.
ESTRIN: This report has made a lot of people pretty mad in Ukraine, right?
HAYDA: Yeah. It's been the talk of the streets for days. There's even a viral meme that the organization might change its name to something like Shamnesty (ph) International. Now, one of the reasons for this is because Russia has been trying to justify its invasion of Ukraine since before it even happened. And Ukrainians are mad that Russian media has really run with this Amnesty report, and they've jumped onto some of those implied conclusions that Ukrainians are all war criminals. I talked to Ilya Lozovsky from the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project, which just like Amnesty, monitors compliance with international law in Ukraine. He says the Amnesty report was written so clumsily, it borders on negligent.
Something about Nan's view of Ukrainians simply being pawns of the US/NATO/Atlantic Council (I should probably add in George Soros and Bill Gates) brings to mind a guy named Patrick Henry. As I recall, he had something to say about a similar situation as the one in which the Ukrainians find themselves. What was it that he said? It's at the tip of my tongue - maybe Nan remembers.
The Russians support this war. They feel it's long overdue because of Ukranian abuse in the Donbass. They want it to be over though, and they feel safe in saying that. Of course a few people left--they were affiliated with the West and that's where they went.
For the genocide that doesn't exist? Or is bullying the newest excuse to go to war?
We're still waiting for the numbers.
65 - 71% of Russians support this war. They blame the West. They don't give a F**k about your supposed numbers. They know the people in the Donbas were being attacked.
so you concede that you have zero numbers for the "genocide". And you're 100% behind Lavrov's call for regime change.
And zero problem with Vlad's destruction of a sovereign nation - got it!
And bullying is now the new excuse to invade a country.
If you think Russian approval is legit - then I wish you could go visit. But people are very scared to speak up - do you not realize why this is????????????????
No, I don't concede anything. The only numbers technically available are from the UN and those are 14,000 dead. There was also a larger number for wounded. We don't know if these numbers are accurate but they are all we have.
These numbers do not deny genocide in the Donbass. If you think they do then you need to tell me what number justifies genocide. Is it 14,0001? Did we just miss it by one person?
There are many accounts by people living in the Donbass that they were fired upon by the Ukraine Military, specifically the Azov Batallion. They lived in fear and many died. They were hiding out in basements. I have shown you multiple videos and movies documenting this and you ignored them or dismissed them and just keep asking for a specific number. It's the sealion thing.
And once again - Ukraine and Russia are fighting a proxy war -- so Ukraine does not have sovereignty. They are innocent pawns in a deadly geopolitical game.
paulsurovell