I'm watching a video now (because I need to wash dishes) from Multipolarista (Ben Norton--good journalist) on how NATO is not the defensive organization it claims and that Mike Pompeo even opened his trap and said so. NATO just wants to keep the US dominating the world, even if we all have to die to accomplish that.
I watched the first two minutes of this video.
The first minute is Norton telling us that NATO is evil (more or less). He then says, these are not my words, but the words of Pompeo.
Now when someone uses the phrase "these are the words of x" you expect to hear some direct quotes from x.
Not in this case. Norton is just giving his own hyperbolic spin on what Pompeo says.
Anyway, it's just two minutes - someone else watch and give their take on it.
Norton is being pretty dishonest, if you ask me.
And Pompeo is not saying anything out of the ordinary.
I'm watching a video now (because I need to wash dishes) from Multipolarista (Ben Norton--good journalist) on how NATO is not the defensive organization it claims and that Mike Pompeo even opened his trap and said so. NATO just wants to keep the US dominating the world, even if we all have to die to accomplish that.
Mike Pompeo, of course, said no such thing.
That was my opinion. Stop being so short with me. Take it down a notch. I said I was watching it. I've finished it now and I think everyone should watch this, especially after reading that Jeffrey Sachs piece on the failure of the neocons that I posted yesterday.
Pompeo is the ex-head of the CIA, so he knows how intelligence works. He made a speech to the neocon Hudson Institute and it was VERY revealing about what is the real deal for the Ukraine war and the real goals of NATO. He was speaking to friends and supporters so he did not have to pretend NATO was about democracy or the other BS they spew. Basically, it's all about US world domination and keeping Russia and China from forming an alliance. He is dead set against Ukraine participating in any peace talks and says it is critical we win this war. I guess that's why the long-range missiles went over. Expect escalation. I'm sure Pompaeo would be fine if the proxy war became a real war and we had a draft because human rights or quality of life for ordinary people was not even close to being on his radar.
The plan also includes fighting with China. In fact, China is the real target--Russia is the appetizer and stopping their alliance, which, if you listened to Putin's recent major speech, is already happening--because of neocons. They cause the problems and then they solve them with death and destruction.
Pompeo wants to use Ukraine as base for launching/militarizing, etc. They have a plan and there was no concern for ordinary Ukrainians. He does love Zelensky, the puppet, and compared him to George Washington. Pompeo is also a disgusting person and a racist, but those are his better qualities. A bunch of you think Putin is like Hitler? Putin is like Elmo compared to Mike Pompeo. The man is the personification of evil. I'm surprised he does not grow horns. He plans to run for President. The Democrats will try to find someone even more to right to oppose him. Change my mind.
The neocon view (pushed by mainstream media) is batshit crazy. Pompeo is a Republican, but the neocon view spans both parties, so it's not like voting for Democrats is going to save us from this. They have Nuland & Co. who are just as bad. The two parties are only different on some social issues.
This video was scarier than anything Stephen King ever wrote.
Oh, and if there are any Trump fans in our listening audience--this confirms that Trump was not the right-wing populist he pretended to be ---AND --for the Dems: he appointed people how HATED and WANTED to DESTROY Russia. Like from their heads to their socks. John Bolton was another one. So much for the Russiagate idea that Trump and Putin were pals.
Unless people understand what is really going on and do something to stop this instead of supporting it (if that is even possible) we are doomed as doomed can be.
I'm watching a video now (because I need to wash dishes) from Multipolarista (Ben Norton--good journalist) on how NATO is not the defensive organization it claims and that Mike Pompeo even opened his trap and said so. NATO just wants to keep the US dominating the world, even if we all have to die to accomplish that.
I watched the first two minutes of this video.
The first minute is Norton telling us that NATO is evil (more or less). He then says, these are not my words, but the words of Pompeo.
Now when someone uses the phrase "these are the words of x" you expect to hear some direct quotes from x.
Not in this case. Norton is just giving his own hyperbolic spin on what Pompeo says.
Anyway, it's just two minutes - someone else watch and give their take on it.
Norton is being pretty dishonest, if you ask me.
And Pompeo is not saying anything out of the ordinary.
What does Pompeo say that you think is normal? Listen to the whole video.
“A major factor in the crisis that led to deadly protests and eventually Yanukovych’s removal from office was his rejection of an EU association agreement that would have further opened trade and integrated Ukraine with the European Union. The agreement was tied to a 17 billion dollars loan from the International Monetary Fund (IMF). Instead, Yanukovych chose a Russian aid package worth 15 billion dollars plus a 33 percent discount on Russian natural gas.”
What I’m looking for is the primary source for this. I’m saying this didn’t happen, but it definitely wasn’t the only factor. So I’m not rejecting that the EU agreement was tied to an IMF loan, or an austerity package, just that I haven’t seen that outside of secondary sources.
The footnotes in that Oakland Institute excerpt aren’t very helpful, are they.
The IMF referred to the Ukraine-EU talks as bilateral, suggesting no direct IMF role, in this Dec. 12, 2013, press conference:
Weeks earlier, Ukraine’s prime minister blamed stiff IMF loan terms, in part, for the decision to reject the EU offer in favor of Russia, but news reports indicated no tie or attachment between the EU offer and the IMF loan requirements.
Azarov and EU officials added that the final blow to the pact, touted as historic, came last week when the International Monetary Fund presented very stiff terms for loans to avoid an economic collapse in Ukraine. These were demands that Kiev felt impossible to meet and that the EU also found too harsh.
I'm watching a video now (because I need to wash dishes) from Multipolarista (Ben Norton--good journalist) on how NATO is not the defensive organization it claims and that Mike Pompeo even opened his trap and said so. NATO just wants to keep the US dominating the world, even if we all have to die to accomplish that.
Mike Pompeo, of course, said no such thing.
That was my opinion. ...
If it wasn't for misrepresentation, there wouldn't be any arguments here against Ukraine defending itself.
What does it say about "progressive" "peace activists" that they don't have a clue that they're on the wrong side?
What does it say about liberal/ supposedly progessive Democrats when the peace activist lane is left open for the weirdo right-wingers to occupy? Another critical question: If an idiot like Marjorie Taylor Green can understand the dangers of NATO and US Empire, why can't you?
I'm watching a video now (because I need to wash dishes) from Multipolarista (Ben Norton--good journalist) on how NATO is not the defensive organization it claims and that Mike Pompeo even opened his trap and said so. NATO just wants to keep the US dominating the world, even if we all have to die to accomplish that.
Mike Pompeo, of course, said no such thing.
That was my opinion. ...
If it wasn't for misrepresentation, there wouldn't be any arguments here against Ukraine defending itself.
You provide zero support for your argument.
Also, missing the point that Ukraine has been defending itself and their army is now decimated and Russia is well on the way to victory in the Donbas. Even Western media is kind of sort of admitting this.
Look what your argument has led to - death and destruction of Ukraine. A peace settlement would have avoided all of that and retained much Ukrainian land. The strategy you support has been a failure. Why continue?
Now there might be some changes but they increase the chances that this turns into WWIII and nuclear war. Do you support escalating the war as Biden is doing by sending in long-range missiles?
The neocons say YES! and you are a neocon so I'm guessing you will say YES! as well.
What does it say about liberal/ supposedly progessive Democrats when the peace activist lane is left open for the weirdo right-wingers to occupy? Another critical question: If an idiot like Marjorie Taylor Green can understand the dangers of NATO and US Empire, why can't you?
Look what your argument has led to - death and destruction of Ukraine. A peace settlement would have avoided all of that and retained much Ukrainian land. The strategy you support has been a failure. Why continue?
Now there might be some changes but they increase the chances that this turns into WWIII and nuclear war. Do you support escalating the war as Biden is doing by sending in long-range missiles?
The neocons say YES! and you are a neocon so I'm guessing you will say YES! as well.
And "Moo" right back to you, too.
You're not taking the side of peace with all of this nonsense, by the way.
What does it say about liberal/ supposedly progessive Democrats when the peace activist lane is left open for the weirdo right-wingers to occupy? Another critical question: If an idiot like Marjorie Taylor Green can understand the dangers of NATO and US Empire, why can't you?
Look what your argument has led to - death and destruction of Ukraine. A peace settlement would have avoided all of that and retained much Ukrainian land. The strategy you support has been a failure. Why continue?
Now there might be some changes but they increase the chances that this turns into WWIII and nuclear war. Do you support escalating the war as Biden is doing by sending in long-range missiles?
The neocons say YES! and you are a neocon so I'm guessing you will say YES! as well.
And "Moo" right back to you, too.
You're not taking the side of peace with all of this nonsense, by the way.
I'm very much on the side of peace and it's sad that I'm in the extreme minority. Most, like you, are cheering on the death and destruction of a loony neocon project while thinking you are somehow doing the right thing.
What does it say about liberal/ supposedly progessive Democrats when the peace activist lane is left open for the weirdo right-wingers to occupy? Another critical question: If an idiot like Marjorie Taylor Green can understand the dangers of NATO and US Empire, why can't you?
Look what your argument has led to - death and destruction of Ukraine. A peace settlement would have avoided all of that and retained much Ukrainian land. The strategy you support has been a failure. Why continue?
Now there might be some changes but they increase the chances that this turns into WWIII and nuclear war. Do you support escalating the war as Biden is doing by sending in long-range missiles?
The neocons say YES! and you are a neocon so I'm guessing you will say YES! as well.
And "Moo" right back to you, too.
You're not taking the side of peace with all of this nonsense, by the way.
I'm very much on the side of peace and it's sad that I'm in the extreme minority. Most, like you, are cheering on the death and destruction of a loony neocon project while thinking you are somehow doing the right thing.
if you were on the side of peace you wouldn't be spending so much energy defending the side that started this war.
I'm very much on the side of peace and it's sad that I'm in the extreme minority. Most, like you, are cheering on the death and destruction of a loony neocon project while thinking you are somehow doing the right thing.
ok, so show us in writing how much land Putin will be happy with in order to stop his WAR. YOU HAVE NO IDEA.
One of his main goals was denazification - what percentage of that are we currently at?
Like your fringe opinion news guys, Vlad will always have a gray(zone) area where he conditions aren't met and will use this until he's satisfied with how much new territory he gains.
The faith you have in Vlad is really incredible and fascinating. Almost like he's your leader. I just have to constantly remind you - he is actually sending his people to their death for his pet project. He's obliterating a country he doesn't believe should exist.
Serious response - the "big picture" is that Russia invaded in order to acquire, keep and hold as much of Ukraine as it can, under whatever guise it can. Whether it's annexation, an "autonomous region" dependent on Russia, or a government in Kyiv subject to threats if not directly controlled, that is the obvious intent. Also in the "big picture" is that Ukrainians know their history (the Holodomor) and currently Russia is violating the guarantee of Ukrainian territorial integrity which it promised when Ukraine gave up the nuclear weapons.
Serious response - the "big picture" is that Russia invaded in order to acquire, keep and hold as much of Ukraine as it can, under whatever guise it can. Whether it's annexation, an "autonomous region" dependent on Russia, or a government in Kyiv subject to threats if not directly controlled, that is the obvious intent. Also in the "big picture" is that Ukrainians know their history (the Holodomor) and currently Russia is violating the guarantee of Ukrainian territorial integrity which it promised when Ukraine gave up the nuclear weapons.
That's the propaganda version. The one the mainstream media tells to the masses so they send more money, support high inflation and even sacrifice their children to profit making wars.
The real version, is that the whole thing is a neocon project for US hegemonic world dominance (as honestly expressed by Mike Pompeo in his recent Hudson Institute speech). It's all about defeating Russia and then China and making sure they don't have an alliance that challenges the US. They must be subjugated beneath the US, no matter what it takes. This must be done even if nuclear war is involved and many people die. We must be the biggest bastard in the valley of the shadow. There can be no off-ramp to this plan.
Ukraine is a tool used to provoke Russia into a protracted war of attrition, along with crippling sanctions. This took some time, and included overthrowing the president in 2014 so they were forced to take the EU deal with IMF austerity (did not want them getting along with Russia). Anti-Russian propaganda was spread and the military was sent to harass/kill people in the Donbass. This was done to make Putin angry and get him to invade. When the war is over, Ukraine will be used as a base for weapons to keep everyone in place Putin will be replaced with a Western puppet and we can again take advantage of Russian natural resources. Then we will go to war with China and do the same.
Zelensky is a useful chap and he takes our orders and continues to provide all the Ukranian troops lined up for slaughter. If they run out we will get bigger longer range missiles and start shooting them into Russia and get the whole world involved. We tell the people that Putin is a second Hitler, going for world domination and attacking Ukraine unprovoked. Russiagate helped to get the Americans to hate the Russians. We don't tell them what happened in the Donbass for 8 years or about the IMF austerity. If they ask, we lie (also lie about the coup).
In the end, Russia (and China) are run by Western friendly leaders and everyone else looks to us for instructions on how to have a "free, democratic system.' Profit soars for weapons industry and the oligarchs (see Hudson Institute donor list). The dollar remains the most important currency in the world, although the American people are just as exploited as everyone else. Their economy continues in austerity mode and ordinary people are desperate and easily used for whatever task their overloads deem important and profitable.
Ok, I know this sounds like a bad version of a Margaret Atwood book, but it's closer to the truth than anything nohero considers reality.
Serious response - the "big picture" is that Russia invaded in order to acquire, keep and hold as much of Ukraine as it can, under whatever guise it can. Whether it's annexation, an "autonomous region" dependent on Russia, or a government in Kyiv subject to threats if not directly controlled, that is the obvious intent. Also in the "big picture" is that Ukrainians know their history (the Holodomor) and currently Russia is violating the guarantee of Ukrainian territorial integrity which it promised when Ukraine gave up the nuclear weapons.
That's the propaganda version. The one the mainstream media tells to the masses so they send more money, support high inflation and even sacrifice their children to profit making wars.
The real version, is that the whole thing is a neocon project for US hegemonic world dominance (as honestly expressed by Mike Pompeo in his recent Hudson Institute speech). It's all about defeating Russia and then China and making sure they don't have an alliance that challenges the US. They must be subjugated beneath the US, no matter what it takes. This must be done even if nuclear war is involved and many people die. We must be the biggest bastard in the valley of the shadow. There can be no off-ramp to this plan.
Pompeo, of course, said no such thing.
Your ability to be manipulated by people like Ben Norton is remarkable.
Your ability to be manipulated by people like Ben Norton is remarkable.
You only listened to the first two minutes. He did say these things, and other neocons have expressed similar. They used to be fringe warhawks. Now they are mainstsream. Even the Democrats embrace this extreme view, which is why even a dolt like Marjorie Taylor Greene has a lane open for common sense.
In the end, Russia (and China) are run by Western friendly leaders and everyone else looks to us for instructions on how to have a "free, democratic system.' Profit soars for weapons industry and the oligarchs (see Hudson Institute donor list). The dollar remains the most important currency in the world, although the American people are just as exploited as everyone else. Their economy continues in austerity mode and ordinary people are desperate and easily used for whatever task their overloads deem important and profitable.
Ok, I know this sounds like a bad version of a Margaret Atwood book, but it's closer to the truth than anything nohero considers reality.
It sounds more like something a character in a bad version of a Margaret Atwood book would say to justify supporting anti-democratic autocrats.
But “China is run by a Western friendly leader” is too clueless for that character to be believable.
Your ability to be manipulated by people like Ben Norton is remarkable.
You only listened to the first two minutes. He did say these things, and other neocons have expressed similar. They used to be fringe warhawks. Now they are mainstsream. Even the Democrats embrace this extreme view, which is why even a dolt like Marjorie Taylor Greene has a lane open for common sense.
In the end, Russia (and China) are run by Western friendly leaders and everyone else looks to us for instructions on how to have a "free, democratic system.' Profit soars for weapons industry and the oligarchs (see Hudson Institute donor list). The dollar remains the most important currency in the world, although the American people are just as exploited as everyone else. Their economy continues in austerity mode and ordinary people are desperate and easily used for whatever task their overloads deem important and profitable.
Ok, I know this sounds like a bad version of a Margaret Atwood book, but it's closer to the truth than anything nohero considers reality.
It sounds more like something a character in a bad version of a Margaret Atwood book would say to justify supporting anti-democratic autocrats.
But “China is run by a Western friendly leader” is too clueless for that character to be believable.
China is their own country. I'm sure you will support going to war with them the way you support going to war with Russia. You probably think the US actually cares about Democracy and human rights.
I bet if Mike Pompeo became a Democrat you would vote for him.
Your ability to be manipulated by people like Ben Norton is remarkable.
You only listened to the first two minutes. He did say these things, and other neocons have expressed similar. They used to be fringe warhawks. Now they are mainstsream. Even the Democrats embrace this extreme view, which is why even a dolt like Marjorie Taylor Greene has a lane open for common sense.
show us the damning portions of it, instead of making me watch Ben Norton maybe lying about telling me what I'm going to hear.
Thanks for this. I will go through and discuss later or tomorrow. You can do the same. Do you agree with him? Do you think he has the right strategy for America?
Your ability to be manipulated by people like Ben Norton is remarkable.
You only listened to the first two minutes. He did say these things, and other neocons have expressed similar. They used to be fringe warhawks. Now they are mainstsream. Even the Democrats embrace this extreme view, which is why even a dolt like Marjorie Taylor Greene has a lane open for common sense.
show us the damning portions of it, instead of making me watch Ben Norton maybe lying about telling me what I'm going to hear.
Thanks for this. I will go through and discuss later or tomorrow. You can do the same. Do you agree with him? Do you think he has the right strategy for America?
I don't think what Pompeo says about anything is terribly important. I certainly wouldn't view him as a spokesman for American or NATO policy.
I watched the first two minutes of this video.
The first minute is Norton telling us that NATO is evil (more or less). He then says, these are not my words, but the words of Pompeo.
Now when someone uses the phrase "these are the words of x" you expect to hear some direct quotes from x.
Not in this case. Norton is just giving his own hyperbolic spin on what Pompeo says.
Anyway, it's just two minutes - someone else watch and give their take on it.
Norton is being pretty dishonest, if you ask me.
And Pompeo is not saying anything out of the ordinary.