Tulsi: Trump: Stop hiding Saudi role in 911 and protecting Al Qaeda
The US started the Syrian War?
cool beans. 
paulsurovell said:
Well (@nohero) your segment also mentions "pro-Russia talking points" so I'm glad to see that you don't consider Sach's comment (below) to be "pro-Russia" (they're not). You're making progress.
"This [Syrian civil war] happened because of [the United States]. These 600,000 [dead] are not just incidental. [The United States] started a war to overthrow a regime. It was covert. It was Operation: Timber Sycamore, people can look it up, the CIA operation. Together with Saudi Arabia, still shrouded in secrecy... A major war effort shrouded in secrecy, never debated by Congress, never explained to the American people. Signed by President Obama. Never explained.
paulsurovell said:Not necessary to "tie" them, it's self-evident. You seem to have an oddly benign view of how Al-Qaeda controls its territories.
Dear Ambassador @McFaul,
I’m a humanitarian-minded Syrian civilian in Qaeda-held territory. I’d like to start a volunteer rescue and aid organization, but I don’t want to get my head blown off by the terrorists. If I discuss my plans with them to clear the way, I’ll be branded a collaborator by Americans who have shed their naivete and know exactly how Qaeda operates in my district.
You’re a worldly guy. What am I supposed to do?
“The Are a White Propaganda Helmets Construct”?
No wonder I can never find the movies you recommend.
It may not be A Russian documentary but . . .
bub said:
It may not be A Russian documentary but . . .
https://medium.com/@Brian_Whit/vanessa-beeley-the-syrian-conflicts-goddess-of-propaganda-2c84f850dba4
We've discussed Ms. Beeley before. Back in December, I quoted from an article that debunked her and her smears..
Russian state media and a network of supportive alternative news sites continue to cast doubt on investigators’ findings, describing it as “illogical” and “deliberately staged” by militants. The alt-right site Infowars repeated the conspiracy theory, describing the attack as staged by the White Helmets, who were described as an “al-Qaida affiliated group funded by George Soros”. The White Helmets have never received funding from George Soros or any of his foundations.
Some of the most vocal sceptics of the UN’s investigation include the blogger Vanessa Beeley, the daughter of a former British diplomat who visited Syria for the first time in July 2016; a University of Sydney senior lecturer, Timothy Anderson, who described the April chemical attack as a “hoax”; and Eva Bartlett, a Canadian writer and activist who said the White Helmets staged rescues using recycled victims – a claim that’s been debunked by Snopes and Channel 4 News.
DaveSchmidt said:
paulsurovell said:Dear Ambassador @McFaul,
Not necessary to "tie" them, it's self-evident. You seem to have an oddly benign view of how Al-Qaeda controls its territories.
I’m a humanitarian-minded Syrian civilian in Qaeda-held territory. I’d like to start a volunteer rescue and aid organization, but I don’t want to get my head blown off by the terrorists. If I discuss my plans with them to clear the way, I’ll be branded a collaborator by Americans who have shed their naivete and know exactly how Qaeda operates in my district.
You’re a worldly guy. What am I supposed to do?
You'd get more accurate advice from a former British ambassador in Syria who knows a lot more about Syria and the Al-Qaeda rebels there:
Yeah, he's been saying it was staged and no one died for some time. Directed by Spielberg, perhaps?
paulsurovell said:
You'd get more accurate advice from a former British ambassador in Syria who knows a lot more about Syria and the Al-Qaeda rebels there:
Yes, it’d be interesting to hear what Ambassador Ford, the director of the British Syrian Society, who describes the White Helmets as “jihadi auxiliaries” and “paid professionals of disinformation,” would counsel a Syrian civilian who wanted to form a rescue and aid organzation in Qaeda-held territory to do.
Previous co-chairman of the British Syrian Society . . . Bashar Al Assad's father in law. I'm surprised by giving legitimacy to anyone associated with this group. Fortunately he was forced to step down.
Sir Andrew Green, a former British ambassador to Syria and co-chairman of the society, admitted it had faced disarray over the past year, and that the emails – especially those showing Akhras advising Assad how to rebut evidence of civilians being tortured – were the last straw.
Paul - perhaps you have an interview in regards to Syria with this British ambassador?
DaveSchmidt said:
paulsurovell said:Yes, it’d be interesting to hear what Ambassador Ford, the director of the British Syrian Society, who describes the White Helmets as “jihadi auxiliaries” and “paid professionals of disinformation,” would counsel a Syrian civilian who wanted to form a rescue and aid organzation in Qaeda-held territory to do.
You'd get more accurate advice from a former British ambassador in Syria who knows a lot more about Syria and the Al-Qaeda rebels there:
He would probably say the best thing to do would be to try to evacuate as many civilians from that territory as possible, if you are willing to take the risk of being beheaded.
paulsurovell said:He would probably say the best thing to do would be to try to evacuate as many civilians from that territory as possible, if you are willing to take the risk of being beheaded.
iswydt.
paulsurovell said:
He would probably say the best thing to do would be to try to evacuate as many civilians from that territory as possible, if you are willing to take the risk of being beheaded.
Would you take that advice? It’s an option.
Another option is to stick around and try to help those who are unable or unwilling to flee their homes, at the cost of some interaction with the Nusra Front. In historical cases — when Nazis occupied a populace’s territory, for instance — we aren’t always so hard on the trade-offs. (Maybe it’s just that the Nazis weren’t quite up to Qaeda standards of local control.)
The big picture of "evacuation" in Syria is the slow ethnic cleansing of majority enthnic groups, mostly Sunnis.
jamie said:
Previous co-chairman of the British Syrian Society . . . Bashar Al Assad's father in law. I'm surprised by giving legitimacy to anyone associated with this group. Fortunately he was forced to step down.
Sir Andrew Green, a former British ambassador to Syria and co-chairman of the society, admitted it had faced disarray over the past year, and that the emails – especially those showing Akhras advising Assad how to rebut evidence of civilians being tortured – were the last straw.Paul - perhaps you have an interview in regards to Syria with this British ambassador?
You can choose to support the regime-change war of Al-Qaeda jihadists or you can choose to support calls for the US and Saudi Arabia to end the war by cutting off their support of the jihadists.
The only viable solution to continued human catastrophe is to restore control of Syria to the Assad government.
It's unfortunate how people can recognize in retrospect, after the fact, that regime-change in Iraq and Libya were historic mistakes and humanitarian disasters, but in real-time when the propaganda was pushing "democracy" and demonizing Saddam and Qaddafi, they were cheerleaders. The same phenomenon is taking place with regard to Syria today.
Peter Ford opposes the regime-change war in Syria. The OPCW found no nerve agents and has been unable to confirm the use of chlorine weapons in the alleged attack in April. There was been reporting on the ground that found no evidence of a chemical attack. Ford's views are consistent with the evidence.
Per your request, not an interview, but an essay, by Sir Andrew Green, which opposes our regime-change war, consistent with Peter Ford.
bub said:
The big picture of "evacuation" in Syria is the slow ethnic cleansing of majority enthnic groups, mostly Sunnis.
Negotiated evacuations have been going on for years in Syria.
https://www.dw.com/en/syria-evacuation-begins-in-besieged-towns/a-38424591
One need not demonize Saddam to recognize that he was a demon. That doesn't mean one supported the invasion of Iraq. Those two things can exist simultaneously. The same rule applies to Assad.
DaveSchmidt said:
paulsurovell said:Would you take that advice? It’s an option.
He would probably say the best thing to do would be to try to evacuate as many civilians from that territory as possible, if you are willing to take the risk of being beheaded.
Another option is to stick around and try to help those who are unable or unwilling to flee their homes, at the cost of some interaction with the Nusra Front. In historical cases — when Nazis occupied a populace’s territory, for instance — we aren’t always so hard on the trade-offs. (Maybe it’s just that the Nazis weren’t quite up to Qaeda standards of local control.)
Do you know of any historic examples of volunteer organizations who went into Nazi-controlled areas to assist civilians (apart from the Resistance)?
paulsurovell said:Peter Ford opposes the regime-change war in Syria. The OPCW found no nerve agents and has been unable to confirm the use of chlorine weapons. There has been reporting on the ground that found no evidence of a chemical attack. Ford's views are consistent with the evidence.
As of July: “Along with explosive residues, various chlorinated organic chemicals were found in samples from two sites, for which there is full chain of custody. Work by the team to establish the significance of these results is on-going. The FFM [Fact-Finding Mission] team will continue its work to draw final conclusions.“
paulsurovell said:
Do you know of any historic examples of volunteer organizations who went into Nazi-controlled areas to assist civilians (apart from the Resistance)?
Apart from the Resistance? I’d have to confirm, but off the top of my head: the Norway resistance and the Jewish partisans in Belarus. Either way, on its own the French Resistance is a rather weighty “apart.”
Still pending:
Would you take that advice? It’s an option.
It occurs to me to anticipate an argument that in those examples, including the Resistance, the participants were actively fighting the occupiers, not simply assisting civilians with humanitarian aid. But since even then they had to literally serve their occupiers at times (a la James Coburn’s rescue at the cafe in “The Great Escape”), it doesn’t trouble me.
The partisans under Tito and in Greece just sprang to mind. So did (with revived awe) the barbershop scene in “Army of Shadows.”
paulsurovell said:
DaveSchmidt said:Do you know of any historic examples of volunteer organizations who went into Nazi-controlled areas to assist civilians (apart from the Resistance)?
paulsurovell said:Would you take that advice? It’s an option.
He would probably say the best thing to do would be to try to evacuate as many civilians from that territory as possible, if you are willing to take the risk of being beheaded.
Another option is to stick around and try to help those who are unable or unwilling to flee their homes, at the cost of some interaction with the Nusra Front. In historical cases — when Nazis occupied a populace’s territory, for instance — we aren’t always so hard on the trade-offs. (Maybe it’s just that the Nazis weren’t quite up to Qaeda standards of local control.)
The International Red Cross did in Greece.
DaveSchmidt said:
It occurs to me to anticipate an argument that in those examples, including the Resistance, the participants were actively fighting the occupiers, not simply assisting civilians with humanitarian aid. But since even then they had to literally serve their occupiers at times (a la James Coburn’s rescue at the cafe in “The Great Escape”), it doesn’t trouble me.
That was my point. Unlikely that anyone went into Nazi-controlled areas as humanitarian volunteers to provide medical assistance.
paulsurovell said:That was my point. Unlikely that anyone went into Nazi-controlled areas as humanitarian volunteers to provide medical assistance.
Excellent. It’s always my aim to understand a point before deciding whether to reject it.
ridski said:
paulsurovell said:The International Red Cross did in Greece.
DaveSchmidt said:Do you know of any historic examples of volunteer organizations who went into Nazi-controlled areas to assist civilians (apart from the Resistance)?
paulsurovell said:Would you take that advice? It’s an option.
He would probably say the best thing to do would be to try to evacuate as many civilians from that territory as possible, if you are willing to take the risk of being beheaded.
Another option is to stick around and try to help those who are unable or unwilling to flee their homes, at the cost of some interaction with the Nusra Front. In historical cases — when Nazis occupied a populace’s territory, for instance — we aren’t always so hard on the trade-offs. (Maybe it’s just that the Nazis weren’t quite up to Qaeda standards of local control.)
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v09/v09p-71_Lang.html
Excellent article which begs the question, is the IRC in Al-Qaeda-controlled areas and if not, why?
paulsurovell said:
ridski said:Excellent article which begs the question, is the IRC in Al-Qaeda-controlled areas and if not, why?
paulsurovell said:The International Red Cross did in Greece.
DaveSchmidt said:Do you know of any historic examples of volunteer organizations who went into Nazi-controlled areas to assist civilians (apart from the Resistance)?
paulsurovell said:Would you take that advice? It’s an option.
He would probably say the best thing to do would be to try to evacuate as many civilians from that territory as possible, if you are willing to take the risk of being beheaded.
Another option is to stick around and try to help those who are unable or unwilling to flee their homes, at the cost of some interaction with the Nusra Front. In historical cases — when Nazis occupied a populace’s territory, for instance — we aren’t always so hard on the trade-offs. (Maybe it’s just that the Nazis weren’t quite up to Qaeda standards of local control.)
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v09/v09p-71_Lang.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/05/world/middleeast/syria-eastern-ghouta-aid.html
They are in there when they are able to get in, via the organization of the Syrian Arab Red Crescent. Sometimes aiding in evacuations, such as this one, or waiting for ceasefires, as they did in Eastern Ghouta earlier this year.
One of the biggest problems, of course, in getting aid to these areas is that government forces won't let anyone in or out. Also, they are prone to having important supplies stripped from their trucks at government checkpoints.
bub said:
It may not be A Russian documentary but . . .
https://medium.com/@Brian_Whit/vanessa-beeley-the-syrian-conflicts-goddess-of-propaganda-2c84f850dba4
If you watch the film I posted, Beeley responds to that article, which is a smear piece.
nohero said:
bub said:We've discussed Ms. Beeley before. Back in December, I quoted from an article that debunked her and her smears..
It may not be A Russian documentary but . . .
https://medium.com/@Brian_Whit/vanessa-beeley-the-syrian-conflicts-goddess-of-propaganda-2c84f850dba4
Russian state media and a network of supportive alternative news sites continue to cast doubt on investigators’ findings, describing it as “illogical” and “deliberately staged” by militants. The alt-right site Infowars repeated the conspiracy theory, describing the attack as staged by the White Helmets, who were described as an “al-Qaida affiliated group funded by George Soros”. The White Helmets have never received funding from George Soros or any of his foundations.
Some of the most vocal sceptics of the UN’s investigation include the blogger Vanessa Beeley, the daughter of a former British diplomat who visited Syria for the first time in July 2016; a University of Sydney senior lecturer, Timothy Anderson, who described the April chemical attack as a “hoax”; and Eva Bartlett, a Canadian writer and activist who said the White Helmets staged rescues using recycled victims – a claim that’s been debunked by Snopes and Channel 4 News.
The article we were discussing last December was a blatant smear piece written by a technology writer who had never been to Syria. Beeley responds to that piece in the video I posted and says why she refused to participate. She has also been blocked from responding to the writer.
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Not necessary to "tie" them, it's self-evident. You seem to have an oddly benign view of how Al-Qaeda controls its territories.