Trustees agree to investigate alternative uses for Village Hall

$13 million in renovations for the existing library, double the cost of Village Hall? Hadn't heard this before.

susan1014 said:

I'm really struggling with "if no one else wants it, we should spend millions to renovate it, even if we have less expensive options elsewhere". I'm sentimental about the building, but I'm not sure how far my sentiment goes.

I'm struggling with what we do with a building that likely no one else wants. Just put a fence around it with signs that say "keep out"?? Would be great for Halloween but that's about it.

rbcole123 said:

$13 million in renovations for the existing library, double the cost of Village Hall? Hadn't heard this before.

I don't know the details and my information could be off, but my understanding is that the $13 million (ish) number would address both the library and the Connett building and be a complete reinvention of the two spaces. Someone with more knowledge than me should feel free to correct me.

I like the idea of renovating the VH for the library, but it will be a hard sell. Many towns and cities have been renovating and upgrading existing library buildings, putting on additions or in some cases just building new buildings. This idea - which if I am getting right - would be to take the library from one building into one which is older and smaller. I suppose it's worth exploring, but it runs counter to what other towns are doing and would require very persuasive and creative backers.

apple44 said:

I like the idea of renovating the VH for the library, but it will be a hard sell. Many towns and cities have been renovating and upgrading existing library buildings, putting on additions or in some cases just building new buildings. This idea - which if I am getting right - would be to take the library from one building into one which is older and smaller. I suppose it's worth exploring, but it runs counter to what other towns are doing and would require very persuasive and creative backers.

I just did some sleuthing and it appears that Village Hall is 12,829 square feet and the Library is 16,900 square feet. So, if these numbers of accurate and reflect usable space, it would be a reduction of size, but not ridiculously so. If the Library were to aggressively expand their digital square footage and offer hundreds of e-readers for loan, I believe they could more than make up for the loss of 4,000 square feet.

That said, it's also possible an addition could be built on top of or next to the wing where the building department was housed in Village Hall, getting back that square footage that would be loss. The sale of the current library property to a developer could create funds to convert Village Hall into the kind of space the Library desires. And I love the idea of the Library being in a higher foot trafficked, more desirable downtown location.

Personally, I think a digital expansion is FAR more important than a physical expansion and would better serve the residents and Library patrons. Our municipalities—especially ones with such high taxes—need to start thinking about decreasing their physical footprints, not increasing them.

Saving a potential eight figures, particularly when faced with absolutely enormous capital bonding needs, shouldn't require THAT much of a hard sell.

Maybe. I know very little about the library management and board, and how independent they are from the town. Going to a group of people and saying, "hey, we're going to move you into a building that is smaller and older!" - yep, I think the proponents of that are going to have to be very persuasive and creative. I like the idea and think it is worth pursuing.

The city seems to have many great examples of older library buildings being updated, just not sure how much of it is done out here. This is in a 23,000 s.f. NYPL branch.

One of the problems might be that a reason the Library wants to connect with the Connett Building is that at present there isn't enough meeting space. Moving into a smaller space would not help.

I like the idea. I think that having the Library in that location would be a wonderful asset to the town. It would increase foot traffic and help to revitalize that part of the downtown.

Somethingz_Fishy said:

apple44 said:

I like the idea of renovating the VH for the library, but it will be a hard sell. Many towns and cities have been renovating and upgrading existing library buildings, putting on additions or in some cases just building new buildings. This idea - which if I am getting right - would be to take the library from one building into one which is older and smaller. I suppose it's worth exploring, but it runs counter to what other towns are doing and would require very persuasive and creative backers.

I just did some sleuthing and it appears that Village Hall is 12,829 square feet and the Library is 16,900 square feet. So, if these numbers of accurate and reflect usable space, it would be a reduction of size, but not ridiculously so. If the Library were to aggressively expand their digital square footage and offer hundreds of e-readers for loan, I believe they could more than make up for the loss of 4,000 square feet.

That said, it's also possible an addition could be built on top of or next to the wing where the building department was housed in Village Hall, getting back that square footage that would be loss. The sale of the current library property to a developer could create funds to convert Village Hall into the kind of space the Library desires. And I love the idea of the Library being in a higher foot trafficked, more desirable downtown location.

Personally, I think a digital expansion is FAR more important than a physical expansion and would better serve the residents and Library patrons. Our municipalities—especially ones with such high taxes—need to start thinking about decreasing their physical footprints, not increasing them.

Do you know if the 12,829 space includes the garage-type space at the back? Seems to me that could easily become meeting room space.

I do not know but with enough money, I'm confident there are a number of options.

Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't say thank you for the compliments. You guys are very kind, though I imagine that "brilliant" may be a tad of an overstatement

But I do care passionately for South Orange and as someone who understands how living here can be financially constraining, I am an advocate for creative thinking that will help us tame our incredibly high taxes.

(Also, in reference to comments above, I'd be happy letting someone else take credit for the idea of it meant that it actually happened! Ideas are cheap; the ability to act on them is everything.)

Somethingz_Fishy said:

Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't say thank you for the compliments. You guys are very kind, though I imagine that "brilliant" may be a tad of an overstatement

But I do care passionately for South Orange and as someone who understands how living here can be financially constraining, I am an advocate for creative thinking that will help us tame our incredibly high taxes.

(Also, in reference to comments above, I'd be happy letting someone else take credit for the idea of it meant that it actually happened! Ideas are cheap; the ability to act on them is everything.)

This is why we all love you.

Couple of things:

Keep in mind that the Connett buildiing has a deed restriction by Mr. Connett when he donated the land that the property has to be used for "educational purposes". Can't just be sold to a "developer".

I remember that when the whole question of Village Hall came up initially, an RFI (hope that's right "word") was proposed, a booklet prepared and distributed, and there was no interest. The real estate market at the time was horrible, and I don't know how widely it was distributed and promoted. Maybe they could refer back to that booklet for ideas to get the new one rolling.

Someone mentioned (I think, read this kind of fast) that the asbestos abatement could be taken from the Historic Trust Funds grant. The grant is ONLY for the exterior of the building.

At the meeting, Jackie Herships, a dedicated +local resident, suggested the possibility of EB5 funding, and she knows an attorney who is experienced in this. I don't know a lot about this myself, but I know it has been used in NYC for public projects. Read more:
https://iiusa.org/en/the-association-to-invest-in-usa-iiusa/?gclid=CJP5usKjlb8CFW4Q7AodQxgAtg

There are 14 "regional" centers for NJ (altho some are as far away as Texas???) but to see some of the projects which EB5 has financed, check:
http://nycrc.com/

Mabye if a developer were to develop the library property, it could be stipulated that the Connett building has to be restored and dedicated as public reading/meeting space.

Maybe a developer could get the block, use the Connet facade, build a large condo type place with a garage and in lieu of a pilot donate a floor to be a library space.

Frumious- I was the one who suggested that the total asbestos abatement costs of $507,000 ($427,000 for abatement and $80,000 for engineer) could be looked at as having been offset by the $669,000 grant from the NJHT, with around $150,000 left over. This was in the context of how to look at these costs if in fact the building is sold.
It's my understanding that if the building is sold with the condition that it can't be demolished or the exterior changed, South Orange can keep the $669,000, even though the grant wasn't used on the exterior and there is something extra that SO can keep.

Are you suggesting that SO can't keep the $669,000 if none of it was used on the exterior?

eta - With regard to the EB5 program (about which I knew nothing until Jackie Herships talked about it Monday evening and then looking at your link,) I'm linking information about the EB5 program from the link that you provided: https://iiusa.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/About-the-EB5-program.pdf

It seems that Village Hall is not a candidate for this program. The link says "Under the program, each investor is required to demonstrate that at least 10 new jobs were created or saved as a result of the EB5 investment." I don't think that this is the case with Village Hall. Furthermore, looking at the list of cases in which the EB5 program was used, they are all commercial projects. Village Hall is not a commercial project.

The Connett Bldg may be the saddest example - although it's got some good competition from Village Hall and the Old Stone House - of the truly awful stewards that the SO Boards of Trustees, collectively, for at least the last 40 years, maybe longer, have been of our municipal assets.

Mr. Connett donated the land for the library. Private donations, and probably some currently available Village funds, paid for construction. The Connett Bldg was delivered to the residents of South Orange debt free - all we had to do was maintain it.

For anyone who hasn't noticed, just look at the damage that has been caused by the simple absence of functioning gutters and leaders (ie, look at the corners of the buildings where the leaders are/supposed to be and the extent of the masonry damage).

Or look at the windows - there are literally thousands of homes in South Orange with windows that are just as old, or older, and are also made of wood - but very few of the household windows are in the poor, peeled paint condition of the Connett Bldg. windows.

I'll once again, to MWers protests, float the idea that SO govt should continue in 76 SO Avenue and prepare for the gradual dissolution of SO as a distinct municipality. Have SO be a separate zip and named area, like Short Hills is in Millburn Township.

Raze Village Hall. Save Connett Bldg. Get ourselves to point financially that MW will vote for annexation.

ivan said:

The Connett Bldg may be the saddest example - although it's got some good competition from Village Hall and the Old Stone House - of the truly awful stewards that the SO Boards of Trustees, collectively, for at least the last 40 years, maybe longer, have been of our municipal assets.

Mr. Connett donated the land for the library. Private donations, and probably some currently available Village funds, paid for construction. The Connett Bldg was delivered to the residents of South Orange debt free - all we had to do was maintain it.

For anyone who hasn't noticed, just look at the damage that has been caused by the simple absence of functioning gutters and leaders (ie, look at the corners of the buildings where the leaders are/supposed to be and the extent of the masonry damage).

Or look at the windows - there are literally thousands of homes in South Orange with windows that are just as old, or older, and are also made of wood - but very few of the household windows are in the poor, peeled paint condition of the Connett Bldg. windows.

I'll once again, to MWers protests, float the idea that SO govt should continue in 76 SO Avenue and prepare for the gradual dissolution of SO as a distinct municipality. Have SO be a separate zip and named area, like Short Hills is in Millburn Township.

Raze Village Hall. Save Connett Bldg. Get ourselves to point financially that MW will vote for annexation.

Thank you for noticing.

Why not sell to someone else who would pay for the renovation?

yahooyahoo said:

Why not sell to someone else who would pay for the renovation?

Yes - I hear Warren Buffet (Berkshire Hathaway) just bought Prudential Realty. Maybe he would be interested. LOL!!!

yahooyahoo said:

Why not sell to someone else who would pay for the renovation?

It's a money pit that no one wants "as is". Not even for one dollar.

It's really hilarious to read the quote in today's News Record supporting the sale of Village Hall in contrast to the response given back in February.
According to the Meeting Minutes from the Feb 24, 2014 meeting:
Trustees Rosner and Ford both stated they would not want to see any delays incurred with the renovations
and would not want to have to give back the Grant the Village has already received.

Village President, Alex Torpey asked for a Straw Poll to reissue [the RFEI]

Yeas: Collum
Nays: All other Trustees

From today's News Record about the June 23, 2014 meeting:
"It behooves us to look at all possibilities as stewards for the residents," Trustee Deborah Davis Ford said at the meeting

I'm glad there was ultimately a turnaround, but it's unfortunate it took 4 months to get there.

And it was front page of the Gaslight I received yesterday

Davis-Ford is a willow in the wind, blowing whichever way the prevailing wind blows. It is really obnoxious. Have your own opinion, Ms. D-F. You did when it came to firing Robin Klein.

jayjayp said:

Davis-Ford is a willow in the wind, blowing whichever way the prevailing wind blows.

Maybe between February and now, she sensed the winds of her May 2015 bid for re-election, which would be 18 months into the $7M+ VH renovation sinkhole.

RFP for the sale of Village Hall is now posted online: http://southorange.org/Requests/VillageHallRFP.asp

Be sure to share as widely as possible.

Do we know if a commercial real estate broker would take the listing as a gesture of good will toward the village considering that the sale price is likely to be next to nothing? If it could be put on some multiple listing service for commercial buildings, it would get wider exposure.

Good Morning MOLers,

Early this morning, we did a walk through of Village Hall with our Marketing Consultant and the Village’s Development Committee. Thought you may be interested in seeing some of the photos of what the inside of this building currently looks like.

And this is pretty cool - I took this shot from the window of the tower.

Thanks, interesting.