The New York Times - They're even more evil now
ml1 said:
Or we can criticize in the hope that they do better. And thanks to social media, they are doing better. So why shouldn't we continue to call out these news orgs if they're listening and trying to improve?
But you said you didn’t want to know what goes on in the workings, influencing the decisions made/not made to your satisfaction. In your analogy, ‘what’s gone wrong in the kitchen’. You can’t have it both ways, especially when when the end-product isn’t not meant to be replicable to the same extent as a meal.
Note, please, I’m commenting on the analogy/simile/example. Dave is more than capable of explaining the professional bind and the processes, and he uses the same vernacular. I’ve been caught out before, saying something that would be ok here but that has a slightly different twist there.
In an effort to get out of the finer points of dining, I was surprised to the recent Biden quote dissing 10 to 15% of American voters get a pass.
Mrs. C. lost an election with her “basket of deplorables” blunder.
Pretty much the same blunder by Biden — perhaps due to the many gaffes produced daily, this one slipped on by.
joanne said:
But you said you didn’t want to know what goes on in the workings, influencing the decisions made/not made to your satisfaction. In your analogy, ‘what’s gone wrong in the kitchen’. You can’t have it both ways, especially when when the end-product isn’t not meant to be replicable to the same extent as a meal.
Note, please, I’m commenting on the analogy/simile/example. Dave is more than capable of explaining the professional bind and the processes, and he uses the same vernacular. I’ve been caught out before, saying something that would be ok here but that has a slightly different twist there.
if you think the analogy is not apt, let's leave that aside. There comes a point when multiple criticisms are met with these various responses that it starts to seem like excuse-making and blame shifting.
mtierney said:
In an effort to get out of the finer points of dining, I was surprised to the recent Biden quote dissing 10 to 15% of American voters get a pass.
Mrs. C. lost an election with her “basket of deplorables” blunder.
Pretty much the same blunder by Biden — perhaps due to the many gaffes produced daily, this one slipped on by.
it's only a problem for him if people like yourself think he's referring to them. If you don't think you are in that group, what's the problem?
ml1 said:
it's only a problem for him if people like yourself think he's referring to them. If you don't think you are in that group, what's the problem?
The problem may be Biden’s in November.
mtierney said:
The problem may be Biden’s in November.
serious question -- do you think Biden was referring to you or anyone you know among that 10-15%? Because if not, who are you being outraged on behalf of?
mtierney said:
In an effort to get out of the finer points of dining, I was surprised to the recent Biden quote dissing 10 to 15% of American voters get a pass.
Mrs. C. lost an election with her “basket of deplorables” blunder.
Pretty much the same blunder by Biden — perhaps due to the many gaffes produced daily, this one slipped on by.
where did he say voters?
Oh, he didn't.
Not even close to what Hillary said. Not even close.
you haven't commented on whether you think he was wrong.
What's your estimate of the number of bad people?
dave,
so, do you think the piece should not have been printed? Or do you just think that a process failed that allowed it to be printed? Or, bad process or not, it was useful to print it?
And, it turns out, that the op-ed was actually solicited by the Times, so that may throw all of your process arguments out the window. The point of failure was before the process could even get started.
ml1 said:
mtierney said:
In an effort to get out of the finer points of dining, I was surprised to the recent Biden quote dissing 10 to 15% of American voters get a pass.
Mrs. C. lost an election with her “basket of deplorables” blunder.
Pretty much the same blunder by Biden — perhaps due to the many gaffes produced daily, this one slipped on by.
it's only a problem for him if people like yourself think he's referring to them. If you don't think you are in that group, what's the problem?
Ms. Mtierney brought that up on another thread, and must not have been able to deal with the intelligent responses there. So, it's been brought to this thread which is about news reporting, not candidates.
Her post is appropriate because it demonstrates that, no matter how accurate a news source may be, there will always be people who only hear what they want to hear. Ms. Mtierney wants to hear negative things about Biden, and ignore worse from Trump.
And, of course, relies on some misquote or partial quote instead of the actual words.
drummerboy said:
dave,
When my comments come off as arguments or defensive excuses, they don’t add information or perspective to the forum the way I intend them to, so I’ve bowed out of contributing. I’m not interested in arguing.
ml1 said:
serious question -- do you think Biden was referring to you or anyone you know among that 10-15%? Because if not, who are you being outraged on behalf of?
My fellow Americans.
mtierney said:
ml1 said:
serious question -- do you think Biden was referring to you or anyone you know among that 10-15%? Because if not, who are you being outraged on behalf of?
My fellow Americans.
Your fellow Americans include looters, vandals,criminals of all sorts, racists, anti-semites and bigots. The figure of 10-15% may be accurate.
No candidate for President should appeal to them for their votes.
STANV said:
Your fellow Americans include looters, vandals,criminals of all sorts, racists, anti-semites and bigots. The figure of 10-15% may be accurate.
No candidate for President should appeal to them for their votes.
the figure of 10-15% may be too low. Trump still has over 40% approval.
ml1 said:
STANV said:
Your fellow Americans include looters, vandals,criminals of all sorts, racists, anti-semites and bigots. The figure of 10-15% may be accurate.
No candidate for President should appeal to them for their votes.
the figure of 10-15% may be too low. Trump still has over 40% approval.
Well, yeah. Hillary pretty much got the percentage right with her deplorables analysis.
drummerboy said:
Well, yeah. Hillary pretty much got the percentage right with her deplorables analysis.
I've got to say this week has given me hope that a lot of people really want to finally see real change. But it's also been depressing at the same time to see how many people just don't get it. I'm a member of a couple of Springsteen FB fan groups. You'd figure those would be about as far left as any mainstream groups you'd find on FB. Over the past couple of weeks, Bruce's comments on Trump and on racism in the U.S. have triggered so many of these people it's unbelievable. There are so many people who are unreachable on issues of race because they won't listen. They don't hear.
The NYT announced yesterday that James Bennett has resigned from his post. James Dao, the deputy editorial page editor, is stepping down and taking a new job in the newsroom.
ml1 said:
drummerboy said:
Well, yeah. Hillary pretty much got the percentage right with her deplorables analysis.
I've got to say this week has given me hope that a lot of people really want to finally see real change. But it's also been depressing at the same time to see how many people just don't get it. I'm a member of a couple of Springsteen FB fan groups. You'd figure those would be about as far left as any mainstream groups you'd find on FB. Over the past couple of weeks, Bruce's comments on Trump and on racism in the U.S. have triggered so many of these people it's unbelievable. There are so many people who are unreachable on issues of race because they won't listen. They don't hear.
I'm not surprised that many Springsteen fans are Trump fans. I'm surprised that you're surprised.
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-ca-springsteen-trump-20161019-snap-story.html
cramer said:
The NYT announced yesterday that James Bennett has resigned from his post. James Dao, the deputy editorial page editor, is stepping down and taking a new job in the newsroom.
Update....
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/business/media/james-bennet-resigns-nytimes-op-ed.html
cramer said:
I'm not surprised that many Springsteen fans are Trump fans. I'm surprised that you're surprised.
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-ca-springsteen-trump-20161019-snap-story.html
I know there are a lot of Trumpers in the fan base. I was more surprised at the number of them who have been so triggered by even the mildest comments. It's like they know these are Springsteen's attitudes, they've known it for decades but when he criticizes Trump they lose their ****. At this point I can only conclude that a lot of MAGAs have such a close personal identification with Trump that criticism of him equates to criticism of them. And it must hurt more coming from a performer they're big fans of.
ml1 said:
cramer said:
I'm not surprised that many Springsteen fans are Trump fans. I'm surprised that you're surprised.
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-ca-springsteen-trump-20161019-snap-story.html
I know there are a lot of Trumpers in the fan base. I was more surprised at the number of them who have been so triggered by even the mildest comments. It's like they know these are Springsteen's attitudes, they've known it for decades but when he criticizes Trump they lose their ****. At this point I can only conclude that a lot of MAGAs have such a close personal identification with Trump that criticism of him equates to criticism of them. And it must hurt more coming from a performer they're big fans of.
I wonder if they understand "Born in the USA".
terp said:
I wonder if they understand "Born in the USA".
I'm sure they do. That was referring to one of those "Democrat wars."
ml1 said:
cramer said:
I'm not surprised that many Springsteen fans are Trump fans. I'm surprised that you're surprised.
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-ca-springsteen-trump-20161019-snap-story.html
I know there are a lot of Trumpers in the fan base. I was more surprised at the number of them who have been so triggered by even the mildest comments. It's like they know these are Springsteen's attitudes, they've known it for decades but when he criticizes Trump they lose their ****. At this point I can only conclude that a lot of MAGAs have such a close personal identification with Trump that criticism of him equates to criticism of them. And it must hurt more coming from a performer they're big fans of.
It's been going on for over thirty years. Some lost their **** when he talked about Vietnam in concert and on his live album "1975-1985". They lost their **** when he premiered "American Skin" (which is 20 ******* years ago, and still we're talking about this ****). They lost their **** with "Vote for Change". They've just been losing their **** at a more rapid pace as the years go by.
Our former Dear Governor Chris Christie exemplifies this cluelessness, as seen in this interview from 2012:
Goldberg: Talk about the politics more. Springsteen sometimes used to say "Nobody wins unless--"
Christie: "Unless everybody wins."
Goldberg: I always had a logic problem with that. If everybody wins, no one wins, I guess I mean. There's no delineation. How do you judge who won?
Christie: Yeah, he wants everybody onboard the train. That's a theme. But America is also a place that will reward you for hard work. Some people have more natural talents than other people. Like Bruce Springsteen. I don't square it. It's one of those things that doesn't make sense to me. What the hell is he talking about? It's one of those things he says that doesn't make sense.
nohero said:
yeah, I guess social media is just putting those reactions in front of me a lot more often. And it's making the intense anger more apparent.
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nah. There's always a new smh moment from the NYT.