The Kavanaugh Hearing

Morganna said:
 Worth considering that he has 2 daughters and he coaches their basketball team. Does he want discussions about high school binge drinking to be the subject of gossip among their peers?  Even without the sexual assault discussion, denying the heavy drinking will be next to impossible. He can use the standby excuse that he is innocent but he doesn't want to put his family through it.

When I was raising them, I told my kids that when I was in college, I became addicted to weed. I couldn't lie, and I used it as a warning about how it made life difficult for me. But parents can and will take different approaches.

ml1 said:
anyone who's scoffing at my insistence that the parties aren't at all equivalent -- only one party could have given the country the likes of Donald Trump as president. Try to imagine the Democrats nominating Rosie O'Donnell for president. It would be preposterous to consider. Yet the GOP did the right wing version of that. 

Democrats highly value intellectualism, so I don't think the Democrats would ever nominate someone as ignorant as Donald Trump, but I think it is possible for the Democrats to nominate someone who is just as far from the median voter as Trump is.

I base this (hypothetical assertion) on the McGovern nomination back in 1972 and Jeremy Corbyn's leadership of the Labour Party.  

Runner_Guy said:

ml1 said:
anyone who's scoffing at my insistence that the parties aren't at all equivalent -- only one party could have given the country the likes of Donald Trump as president. Try to imagine the Democrats nominating Rosie O'Donnell for president. It would be preposterous to consider. Yet the GOP did the right wing version of that. 

Democrats highly value intellectualism, so I don't think the Democrats would ever nominate someone as ignorant as Donald Trump, but I think it is possible for the Democrats to nominate someone who is just as far from the median voter as Trump is.
I base this (hypothetical assertion) on the McGovern nomination back in 1972 and Jeremy Corbyn's leadership of the Labour Party.  

really?  what person could possibly be that far out of step with voters?

Democratic primary voters rejected Bernie Sanders, a man who has spent a lifetime in Congress, as "unelectable."  There isn't a plausible Democratic presidential candidate who is out of step with the median voter.  Things like single-payer health insurance, affordable college, and a living wage for workers are popular with a large segment of the population.  And that's about as far left as any potential Democratic candidate would be.

and all that aside, Trump isn't out of step with his party from a policy standpoint.  He's an outlier because he's extreme in his malignant narcissism and proud ignorance.  There is nobody like that on the left who would ever be nominated by the Democratic Party.

Two Thirds of Americans Support Free College

Poll: Bipartisan majority supports raising minimum wage

Seventy percent of Americans support 'Medicare for all' in new poll

About six-in-ten Americans support marijuana legalization

Public Split on Basic Income for Workers Replaced by Robots

Didn't his friend, Judge, basically confirm that Kavanaugh was at that party?

Morganna said:

Tom_Reingold said:

Morganna said:
Just heard that in high school he was in the 100 keg club. I believe it was in the yearbook. The goal being to drink that amount during senior year so probably had his share of blackouts. I think if his friend who was a witness and apparently wrote about his own alcoholism, is interviewed, there will be a shadow cast on Ks denial.
With the rehash of the Anita Hill testimony, I think congress will be afraid to confirm him.
I think he will withdraw.

 I hope you are right!

 Worth considering that he has 2 daughters and he coaches their basketball team. Does he want discussions about high school binge drinking to be the subject of gossip among their peers?  Even without the sexual assault discussion, denying the heavy drinking will be next to impossible. He can use the standby excuse that he is innocent but he doesn't want to put his family through it.

Meh.  Setting aside the assault discussion, the drinking is a no-brainer to explain.  “I did some reckless and stupid things when I was in high school that I’ve regretted.  Don’t do what I did.  Etc.”  The subject of gossip among some of his kids’ peers, if it’s anything at all like many other kids in high school, may very well be along the lines of whether or not he could hook them up with a keg or two. 

Or, he could utter something hilariously stupid and comparative to “I didn’t inhale”, and then hope it doesn’t become etched in our collective memory. 

peaceinourtime said:
Didn't his friend, Judge, basically confirm that Kavanaugh was at that party?

 I don't think Kavanaugh has denied being at the party

apple44 said:

peaceinourtime said:
Didn't his friend, Judge, basically confirm that Kavanaugh was at that party?

 I don't think Kavanaugh has denied being at the party

"NEWS: @OrrinHatch just spoke to Kavanaugh and Kavaaugh denies being at the party in question per a Hatch aide. Hatch told me kavanaugh is “honest” and “straightforward” and said after talkng to Kavanaugh the woman might be “mixed up”"

https://twitter.com/LACaldwellDC/status/1041751596810559490

Judge should be called to testify. 

Senate Judiciary Committee will hear testimony from both Kavanaugh and Dr. Christine Blasey Ford on Monday, September 24, beginning at 10:00 a.m.

cramer said:

apple44 said:

peaceinourtime said:
Didn't his friend, Judge, basically confirm that Kavanaugh was at that party?

 I don't think Kavanaugh has denied being at the party

"NEWS: @OrrinHatch just spoke to Kavanaugh and Kavaaugh denies being at the party in question per a Hatch aide. Hatch told me kavanaugh is “honest” and “straightforward” and said after talkng to Kavanaugh the woman might be “mixed up”"
https://twitter.com/LACaldwellDC/status/1041751596810559490



Judge should be called to testify. 


 

 that's a joke. One thing Kavanaugh has NOT been through this entire process is honest and straightforward. He has no credibility whatsoever. 

Don Trump Jr, posted this. Classy, as usual -

Two thoughts

1) Only a group of men would think that by producing a list of people a man didn’t rape, is evidence that the man could not possibly be a rapist.  I’m

sure every man convicted of rape could find a list of women he didn’t rape.

2). Men don’t rape women because they want to date them, or respect their intellect, or think they will like them better when they see their majestic penis.  They do it because they think they have power or entitlement to do whatever they want, whether it’s at a party, in a parking lot, walking alone on a street, or in your house after you have told them no.  It’s not the sex, it’s the getting to do whatever I want because I am bigger and stronger.

ctrzaska said:

Meh.  Setting aside the assault discussion, the drinking is a no-brainer to explain.  “I did some reckless and stupid things when I was in high school that I’ve regretted.  Don’t do what I did.  Etc.”  The subject of gossip among some of his kids’ peers, if it’s anything at all like many other kids in high school, may very well be along the lines of whether or not he could hook them up with a keg or two. 

 The assault discussion is the difficult thing to explain to his kids, not his high school drinking.  The type of assault Dr. Ford alleges is all too common and, therefore, her story is completely credible.

During his appearance in front of congress, I was struck by Kavanaugh's mention of his relationship to the Catholic Church not only today but in his youth as an altar boy. I went to a Catholic High School against my will but I was curious about the fact that this incident would have occurred during this period so I did a little research and found this. Enzler, is Monsignor Enzler, and it was a Jesuit school which usually means fairly strict and this relates to the topic we are discussing.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/brett-kavanaughs-religious-upbringing-shaped-thinking-131552610.html

from the article:

Enzler was in his 30s when Kavanaugh was a teenager. He said that in many ways Kavanaugh and his friends were just regular teenagers — loud, funny, tongue-in-cheek — but that they were also active with service projects starting around confirmation. He said Kavanaugh never fell into a bad crowd and lived out Jesuit values, even on weekends.

“You know, teenage parties can be a little wild, a little crazy, but I don’t remember seeing much of that from the kids,” Enzler said. “These were not kids going out and getting drunk or using drugs. They were already living the values when they had very little adult supervision. They just knew who they were.”

Morganna said:

During his appearance in front of congress, I was struck by Kavanaugh's mention of his relationship to the Catholic Church not only today but in his youth as an altar boy. I went to a Catholic High School against my will but I was curious about the fact that this incident would have occurred during this period so I did a little research and found this. Enzler, is Monsignor Enzler, and it was a Jesuit school which usually means fairly strict and this relates to the topic we are discussing.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/brett-kavanaughs-religious-upbringing-shaped-thinking-131552610.html
from the article:
Enzler was in his 30s when Kavanaugh was a teenager. He said that in many ways Kavanaugh and his friends were just regular teenagers — loud, funny, tongue-in-cheek — but that they were also active with service projects starting around confirmation. He said Kavanaugh never fell into a bad crowd and lived out Jesuit values, even on weekends.
“You know, teenage parties can be a little wild, a little crazy, but I don’t remember seeing much of that from the kids,” Enzler said. “These were not kids going out and getting drunk or using drugs. They were already living the values when they had very little adult supervision. They just knew who they were.”

 Kavanaugh's classmate and "exculpatory witness" is Mark Judge, who wrote a memoir about his high school days.  Based on how Mr. Judge described his high school years, it looks like Msgr. Enzler failed to notice a few things.

unfortunately, Catholic monsignors have been really, really good at not noticing things over the years.  The fact that Enzler was unaware isn't particularly convincing.

I think Catholicism in specific, and society in general, has a large blind spot here -- "here" being not just questions of sexual assault, but more broadly the issue of gendered power dynamics. Look at Francis' papacy, for example. In many ways he's been all one could reasonably hope for in a pontiff, yet by almost any yardstick he has fallen woefully short on addressing the issue of abuse by priests. Even if one discounts Viganò's accusations, Francis has been very slow on this issue. One gets the sense, listening to him, that he doesn't fully grasp the depth or breadth of the problem. And if Francis can't, maybe this points beyond a personal failing, but to the limits of a patriarchal, hierarchical institution to every fully understand this. 

This is one of the main points of #metoo isn't it? People keep talking like it's about punishing powerful men, but it's about this inability (or refusal?) to really see.

Or to put it more pithily, quoting nohero -- "it looks like Msgr. Enzler failed to notice a few things."

tjohn said:

ctrzaska said:

Meh.  Setting aside the assault discussion, the drinking is a no-brainer to explain.  “I did some reckless and stupid things when I was in high school that I’ve regretted.  Don’t do what I did.  Etc.”  The subject of gossip among some of his kids’ peers, if it’s anything at all like many other kids in high school, may very well be along the lines of whether or not he could hook them up with a keg or two. 

 The assault discussion is the difficult thing to explain to his kids, not his high school drinking.  The type of assault Dr. Ford alleges is all too common and, therefore, her story is completely credible.

I agree.  Which is why bringing it up received the response from me that it did. 

I agree with the above posts, I just found it ironic that the topic of drinking was even mentioned by Enzler.

As far as the sexual assault goes, the fact that another male was in the room, made me think that this was some kind of dare or initiation. If he was that very religious guy, it might have been a "prove yourself " moment.

The other male supposedly stopped it, but he may have been the guy that encouraged it which would make him complicit.  She does describe the other male as jumping on top of them to stop it which seems like an odd way to go about it.

It reminded me of that Jodie Foster movie, The Accused.

Morganna said:
I agree with the above posts, I just found it ironic that the topic of drinking was even mentioned by Enzler.
As far as the sexual assault goes, the fact that another male was in the room, made me think that this was some kind of dare or initiation. If he was that very religious guy, it might have been a "prove yourself " moment.

The other male supposedly stopped it, but he may have been the guy that encouraged it which would make him complicit.  She does describe the other male as jumping on top of them to stop it which seems like an odd way to go about it.
It reminded me of that Jodie Foster movie, The Accused.

 Uh, no.  I was a couple years behind him,  I went to a private/elementary school that sent many boys to Prep.  Throughout high school, I went to quite a few parties thrown by Prep boys. In high school I also hosted a party that was attended by quite a few Prep boys.  One puked on my mom's Oriental rug, another beat a smoke detector with a bat because it kept going off.

There was plenty of unsupervised drinking and hooking up at these parties, mostly it was normal teen stuff, although I am not at all surprised if someone was assaulted.  Some of these boys were pigs.  There was no religious ritual or dare, it was just drunk boys on a weekend night.

She doesn't remember the house or the date.

He swears he wasn't there.

her therapists notes indicate that the incident occurred with respect to boys from an “elitist school”.  Meanwhile,  Holton Arms tuition is appr. 40 grand a year and includes alums like Brooke Astor and Elaine from Seinfeld.

Georgetown Prep is $60,289  a year.

that for full board.  Day school is cheaper.  But I suppose the 40 K crowd thinks the 60K crowd is elitist.  I guess it’s all relative.

Robert Casotto, among the elite, these things are not about money. Everybody has that.

What bugs me about him (aside from the rape accusations - can the committee just swipe left already?!) is that Kavanaugh led the charge about Bill and Hillary's involvement in Vince Foster's death, which was the smarmiest and most (cough) trumped up accusation in    Kenneth Star's investigation.

Now he believes a sitting president can't be subjected to what he, personally, did to a sitting president.

https://heavy.com/news/2018/07/brett-kavanaugh-ken-starr-report-clinton/

I think the accuser may be overplaying her hand. By insisting on an FBI investigation, she runs the risk of appearing to be politically motivated. First the questionable last-minute timing in coming forward, now another tactic that would delay and buy Democrats more time before the midterms.  

She has a great opportunity to tell her story to the world on Monday. Full, raw, and unvarnished. The more she speaks through lawyers and negotiates, seeks preconditions etc, the more people are going to question her motives IMO.

Bob Corker, one of the few GOPers who's not a Trump lackey, said if Blasey Ford doesnt participate on Monday, they should go ahead and vote. I don't think that's an unreasonable view.

Smedley said:
I think the accuser may be overplaying her hand. By insisting on an FBI investigation, she runs the risk of appearing to be politically motivated. 
 

I think she's scared s***less by the threats coming from the right and is looking for cover and maybe time.

dave23 said:

Smedley said:
I think the accuser may be overplaying her hand. By insisting on an FBI investigation, she runs the risk of appearing to be politically motivated. 
 

I think she's scared s***less by the threats coming from the right and is looking for cover and maybe time.

 Exactly.  She's been threatened, her personal information has been disseminated to the "flying monkeys" of the right, and she's even been impersonated via fake social media accounts.

"Insisting on an FBI investigation" doesn't translate as "politically motivated".  

The demand by the GOP members that in lieu of any further investigation she appear in person, at the same time and at the same table as Kavanaugh, her (alleged) would-be rapist, and submit to amateurish questioning designed to make her look bad and not elicit confirming information, is "politically motivated".

That's one way to look at it. 

But however imperfect the Monday opportunity may be, she has a much better chance to sway public opinion, and by extension peel off yes votes on Kavanaugh's confirmation, by showing up and telling her story.