The Israeli-Palestinian conflict

LOST

Dec 29, 2016 at 10:46am Edited

paulsurovell said:

Good editorial

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/28/opinion/is-israel-abandoning-a-two-state-solution.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share&_r=0

From that Editorial:

"The United Nations is shamefully biased against Israel",

There are many American Jews who will not read the NY Times because they believe it to be "shamefully biased against Israel"

Again form the Editorial:

"But the Israeli far right has long imagined a different scenario: Egypt would be somehow induced to take control of the Gaza Strip, while Israel would hold most of the West Bank and somehow offload the bulk of its Palestinian residents into Jordan. Jerusalem, presumably, would be entirely under Israeli control.
This one-state solution may remain a fantasy, but it’s gathering adherents. In an opinion piece in The Wall Street Journal on Monday, John Bolton, a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and a former American ambassador to the United Nations, advanced just this scenario. Mr. Bolton is said to be on President-elect Donald Trump’s list as a possible deputy secretary of state."

At this point the Two-State solution seems also to be a fantasy.

LOST

Dec 29, 2016 at 10:51am

paulsurovell said:

cramer said:

Breaking (old) news: Abbas says he's ready to resume peace talks if Israel freezes settlements.

eta: inserted "old"

Sounds like a reasonable proposal to me. Settlements are illegal and pernicious.

And Netanyahu saying he is ready to meet with no preconditions also "sounds reasonable" but each knows that the other cannot agree so they are both full of it.

paulsurovell

Dec 29, 2016 at 12:41pm

LOST said:
paulsurovell said:
cramer said:

Breaking (old) news: Abbas says he's ready to resume peace talks if Israel freezes settlements.

eta: inserted "old"
Sounds like a reasonable proposal to me. Settlements are illegal and pernicious.

And Netanyahu saying he is ready to meet with no preconditions also "sounds reasonable" but each knows that the other cannot agree so they are both full of it.

"No conditions" means that negotiations on borders have no reference point. UNSC 2334 says all Israeli settlements and land expropriations beyond the June 4, 1967 borders are illegal and that negotiations on borders must start from those borders.

paulsurovell

Dec 29, 2016 at 12:49pm

LOST said:

paulsurovell said:

Good editorial

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/28/opinion/is-israel-abandoning-a-two-state-solution.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share&_r=0

From that Editorial:

"The United Nations is shamefully biased against Israel",

There are many American Jews who will not read the NY Times because they believe it to be "shamefully biased against Israel"

Again form the Editorial:

"But the Israeli far right has long imagined a different scenario: Egypt would be somehow induced to take control of the Gaza Strip, while Israel would hold most of the West Bank and somehow offload the bulk of its Palestinian residents into Jordan. Jerusalem, presumably, would be entirely under Israeli control.
This one-state solution may remain a fantasy, but it’s gathering adherents. In an opinion piece in The Wall Street Journal on Monday, John Bolton, a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and a former American ambassador to the United Nations, advanced just this scenario. Mr. Bolton is said to be on President-elect Donald Trump’s list as a possible deputy secretary of state."

At this point the Two-State solution seems also to be a fantasy.

Here's the full paragraph that you excerpted:

"The United Nations is shamefully biased against Israel, and President
Obama has used the American veto and its diplomatic muscle more
assiduously than any previous American president to shield Israel from
unwarranted criticism. But nowhere is it written that an American
president is obliged to shelter Israel from international criticism that
is consistent with decades-old American policy and with American
interests."

The two-state solution is a fantasy if the world caves to the Israeli right-wing and John Bolton.

What needs to be pointed out is that a one-state solution would be acceptable to the Palestinians -- as long as they are granted full citizenship rights, including the vote, in a singular state. But as Kerry said, if that happens, Israel will not longer be a Jewish state, because Muslims will soon be a majority.

A more likely scenario is that Israel would establish one-state and deprive Palestinians of citizenship, creating, as Kerry said, an apartheid state (which already exists on the West Bank).

paulsurovell

Dec 29, 2016 at 12:54pm

LOST said:

paulsurovell said:

Sherrod Brown was not one of the principled and courageous Senators who boycotted Netanyahu's disrespectful performance in Congress. Brown tells us nothing about why he's against the resolution. So my opinion is that as he did last March, Brown statement is pandering to Netanyahy and the settlement lobby.

I prefer Diane Feinstein's reaction:

There's a big difference between Ohio and California, not to mention between a retiring Senator and one who is running for re-election in two years.

I agree that Sherrod Brown is from Ohio and Diane Feinstein is from California.

paulsurovell

Dec 29, 2016 at 11:15pm Edited

paulsurovell said:

cramer said:

paulsurovell said:

cramer said:

paulsurovell said:

Half of this statement is good. Half of it is craven.
Rick Jacobs is a prominent member of J Street who I'm sure you know. I'm also sure that you will tell him that his statement on behalf of the Reform Movement was craven.
I don't know him personally, but if you'd like to tell him that I think his reaction was craven, that's fine with me.
You've just called the Reform Movement craven.
When a person or organization takes a position because of fear of an attack, as Jacob did, that's craven. He caved to Netanyahu and his surrogates.

Article in NY Times puts the statement by Rick Jacobs in context:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/us/american-jews-john-kerry-israel.html

. . . and Tom Friedman discusses US abstention on UNSC 2334 as an attempt to block Netanyahu's polices leading toward Israel becoming an apartheid state:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/28/opinion/bibi-netanyahu-makes-trump-his-chump.html

debby

Mar 9, 2017 at 2:19pm

I just wanted to leave this here. Proof that Fatah officially glorifies terror attacks and the attackers.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-authority-holds-youth-camp-in-terrorists-honor/

"The Palestinian Authority honored a female terrorist responsible for one of the worst terror attacks in Israel’s history, naming a youth camp starting this week in Jericho after Dalal Mughrabi, who took part in the Coastal Road Massacre.
On March 11, 1978, Mughrabi and several other Fatah terrorists landed on a beach near Tel Aviv, hijacked a bus on Israel’s Coastal Road and killed 38 civilians, 13 of them children, and wounded over 70.

BG9

Mar 9, 2017 at 5:41pm Edited

Proof of the glorification of terror attacks and the attackers in Israel.

At the events to mark the 60th anniversary of the attack, Benjamin Netanyahu, then chairman of Likud and Leader of the Opposition in the Knesset, opined that the bombing was a legitimate act with a military target, distinguishing it from an act of terror intended to harm civilians. He said, "Imagine that Hamas or Hizbullah would call the military headquarters in Tel Aviv and say, 'We have placed a bomb and we are asking you to evacuate the area.' They don't do that. That is the difference."[36]

In July 2006, the Menachem Begin Heritage Center organized a conference to mark the 60th anniversary of the bombing. The conference was attended by past and future Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former members of Irgun.[47] A plaque commemorating the bombing was unveiled, stating "For reasons known only to the British, the hotel was not evacuated." The British Ambassador in Tel Aviv and the Consul-General in Jerusalem protested, saying "We do not think that it is right for an act of terrorism, which led to the loss of many lives, to be commemorated", and wrote to the Mayor of Jerusalem that such an act of terror could not be honoured, even if it was preceded by a warning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing#60th_anniversary_controversy

debby

Mar 11, 2017 at 7:25pm

The Irgun was a terrorist group. They destroyed the office of the British Mandate Secretariat. The PLO hijacked public transportation to kill civilians.

BubbaTerp

Mar 13, 2017 at 11:36am

Are we really comparing the Irgun to the PLO/Fatah/Hamas? Come on.

paulsurovell

Mar 15, 2017 at 2:07am Edited

Hamas is expected to unveil draft of a new charter that may soften its position on Israel:

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2017/03/israel-hamas-palestinian-authority-charter-api.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Trump administration is demanding that Israel not build settlements outside of existing boundaries:

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.777320

paulsurovell said:

www.cnn.com/2017/03/17/middleeast/israel-jets-syria-strikes/">Israel attacks Syrian military near Palmyra one day after www.cnn.com="" 2017="" 03="" 17="" middleeast="" idlib-bombing-syria="" "="" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.cnn.com/2017/03/17/middleeast/idlib-bombing-syria/">US is accused of bombing of Syrian mosque. Syrian antiaircraft missiles land in Israel. US-Russian cooperation needed to prevent this from escalating out of control.