Actually, we were discussing The Beatitudes, but I see that TDS is still infecting MOLers! No vaccine available, but time heals old wounds, IMHE.
OK. But I've been asking you the question for years, so we'll leave out reference to TFG.
How do you reconcile your religion generally, and specifically with regard to the New Testament teachings of Jesus (e.g. The Beatitudes) with your support for the Republican Party? Let's just take their (and your) position on refugees and immigration, or tax breaks for the wealthy, or their opposition to any sort of programs that give people more access to food, education or health care.
For the life of me, I can't find any support from Jesus's teachings for anything that the GOP stands for. Maybe you can enlighten me on this.
OK. But I've been asking you the question for years, so we'll leave out reference to TFG.
How do you reconcile your religion generally, and specifically with regard to the New Testament teachings of Jesus (e.g. The Beatitudes) with your support for the Republican Party? Let's just take their (and your) position on refugees and immigration, or tax breaks for the wealthy, or their opposition to any sort of programs that give people more access to food, education or health care.
For the life of me, I can't find any support from Jesus's teachings for anything that the GOP stands for. Maybe you can enlighten me on this.
listen, it’s like looking for gold in a copper mine. If Jesus was born in a stable in Texas he would still not be considered American, according to the republicans. He wouldn’t even be allowed to vote. His melanin count was a bit above ‘American’ standards…
Pope Francis, an authority I would trust more than Sarah Sanders in this realm, said, “A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not a Christian.”
Trump is all about self. His bigotry, his boasting, his lies, his pride, his scams of the vulnerable, his worship of materialism, his insults of the dead, his turning a blind eye to refugees, his bragging of adulterous behavior, his treatment of “the least” among us — all of this is antithetical to Christian philosophy.
Pope Francis, an authority I would trust more than Sarah Sanders in this realm, said, “A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not a Christian.”
Trump is all about self. His bigotry, his boasting, his lies, his pride, his scams of the vulnerable, his worship of materialism, his insults of the dead, his turning a blind eye to refugees, his bragging of adulterous behavior, his treatment of “the least” among us — all of this is antithetical to Christian philosophy.
I can understand from the standpoint of really conservative Christian sects, whose dogma is pretty removed from Jesus of the New Testament.
But the number of Catholic Republicans is bewildering when the Church still professes to follow the teachings of Jesus toward the poor, sick, and refugees. Are all Catholic Republicans one-issue, anti-abortion voters?
Well, if we want to nerd out about (Catholic) Church history, it fits into the broader argument over whether secular authority should defer to the Church, or vice versa -- eg ultramontism. It's been an especially sharp argument in the francophone world, eg:
In eighteenth-century Spain, the Bourbon monarchs began implementing policies of regalism, which expanded the power of the monarchy and sought to bring the Catholic Church under its jurisdiction in all matters except the spiritual sphere. Charles III of Spain's ministers, Count of Floridablanca and the Count of Campomanes rejected the arguments of the ultramontanists that the Church had inalienable rights in the secular sphere.
It gets weird and complicated in the US since for most of our history Catholics were a minority -- not even qualifying as "white" in many cases, so the idea of a state deferential to a church wasn't especially appealing since it was a Protestant state. I'd argue that since Catholics have become mainstream (6 out of 9 SCOTUS justices are Catholic, for instance!) and what I'd argue has been a protestantization of conservative Catholics, that's changed, and a secular state is seen as an obstacle rather than a shield for many conservative Catholics. Nothing like a bit of worldly power to change one's principles.
--
ok, shorter version -- there's long been a strain in Catholicism that holds the secular state in contempt. That wasn't pronounced in American Catholicism while Catholics had relatively little political power, but that's now changed.
OK. But I've been asking you the question for years, so we'll leave out reference to TFG.
How do you reconcile your religion generally, and specifically with regard to the New Testament teachings of Jesus (e.g. The Beatitudes) with your support for the Republican Party? Let's just take their (and your) position on refugees and immigration, or tax breaks for the wealthy, or their opposition to any sort of programs that give people more access to food, education or health care.
For the life of me, I can't find any support from Jesus's teachings for anything that the GOP stands for. Maybe you can enlighten me on this.
Rather, let us ask the president how he has managed to work his cafeteria Catholic schtick in Washington for decades.
How do you reconcile your religion generally, and specifically with regard to the New Testament teachings of Jesus (e.g. The Beatitudes) with your support for the Republican Party? Let's just take their (and your) position on refugees and immigration, or tax breaks for the wealthy, or their opposition to any sort of programs that give people more access to food, education or health care.
For the life of me, I can't find any support from Jesus's teachings for anything that the GOP stands for. Maybe you can enlighten me on this.
Rather, let us ask the president how he has managed to work his cafeteria Catholic schtick in Washington for decades.
With members of the military, healthcare workers, actors, athletes, Joe Blow, etc losing careers, reputations, livelihood, etc for rejecting the vaccine, I believe the heavy handed mandate approach of this administration has caused much of the fear and frustration — it didn’t have to be conducted in such a cut-throat manner.
Once again, for the forgetful, I had appointments for the Moderna vaccine way back in February and March of 2021, after weeks of working the online system. I got the booster shot in November 2021.
The use of “Mandate” was a public relations disaster. The reality that even vaccinated people could get Covid made the mandate heavy handed bullying.
OK. But I've been asking you the question for years, so we'll leave out reference to TFG.
How do you reconcile your religion generally, and specifically with regard to the New Testament teachings of Jesus (e.g. The Beatitudes) with your support for the Republican Party? Let's just take their (and your) position on refugees and immigration, or tax breaks for the wealthy, or their opposition to any sort of programs that give people more access to food, education or health care.
For the life of me, I can't find any support from Jesus's teachings for anything that the GOP stands for. Maybe you can enlighten me on this.
Rather, let us ask the president how he has managed to work his cafeteria Catholic schtick in Washington for decades.
so you're still not going to even attempt to answer the question...
How do you reconcile your religion generally, and specifically with regard to the New Testament teachings of Jesus (e.g. The Beatitudes) with your support for the Republican Party? Let's just take their (and your) position on refugees and immigration, or tax breaks for the wealthy, or their opposition to any sort of programs that give people more access to food, education or health care.
For the life of me, I can't find any support from Jesus's teachings for anything that the GOP stands for. Maybe you can enlighten me on this.
Rather, let us ask the president how he has managed to work his cafeteria Catholic schtick in Washington for decades.
With members of the military, healthcare workers, actors, athletes, Joe Blow, etc losing careers, reputations, livelihood, etc for rejecting the vaccine, I believe the heavy handed mandate approach of this administration has caused much of the fear and frustration — it didn’t have to be conducted in such a cut-throat manner.
Once again, for the forgetful, I had appointments for the Moderna vaccine way back in February and March of 2021, after weeks of working the online system. I got the booster shot in November 2021.
The use of “Mandate” was a public relations disaster. The reality that even vaccinated people could get Covid made the mandate heavy handed bullying.
How do you reconcile your religion generally, and specifically with regard to the New Testament teachings of Jesus (e.g. The Beatitudes) with your support for the Republican Party? Let's just take their (and your) position on refugees and immigration, or tax breaks for the wealthy, or their opposition to any sort of programs that give people more access to food, education or health care.
For the life of me, I can't find any support from Jesus's teachings for anything that the GOP stands for. Maybe you can enlighten me on this.
Rather, let us ask the president how he has managed to work his cafeteria Catholic schtick in Washington for decades.
With members of the military, healthcare workers, actors, athletes, Joe Blow, etc losing careers, reputations, livelihood, etc for rejecting the vaccine, I believe the heavy handed mandate approach of this administration has caused much of the fear and frustration — it didn’t have to be conducted in such a cut-throat manner.
Once again, for the forgetful, I had appointments for the Moderna vaccine way back in February and March of 2021, after weeks of working the online system. I got the booster shot in November 2021.
The use of “Mandate” was a public relations disaster. The reality that even vaccinated people could get Covid made the mandate heavy handed bullying.
what came first? the mandate or the belligerent selfish attitudes of the anti-vaxers?
the mandate caused no "fear and frustration". those snowflakes were all ready to behave like bratty children, well before the mandate. there was no alternative to a mandate to get vax rates up. just like an obstinate child, reason would not work with them. sometimes you have to lay down the law.
Rather, let us ask the president how he has managed to work his cafeteria Catholic schtick in Washington for decades.
To borrow a phrase from the Poster Formerly Known As Strawberry - "Holy ignorance".
Joe Biden has to answer for supporting a number of terrible military invasions that killed a lot of innocent people. But in terms of his current domestic policies, he's been a better Catholic than anyone who's supporting today's GOP.
Goodness! This thread has never been so lively! I miss so much while sleeping, it’s hard to respond…
Mtierney, I’m not sure I understand that learned commentator’s point about the un-Judaic nature of Jesus’ remarks in the Beatitudes. While not necessarily in written Torah, we have many passages where sages are teaching in this kind of format - before Jesus’ birth, as well as after - as well as in our daily prayers, and regular studies. It’s a format that Jesus would have been very familiar with from his Temple studies for bar mitzvah and beyond. (this is the kind of thing that has always puzzled me, that I’ve debated endlessly with my school chaplain and Uni lecturers - by failing to recognise the value of our oral Torah and the method of teaching it together with the written Torah for many many centuries, non-Jewish scholars have missed all the explanatory passages. They’ve mistranslated the Aramaic writing as a result.)
From the age of 5years, we start learning our history by learning basic oral and written Torah, learning to translate into modern English (or whatever your language is), and learning how to ask a question then find the answer. We’re taught to learn by asking asking questions, until the answers make sense to us - and we’re taught how follow the chain of answers and debates all through history. These voices still ring for us, surround us; they’re not taken on faith, we can trace generations of teachers and students.
Joe Biden has to answer for supporting a number of terrible military invasions that killed a lot of innocent people. But in terms of his current domestic policies, he's been a better Catholic than anyone who's supporting today's GOP.
His distain for the unborn, as recently as last weekend, comes to mind.
From the article:(The investigator) also noted that the investigation uncovered unheeded complaints about conditions at the school as well as evidence of children’s bodies being disposed of in lakes, rivers and the school’s incinerator, including priests’ unwanted babies.
“For those children there will be no headstone, no unmarked grave, no small fragment of bone to be forensically analyzed. For those families there will be no closure. It is for those children and families that we grieve the most.”
St Joseph's Mission was a holding facility for children who were forcibly taken from their parents and held until they either died or reached their 18th birthday. It was run from 1891 to 1981 by the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate. Of the 470 acres covered by the complex, only 14 have been searched for bodies this far.
Re the acceptance of Catholics in your political system: we’ve always been taught that since your initial Pilgrim founders were Protestants fleeing Catholic persecution, Catholic citizens were viewed as a little bit suss. Yeah they rose to high position in some local governments, in some police areas etc, but then there were also links with corruption which helped to affirm the initial unease. So it wasn’t until Kennedy that people truly felt comfortable with the idea of a Catholic President representing the nation.
As an observer, I’ve been saddened and confused that your GOP had narrowed its views on the vulnerable and struggling in the nation. (Sorry: two phone calls while I’ve been typing this). The party now comes across as almost selfish in focus, rather than whole-of-nation focused, rewarding citizens who don’t need the perks and are too selective in how they share their freedoms.
Joe Biden has to answer for supporting a number of terrible military invasions that killed a lot of innocent people. But in terms of his current domestic policies, he's been a better Catholic than anyone who's supporting today's GOP.
His distain for the unborn, as recently as last weekend, comes to mind.
"Prolife" GOP Senator Ron Johnson - once the kids are born, they're no longer his concern.
"Well, people decide to have families and become parents. That's something they need to consider when they make that choice. I've never really felt it was society's responsibility to take care of other people's children."
Sen. Ron Johnson asked about reducing child care costs: "Well, people decide to have families and become parents. That's something they need to consider when they make that choice. I've never really felt it was society's responsibility to take care of other people's children." pic.twitter.com/HyJr4iTwUG
you know, at least a cafeteria Catholic will pick and choose among various Catholic values.
mt picks exactly one, overriding value and will support the most vile and disgusting individual as long as they are anti-abortion. nothing else matters.
The timing is exquisite: I’ve seen an Indian Hills sign reading Decaf is so depresso
I’m noting in passing that today ((26th) is Australia Day, also known as Invasion Day, yet our avowed Christian PM, who is a devotee of Hillsong, is a blatant liar, rorter, elitist, misogynist and fails to support the vulnerable in our community instead accusing them of being ‘learners’ and bludgers (cheats/slackers). He also does not welcome strangers especially those in need of help. From my 13 years at a Methodist Ladies College, I think that flies in the face of every parable and Beatitude… yet this seems to be something in common with Conservatives worldwide. Why are they so convinced they ‘own’ the Bible and its interpretation and practical implementation?
From what you write, I think you have enough on your plate with your own government’s leadership to focus on and fight to change. Amazing that you have the time or inclination to comment on the foibles of U.S. pols. Kudos!
A quick scan of the world news shows that conservatives are not the sole provocateurs of trouble, violence, mayhem, and political unrest. Far from it, IMHO.
While I've no doubt you oppose abortion, I couldn't say upon what religious or ethical principle you do so. Given your disdain for so much Catholic teaching, you can hardly claim a religious justification (might do you some good to venture as far as the cafeteria one of these days instead of that sad little snack cart at the GOP convention you've mistaken for a Church). And it's hardly upon any ethical principle such as concern for life in general, or families or children in particular -- your Rose Garden thread is testimony enough of your disdain for the poor and vulnerable. No, I think abortion's just another identity politics issue for you, something you hold up mainly as a marker of your antipathy for Democrats, but shallow as any of your other professed beliefs.
Mt, I know it’s late but I want to thank you again - you’ve allowed me to spit an overlooked typo. ‘Learners’ should have been ‘leaners’ but autocorrect got in the way. It’s another term for bludgers.
Yeah, this week especially Scotty isn’t doing too well especially in his favourite messaging form, the photo op. (See almost any Grace Tame reference, then learn more about why she’s disappointed with him) Summer/ Jan-Mar just isn’t his season.
Today is Holocaust Remembrance Day. It’s almost shocking that here, almost a quarter of the population know very of the Holocaust beyond what they’ve seen in movies. They know practically nothing of our attitudes to Jewish refugees, European refugees post-Holocaust and WW2, and even less of our attitude pre-Holocaust. They no longer remember the Dunera Boys, even in the towns that imprisoned them. This lack of history informs current attitudes to ‘Australia for Australians’, that curiously seem to ignore First Nations rights and rebuffs rather than welcomes refugees and asylum seekers. So much for welcoming the Stranger in Jesus’ name….
I miss so much while sleeping, it’s hard to respond…
Those who bring up TDS are unable to defend his actions. It's a simple retort that allows them not to debate. Clever, but a normal GOP tool.