Pope Francis, Catholics, and Christians in the news worldwide

I'm going to head out here but, before I go, I would just like to do a status check on Fulton Sheen, a man who's lifetime supporter for far right causes, fascist juntas and notorious abusers of human rights will forever preclude him from true sainthood.

Fulton Sheen:  Still Not a Saint.



I was just catching up on European news; as we had St Nicholas’ Day earlier this day, this caught my eye:

https://nypost.com/2021/12/10/bah-humbug-italy-bishop-tells-children-santa-doesnt-exist/
WHAT?! Santa isn’t a real person?!?  excaim I’m shocked; so who gives those gifts overnight???


joanne said:

I was just catching up on European news; as we had St Nicholas’ Day earlier this day, this caught my eye:

https://nypost.com/2021/12/10/bah-humbug-italy-bishop-tells-children-santa-doesnt-exist/
WHAT?! Santa isn’t a real person?!? 
excaim
I’m shocked; so who gives those gifts overnight???

You think that's bad? 


Nohero, I’m sticking to dreidels and Hanukkah, it’s slightly less heartbreaking cheese


Sad, and St. Nicholas such a lovely man, at least in legend, not pagan at all (granted a lot of Xmas customs are).  


Some people.....

That said, its such an interesting picture of Santa Claus.  I am always fascinated with how he is portrayed around the world.

Here in Canada, our Santa hews pretty closely to the American Santa.  Maybe Joanne can fill us in on what he looks like down under?


This is a review of various Santa's and Santa analogs from around Europe.  My favorite is the Finnish Yule Goat and Catalonia's ever refreshing take on Christmas.

Here’s what Santa Claus looks like in 13 countries around the world


Often some version of this, or else this on a Hawaiian shirt (or else using kangaroos instead of reindeer)

If we’re not being kitsch/ironic, then the standard International version is the one used, with the poor man inside losing several bucketloads of sweat. (It’s very hot and humid in most places around the nation)


You’ve got Mommy Kissing Santa Claus. We sing about Making Gravy (on the way to jail…)

Words are in the description. Seriously, this is a national Christmas carol, since 1996. Story behind the song here: 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-21/paul-kelly-origins-of-prison-christmas-song-how-to-make-gravy/9279550

We also sing about Six White Boomers (albino kangaroos), but I can’t post a clip without showing Rolf Harris, who has fallen out of favour. 
Here’s Silent Night in Lorrpu, one of the indigenous languages. The First Nations’ radio station CCAMA filmed this a few years ago:


joanne said:

You’ve got Mommy Kissing Santa Claus. We sing about Making Gravy (on the way to jail

Words are in the description. Seriously, this is a national Christmas carol, since 1996. Story behind the song here: 

So, what makes a typical Christmas Dinner in Australia (what does the gravy go on)?  

Growing up in the US we either had a repeat of Thanksgiving or sometimes, my Italian grandmother would make home made gnocchi and raviolis. After my father remarried, it was tamales and menudo. In any case, it was always a hearty meal well suited to the coldest, darkest days of the year.  I can't quite imagine eating the same things shortly after the summer solstice.

* I realize this may be asking a lot of a Jewish woman but you are as close to an expert on Australian as I have handy, so Thank You in advance.


I’m not really sure what my friends do for ‘traditional’ style family Christmas foods. You could look up Donna Hay and Margaret Fulton recipes, and get an idea - or look through Delicious magazines’ online recipes, SBS tv recipes…

I do know that apart from huge joints of roasted and baked meats, there’s also endless trays of icy prawns, lobster, oysters, Moreton Bay bugs, crabs, etc. And so many kinds of fish! And outdoor bbq (what you call grilled) foods - you should see the stake-outs to claim ‘territory’ around the public bbqs in parks, beaches, national parks etc!  All the uneaten food is then consumed over the next few days… there’s a huge park at one end of our street and a beach at the other. I’ll take some pics on the 25th and post them. 

Most homes would have a dark fruity Christmas cake (it’s usually been boiled, baked & soaked in brandy or sherry); 80 years ago, people ate small pieces with a cup of tea. Now, people have small pieces with a bowl of ice cream - most people don’t really like the cake but charities bake & sell them so we buy them and give them as hostess gifts. There’s usually also a huge fresh pavlova with summer fruit. Some of my friends have a cassata: https://www.taste.com.au/recipes/cassata-ice-cream-cake/e8fd378c-f7f9-4d74-96a3-cbf049aec3b4

Usually it’s the beginning of cherry season but this year most of the local cherries were wiped out in the recent fierce storms. But massive fresh fruit platters and fresh fruit salads served for every meal. 



So here are some quick shopping links for major chains here. You’ll note the catalogues link to recipes and serving ides - I imagine yours do too. 
https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/discover/christmas/food-guides 

https://www.coles.com.au/

https://www.facebook.com/ALDI.Australia/
https://www.tiendeo.com.au/christmas hadn’t seen this site before. I was looking for IGA Drakes; this site has multiple supermarkets, and other stores. You’ll have to specify Gold Coast Australia cheese

You’ll note there are familiar names for stores here, but what they sell is soooo different! (Lowes here is menswear)


I love the ads!  What a great illustration of how things are done!


Almost inspiring that the Pope has taken time at this season to so publicly speak out for the victims of family violence, and programs offering them resources and strategies for rebuilding independence and resilience.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/20/pope-francis-says-domestic-violence-against-women-almost-satanic

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59723278
(The fawning report was a bit too sweet for me; I couldn’t find another article/viewpoint to balance it with)


mtierney said:

Taking issue with the Pope!

https://www.thetablet.co.uk/columnists/3/21315/i-think-the-pope-is-right-about-the-cancel-culture-and-wrong-about-dogs-and-cats

This web site requires an email to access it. I'm pretty hesitant about giving my email to strange websites. Any chance you would copy the article here so I can read it?


The Pope has said it’s selfish to have pets as ‘fur babies’ instead of real children - there’s a better & real need for adoptive parents rather than be indulgent ‘parents’ to animals. This was the topic for a very recent lengthy sermon? speech?

While agreeing with him in principle ( re the need for needy children to find the right adoptive or even foster parents), he’s very prescriptive about this, and not acknowledging that some of us have gone through too much heartbreak to be good parents. Some of us don’t live in the right situations and probably won’t for a long time, but a bird or fish is the right companion. And some of us aren’t financial enough for a growing household (esp school kids & teenagers) but can just afford a kitty.

Personally I’m currently Mum to some pretty pet rocks and a potted pineapple. (Lemon mouse is courtesy of a chef friend)



Here it is….

“Say what you will about the Pope, he is God’s gift for columnists. His remarks recently, about how selfish it is for couples to eschew having children and have cats or dogs instead was just catnip for the pundits. Cue for the opinionated to sound off amusingly about how, frankly, pets are in so many ways preferable to their offspring. As Rod Liddle, enfant terrible at The Sunday Times, observed: “Dogs are immeasurably better than children. They’re cheaper and don’t answer back. And instead of turning into monsters at the age of 13, they die. There is no better indicator of a civilised, decent and unselfish society than one in which the birth rate is falling.”

“Well, that is, as they say, a point of view. So the clever Pope has managed to get an argument going. Helpfully, he has also weighed in about the cancel culture – “a mindset that rejects the natural foundations of humanity and the cultural roots that constitute the identity of many peoples … a form of ideological colonisation, one that leaves no room for freedom of expression and is now taking the form of the ‘cancel culture’ invading many circles and public institutions” – which is also a trigger issue for columnists.

“As it happens, I think the Pope is right about cancel culture and wrong about dogs and cats. My own view is that, if it is not good for man to be alone, what’s wrong with a dog? And I would make the obvious point that you can, of course, have a dog and children (it is a sore point that I lack a pet); indeed, dogs tend to civilise families. As the philosopher George Steiner, who had a fabulous Dulux sheepdog, observed to me, you need one non-verbal member of a family.

“But the great thing is, the Pope can get arguments going, just by sounding off about things. He just needs to be aware of it, perhaps more than he is. Had he framed his very eloquent argument about the benefits of having children simply in terms of the generosity of being open to new life, we really wouldn’t have registered his observations – “we” being the columnar classes. It was the attack on the dumb chums that got people going. As for the Pope’s views on cancel culture, it’s a useful point of view, which will chime with lots of worried liberals. So no harm done there.

“Why do people register what the Pope says – in some cases? For one thing, he has, as spiritual head of the Church, got a coherent point of view, which is always good in public debate. The trouble with the Church of England is that it gives the appearance – in many cases unfairly – of being all over the place in its worldview. The Pope is also, in an overwhelmingly visual culture, a striking figure. Robed in white, he is one of the few powerful men in the world who doesn’t look boring in a suit. The crucial dress element should never be underplayed. Plus, Francis has a lovely smile.

“What I think he should be conscious of is his capacity to ignite comment with throwaway remarks – at least, I think they’re throwaway. It may take away a little from his spontaneity to suggest he thinks before he talks, but if he’s going to get an argument going, at least that should be what he intends.”


Thanks!  I have known people who don't have children because they know that they wouldn't be good parents, people who don't have children because they don't want to add to an overpopulated planet and people who don't have children because they don't want to subject future generations to the horrors that past generations have guaranteed them.

I love being a parent but I understand these reasons.


What the Pope actually said, and it had nothing to do with whether or not you get a pet.

"And many couples do not have children because they do not want to, or they have just one because they do not want any more, but they have two dogs, two cats…. Yes, dogs and cats take the place of children. Yes, it is funny, I understand, but it is the reality."

https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/audiences/2022/documents/20220105-udienza-generale.html

[Edited to add] The bulk of the talk is about adoption, actually.


Interesting comment coming from someone who chose a career that precludes him from having children.


Isn't Saint Francis the patron saint of pets?  


Not to extend the discussion, but yeah, he did say that choosing to have a dog or cat instead of adopting an orphan is selfish. I’ve paraphrased but he used ‘selfish’. It’s a little bit further than your quote, and the whole lot is close after the biblical theme of both marrying your brother’s widow/adopting his children to continue his name; adopting orphans in order to continue your name. 

nohero said:

What the Pope actually said, and it had nothing to do with whether or not you get a pet.

"And many couples do not have children because they do not want to, or they have just one because they do not want any more, but they have two dogs, two cats…. Yes, dogs and cats take the place of children. Yes, it is funny, I understand, but it is the reality."

https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/audiences/2022/documents/20220105-udienza-generale.html

[Edited to add] The bulk of the talk is about adoption, actually.

My big problem with this theological POV is the same I’ve discussed with many rabbis, with the Greek Orthodox priests where I worked, the Uniting Church ministers I knew from school and Uni…: those of us unable to have our own children and not in a position to adopt yet still believing and pondering Scriptures invariably land in a position where ‘this will be a judgement on you, to be cut off from the [Nation/Tribe/People/Faithful].  But what have I done except try to live as ethically and openly as I can, all my life?? Why am I (my soul) singled out??
No amount of volunteering etc can ever overcome that abandonment and despair. Ever. Even when they quickly rush to stammer ‘no, that’s not really what was meant’.

We’re still admonished. For not controlling - weather.


joanne said:

My big problem with this theological POV is the same I’ve discussed with many rabbis, with the Greek Orthodox priests where I worked, the Uniting Church ministers I knew from school and Uni…: those of us unable to have our own children and not in a position to adopt yet still believing and pondering Scriptures invariably land in a position where ‘this will be a judgement on you, to be cut off from the [Nation/Tribe/People/Faithful].  But what have I done except try to live as ethically and openly as I can, all my life?? Why am I (my soul) singled out??
No amount of volunteering etc can ever overcome that abandonment and despair. Ever. Even when they quickly rush to stammer ‘no, that’s not really what was meant’.

We’re still admonished. For not controlling - weather.


My belief is the Pope was ridiculing folks who chose to parent animals instead of children. Not people who did not, or could not have children. 

My husband and I adopted three children back in the ‘60s after being childless for 8 years. Our house always included cats and dogs, along with kids. A fourth child arrived the old fashioned way!

I  believe neither God nor the Pope “admonishes” people for living a good life, in good conscience.


mtierney said:

My belief is the Pope was ridiculing folks who chose to parent animals instead of children. Not people who did not, or could not have children. 

My husband and I adopted three children back in the ‘60s after being childless for 8 years. Our house always included cats and dogs, along with kids. A fourth child arrived the old fashioned way!

I  believe neither God nor the Pope “admonishes” people for living a good life, in good conscience.

Some people just shouldn't be parents.  It wouldn't be good for them or the kids they adopt.  If they want to have a pet instead, who is the Pope to question it? Given the difficulties the Church has had in recent years, particularly in matters relating to children, I think the Pope would do best to refrain from ridiculing anyone.


A bit of the deafening silence here with regards to the misdoings of disgraced former pope Ratzinger.

German investigation accuses Benedict XVI of ‘wrongdoing’ in handling of abuse cases while archbishop of Munich


@STANV the old mountain man — an answer of sorts to one of your many  questions….

I make an effort not to talk religion in other threads — not always successfully, however.


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