Pope Francis, Catholics, and Christians in the news worldwide

The Pope' homeward bound conversation...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/14/world/europe/pope-francis-says-hes-overlooked-the-worlds-middle-class.html?ref=todayspaper

nohero said:

mtierney said:
When HRC speaks, the goal definitely speaks to "income redistribution." Income equality is a euphemism to fool folks.
The Pope, rather, urges that poverty, hunger, homelessness, and poor education be the focus for governments to address worldwide.

Please don't "spin" the Pope's teaching as part of your repeating of the right-wing attacks ("income redistribution!"). Thanks in advance.

I think you need to reread my comments -- the remark was clearly directed at HRC and the Democratic liberal agenda. No apology necessary

mtierney said:

nohero said:

mtierney said:
When HRC speaks, the goal definitely speaks to "income redistribution." Income equality is a euphemism to fool folks.
The Pope, rather, urges that poverty, hunger, homelessness, and poor education be the focus for governments to address worldwide.

Please don't "spin" the Pope's teaching as part of your repeating of the right-wing attacks ("income redistribution!"). Thanks in advance.

I think you need to reread my comments -- the remark was clearly directed at HRC and the Democratic liberal agenda. No apology necessary

Your own quote gives a "spin" on the Pope's teaching. You used the word "Pope" and then whatever interpretation of his teaching that you had found or perceived. Not sure what you think an apology would be about.

If you haven't heard about Planned Parenthood and the indescribable revelations about the business of selling body parts from aborted babies, it is because the liberalmedia is unnerved-- or should be!

http://ow.ly/31qNzM

Actually if we haven't seen that video, it could be because journalism. http://gawker.com/no-planned-parenthood-is-not-selling-aborted-fetal-bod-1717823538

Actually, I had heard about this -- and through the "liberalmedia."

This is actually a good example of the politicized thought endemic to the American church I criticized earlier. There are serious ethical issues raised here, yet your instinctive response is to make this about the "liberal" media - a political, rather than an ethical, concern.

mtierney said:
If you haven't heard about Planned Parenthood and the indescribable revelations about the business of selling body parts from aborted babies, it is because the liberalmedia is unnerved-- or should be!
http://ow.ly/31qNzM

It was in this morning's New York Times. The article has facts and background.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/15/us/video-accuses-planned-parenthood-of-crime.html?_r=0

Yes, it's been covered by a variety of media since yesterday.

Interesting response to the word "liberal" in my post.

Any comments on the content?

I opened your NYT link, Nohero, and I thought it rather sanitized of detail and more focused on GOP response

mtierney said:
Interesting response to the word "liberal" in my post.
Any comments on the content?
I opened your NYT link, Nohero, and I thought it rather sanitized of detail and more focused on GOP response

Consider the likely alternative that it's factual, and therefore not supporting the slant of the site you provided a link to.

The NYT article IS the response to your video, Mtierney. Typical conservative tactic, to say liberals aren't responding, when in fact they already have.

mtierney said:
Interesting response to the word "liberal" in my post.
Any comments on the content?
I opened your NYT link, Nohero, and I thought it rather sanitized of detail and more focused on GOP response

Well, your post didn't exactly invite comments on the content. Your post made a sweeping assumption that no one but you had heard of this story, and that the reason for that is because of the "liberalmedia."

Sure I have thoughts on the topics raised by this story, but based on your hyper-politicized approach here, why would I bother sharing them? Perhaps you meant to share this in your Rose Garden thread instead, as the alleged political leanings of the media doesn't seem good fit for a thread called "The challenges facing Pope Francis, Catholics and Christians world wide"?

mtierney said:
Interesting response to the word "liberal" in my post.

Then define what you meant by "liberal media".

Usually that term is applied to anything that's not Fox News or the New York Post. The NY Times usually gets the "liberal media" label from people who use "liberal media" in complaints that the "liberal media" isn't providing "appropriate" coverage.

So easy to kill the "messenger".

Still no comment on the story

You don't really want to know. If you did, you might have read the articles that people posted in response to the story. That, if you would only pay attention, is the "comment" you seek.

mtierney said:
So easy to kill the "messenger".
Still no comment on the story

Read the facts as set forth in the NY Times piece, which is the real story. That's my comment.

nohero said:

mtierney said:
So easy to kill the "messenger".
Still no comment on the story

Read the facts as set forth in the NY Times piece, which is the real story. That's my comment.

The Gawker piece is even more damning in its factual content, but mtierney probably won't bother reading it. It's easier to say we liberals are not commenting.

In case there is any doubt, here is my comment:

The propaganda video you posted is full of crap, mtierney. For facts contradicting its empty accusations, please refer to the Gawker and NYTimes pieces already referenced above. Thank you.

Oh, and for the record, my mother used to volunteer with Planned Parenthood. I believe in them.

I read the Gawker link. Gawker? Really? I need eye wash'

This is commentary.

BIOETHICS, CULTURE OF DEATH, EUTHANASIA, PRO LIFE, REALITY CHECK, WOMEN'S HEALTH, WOMEN'S RIGHTSBOILING FROGS AND SILENT LAMBS

JULY 15, 2015
The last thing I want to write about, now that my belly is proceeding me into every room by approximately 2.3 seconds, is wholesaling baby parts. But dammit if that’s not what’s trending in my newsfeed these past 24 hours.
But you and I both know that Facebook has fundamentally myopic tendencies, meaning it caters to your specific likes/beliefs/interests/sexual preferences/cat food brands/etc., and that you won’t see something you disagree with, most of the time. Because you’ve probably unfriended and distanced yourself from anyone with whom you disagree in real life.
I’ve never personally unfriended anyone for such a thought crime, but I’ve been jettisoned from quite a few former college classmate’s lists myself, so I know how it works. And I know that without their presence in my own little echo chamber, things sound a lot more homogenous.
Which is hardly helpful for the purpose of debate and ongoing discussion. But I guess it reinforces our little bubbles. And I guess it’s part of why I was not at all surprised to see that although every other hashtag in my social networks yesterday was #ppsellsbabyparts, it was nothing but crickets from CNN, MSNBC, ABC and the like (oh, but this gem from Cosmopolitan is rich). I even forced myself to stroll through 30 minutes of Anderson Cooper last night on the treadmill, knowing full well that he wasn’t going to cover the story. But I had to see for myself.
Before I go any further I want to confess this: I’m disgusted, first and foremost, by my own deep apathy for the situation. When the news broke yesterday that Planned Parenthood had fallen victim to yet another undercover investigative journalism sting, this one featuring a high-ranking medical officer in the company discussing selling dead baby parts for profit over a leafy kale salad and red wine lunch, my blood pressure was unchanged.
My first reaction, internally, was something like “well of course they’re selling human organs for profit. Why wouldn’t they?”
Blase. Utterly unsurprised. And the longer I sit with the news, the more disgusted and disturbed I am by my own emotionally-neutral state. For God’s sake, I’m 9 months pregnant. I should be sobbing when I listen to testimony about “carefully crushing above the neck and below the pelvis, to keep abdominal organs intact;” because I can’t even get through most bedtimes without tears, lately.
But there’s nothing.
Sure, I’m disgusted on an intellectual level. But the gut reaction of horror, pain, and revulsion is notably absent.
And I blame myself as much as I blame our violent, twisted, sadistic media – both news and entertainment.
When I was a young teenager, maybe 13 or 14 years old, I saw my first real horror movie: Silence of the Lambs. (I’m almost 100% sure without my parent’s knowledge.) It horrified me on such a deep level that I honestly cannot, to this day, look at Anthony Hopkins in photographs or in any other movies. The evil he so convincingly portrayed in the character of Hannibal Lector was so profound that I was shaken to my very core.
My developing teenage mind was assaulted by the idea that a anyone could eat human beings, that this man could be so intellectually superior to the average person and yet ensnared by such demonic evil as to be able to casually remark about “nice chianti and Fava beans” whilst dabbing traces of his victim’s blood from his lips with a fine linen napkin.
Fast forward 15 years or so and we find ourselves immersed in such a culture of violence, both on the news and in our so-called entertainment, that I doubt Hopkin’s performance would push any envelopes or raise any eyebrows today.
Cannibalism? Yawn. Saw that on CSI last week. Scalping and skinning? Ho-hum, isn’t ISIS doing that in Siberia or somewhere right now?
And that’s why this can happen. That’s why a corporate behemoth like Planned Parenthood can continue to gobble up tax dollars and butcher up babies all while convincing the public of their benevolent generosity towards “underprivileged” women and minorities.
Feminism, my ass.
Turns out it might be closer to cannibalism, of all the possible isms it could resemble. And that even when such a story breaks, the news rolls upon deaf ears and hardened, calloused hearts, worn weary by decades of daily doses of demonic violence and evil emanating from our screens and from our newspapers.
Shame on us. Shame on a world that, when news of the trafficking of tiny human hearts and livers hits 1% of the mainstream news, good men and women don’t take up arms and rush to the defense of the defenseless. Don’t start a revolution.
When I was younger I used to wonder about the German people and why nobody tried to get out ahead of Hitler, how an entire nation could have fallen under his evil spell.
Now I know. Now I see, firsthand, that none of us are immune to the horrors of our day. And that as the temperature rises, the frog slowly cooks, oblivious to his own imminent peril as the mercury creeps ever upward. And that at a certain point the human mind, when confronted with such appalling and obvious wickedness, shuts down or short circuits in cowardice or fear or apathy or, or, or …
I’m still searching for my “or.” I’m still trying to figure out why I’m not physically standing in front of a Planned Parenthood clinic this morning, blocking the doorway with my enormous pregnant belly so that not one more woman, not one more child is destroyed at their hands.
Instead I’m writing this up in a coffee shop, my own unborn collection of human parts rolling around beneath my too-tight skin, kicks visible to the nearest barista even through a layer of fat and muscle and spandex.
And I don’t understand.

JENNY UEBBING

14 COMMENTS

ReplyREBECCAJuly 15, 2015 at 1:20 pmJenny, this actually wasn’t a Lila Rose undercover. It was done my an organization called the Center for Medical Progress (http://www.centerformedicalprogress.org/)

ReplyJENNY UEBBINGJuly 15, 2015 at 1:29 pmahh, yes! Good catch. I’m so used to it being her (and I’m so mentally, ahem, challenged by this last month of pregnancy.) thank you!

ReplyANNEJuly 15, 2015 at 1:22 pmHi Jenny,I wanted to tell you that every single time I read one of your blog posts, especially about something “controversial” or unpopular, I literally say “yes!” out loud and nearly jump out of my seat in excitement and agreement. And then I frantically hit the “share” button as I fumble to type in my husband’s and mother’s email addresses and type something along the lines of “THIS. YES. READ NOW.” Thank you for saying what you do. For standing up for what’s right, and for standing up for what we, as catholics believe. I have the utmost respect and admiration for you and the way you live and share your beliefs and convictions without hesitation.

ReplyJENNY UEBBINGJuly 15, 2015 at 1:44 pmWow Anne, thank you, I really appreciate your kind words. Onward, fellow solider.

ReplyATHENACJuly 15, 2015 at 1:26 pmI think part of the non-response is simply helplessness. I know that if I look TOO too closely at that I am going to lose my mind. Although, in fairness, after the person is killed it doesn’t particularly bother me what happens to the body since the person isn’t suffering anymore. The primary horror is that the person was killed; what happens to their body doesn’t really add to that primary horror to me.
But all that being said – what could we possibly do? I’m raising my own kids to understand why we’re pro-life and what pro-life means, but against a backdrop of living in a very blue state with a mother-in-law that is unapologetic about abortions she has had.
I know that we can increase our efforts to help women who might get sucked into getting an abortion or working at an abortion clinic or working on our legal arena to change the current state of legalized slaughter, but what else can we really do?
I still have to get up in the morning and make breakfast and go to work and come home and make dinner while my toddler clings to me … I don’t know what else I can do to help.

ReplyJENNY UEBBINGJuly 15, 2015 at 1:43 pmI know. I know… I don’t know what the answer is.

ReplyTERESA RICEJuly 15, 2015 at 5:30 pmI messaged my local TV stations and asked why none of the major networks were covering the story. Doubt I’ll get a reply…

ReplyELLENJuly 15, 2015 at 1:53 pmThe organization’s website has suggestions of helpful actions, including signing a petition, contacting representatives, and sharing the news. I usually avoid the second step, but I know that it does help, and it’s one way to speak up politically. I’m going to use your post as motivation for me to do more this time.

ReplyCHRISTINEJuly 15, 2015 at 2:09 pmIt’s funny how things hit us. This for some reason just floored me. I didn’t sleep last night. I tear up thinking about it. I decided to go to The Daily Beast (ugh) and hope that liberal media would maybe seem things even a little bit the right way, ( they didn’t…DUH ). I have read countless articles that agree with me and it doesn’t help. I have just been sitting here all day with my beautiful babies, feeding them, cuddling them. mothering them…and thinking about the body parts of another human being..who was abandoned and thrown away by their own mothers and society…and I wonder…what my own part in it is? Why am I not screaming at the top of our lungs? We can’t even talk about it reasonably. If it isn’t a person….HOW DOES IT HAVE BODY PARTS!!!!???!!!! Like, it seems so simple to me. Anyways….rant over. Like I said…this one floored me. Like I never would have imagined it.

ReplyNANCYJuly 15, 2015 at 2:10 pmI’ve read a number of things on this topic over the last few days, but yours is a perspective I have not yet seen, and I love it. I have needed it. I hear your “I don’t understand” loud and clear. And I will say this much: I think you are doing more than you know. You are writing. You have a wonderful gift of putting words together, and you’re using that gift to help us all become more aware. And you are raising your children to know the Truth. And right now, you are nurturing a brand new life! Oh yes, you are doing more than you know.

ReplyARIJuly 15, 2015 at 2:21 pmGood one, Jenny. You’re right. And our apathy is also the only thing we can do anything about, besides praying for the victims and perpetrators. As these behaviors become more and more commonplace, our apathy is aided by the fact that what Planned Parenthood is doing is NOT against the law, which is also disturbing. We need such mercy and grace to live in this age and make it out with our lives and souls intact.

ReplyMAMAHJuly 15, 2015 at 2:50 pmYes to all this. I just don’t know where to start. How do we help? What can we do? I feel shackled. When Boko Haram kidnapped those girls, every one held up signs yet no one did anything. I didn’t. They didn’t. Our government didn’t. Same thing…we are upset, then we accept defeat before we even resolve to fight, and we all move on…

ReplySARAHJuly 15, 2015 at 3:06 pmI understand this so completely. I am an exhausted single mom with a full time job. I have this wall up because, if I let this kind of information REALLY sink in, I will fall apart. And I don’t have time for that.

ReplyNATALIEJuly 15, 2015 at 5:25 pmI totally empathize. I think a lot of it for me — my own apathy, that is — is that I’ve realized that I have only a precious amount of emotional energy. Lately with all of the crises in the news, I feel lethargic at the thought of seeking out even more information, knowing fully that it’s going to make me cry/ruin my day/suck my emotional energy. I gotta cut myself off. Ya know?
I won’t reveal much more about myself except that I think the recent decision involving the Little Sisters of the Poor in Denver (where we live) is actually kind of sick and even though I struggle with the contraception debate at times, I feel like the ruling is really scary on some levels.

MAMA NEEDS COFFEE

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You post that and think Gawker requires eye wash. Holy freakin' crap. I give up.

Copyright theft, mtierney? How can Mama Needs Coffee survive as your vital news source if you violate their copyright?

It was on Twitter under another news outlet. Actually the first time I read her blog

My god, is there any anti-liberal propoganda that you won't be completely taken in by?

This is SOoooo not the thread I originally enjoyed in the beginning. My goodness. Pope Francis and his challenges deserves much better than these previous posts

Earlier I said that anyone who doesn't think that the Pope would be a pro life liberal is being disengeuous. Thanks MTierney for proving my point.

It's not a far-fetched comment. He directly called out corporations, austerity, wealth disparity as immoral.

By the way, "liberal" is not an America-specific term.

I have always said that true Catholicism and Christanityis much more leftist than rightest when you get past abortion.

Abortion itself is not a left/right issue. Either a government allows it to be done by doctors or it doesn't. Here it has become politicized because here religion and politics frolic hand in hand. Most everywhere else it's not an issue at all.

ridski said:
Abortion itself is not a left/right issue. Either a government allows it to be done by doctors or it doesn't. Here it has become politicized because here religion and politics frolic hand in hand. Most everywhere else it's not an issue at all.

Funny how that works, with the whole "separation of church and state" thing, isn't it?

oneofthegirls said:
This is SOoooo not the thread I originally enjoyed in the beginning. My goodness. Pope Francis and his challenges deserves much better than these previous posts

The title of this thread clearly includes the challenges facing Pope Francis AND Catholics and Christians world wide. Many diverse issues have been discussed on this thread as well as on the original version with the same title.

It has always been my intent for this thread to cover Catholic thought, beliefs, and our reality in a secular culture.

For those who believe that life begins at conception, abortion is the killing of a miracle.

As I have mentioned before, I am the adoptive mother of three miracles. The topic of abortion resonates with me.

Anyone offended can avoid opening this thread.

I shall soldier on

mtierney said:
So easy to kill the "messenger".
Still no comment on the story

The choice of messenger is always part of the message. But, in the spirit of the actual thread title, here's what I think about the video, in the context of challenges for the Church.

The video is trying to make the case that PP is selling body parts - which is illegal -- and by extension, that they have a profit motive for performing abortions.

I don't think this video actually proves any illegality on the part of PP, though it does raise the possibility that other non-PP clinics might be skirting the law here.

I think the use of human tissue in medical research does raise some thorny ethical issues. But I sincerely doubt the purpose of this video was to invite any kind of serious debate on medical ethics. Let's be honest and admit that the actual issue here is abortion politics. What are the challenges? And since we're in the US here, we'll scope it to challenges in an American context.

The church is emphatically opposed to abortion. There's some good news here in that in fact nearly all American believe fewer abortions to be a worthwhile goal. But here arises some major challenges. For instance, among the most effective ways to reduce abortions is to promote the use of contraception. In Colorado, for instance, they've reduce teen abortions by 42% by offering free contraception. The challenge here, of course, being that the church is also emphatically opposed to contraception.

So there's a political challenge -- do Catholics who follow church teaching on contraception oppose programs like CO's? Or do they perhaps accept pragmatic compromise here and, if not actively opposing programs like this, mute their opposition in the interests of a the greater good of reducing abortions?

And there's also a theological challenge here. Should the actual, lived experience of people using contraception inform church teaching? Should we perhaps revisit Humanae Vitae in light of new evidence?

Finally, there's some moral and ethical challenges. In nearly all cases, abortion is not a first choice -- women arrive there because of real, substantial hardships. If a mother with already born children is facing a serious health issue bringing her baby to term, for instance, is it really the most moral, most ethical position to hold that she must put her health, and the welfare of her already born children, at risk in all cases? If a women is pregnant and faces bleak prospects supporting both herself and child, are we as a nation doing anything to ease that burden?

U.S. teenage pregnancy is half of what it was in 1990. Abortions are also down.