Pope Francis, Catholics, and Christians in the news worldwide

mtierney said:
some sound advice on how to save the Church...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/17/opinion/catholic-church-reform.html?rref=collection%2Fissuecollection%2Ftodays-new-york-times

 From the article: "Yes, there is still holiness in the church. But the sin is so pervasive and corrosive that it is irresponsible to talk about anything else."

Ummmm..... excuse me but isn't that exactly the point I have been making here for years?  A point that you have faithfully rejected, posting about everything BUT with nary a thought or prayer for the victims?

I dearly hope that this means you have, at long last,  had your "come to Jesus" moment.

A start....

https://thejesuitpost.org/2018/08/where-do-we-go-from-here/

It is interesting to observe the unprecedented level of conflict in the Catholic Church at this moment.  Historically speaking, does anyone know of another time in which high ranking Church leaders have openly called on a Pope to step down?

The request for the Pope to step down is one of the healthy signs coming from the Church.  I am not sure that the Church will survive this, but it's a healthy sign that the resignation calls are coming to the open. 

Copihue said:
The request for the Pope to step down is one of the healthy signs coming from the Church.  I am not sure that the Church will survive this, but it's a healthy sign that the resignation calls are coming to the open. 

 Are we sure the calls for resignation are purely related to the scandal?  Seems to me like many want him out for being too liberal.  

Even in the church you can’t let a good scandal go to waste. 

Red_Barchetta said:

Copihue said:
The request for the Pope to step down is one of the healthy signs coming from the Church.  I am not sure that the Church will survive this, but it's a healthy sign that the resignation calls are coming to the open. 

 Are we sure the calls for resignation are purely related to the scandal?  Seems to me like many want him out for being too liberal.  


Even in the church you can’t let a good scandal go to waste. 

 Yeah, my sense is that this comes from a political vendetta on the part of the conservatives more than any real concern for children from these folks who, by and large, were responsible for the tragedy in the first place.

Given the source of the accusations, I would really like to see them substantiated by someone other than an acolyte of the Rat Pope, before I form any opinions.

This NYT article discusses the controversey about the allegations against the Pope, from a conservative Archbishop, who has been politically at odds with him for years:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/27/us/catholic-church-pope-francis-letter.html

Jasmo said:
This NYT article discusses the controversey about the allegations against the Pope, from a conservative Archbishop, who has been politically at odds with him for years:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/27/us/catholic-church-pope-francis-letter.html

 This is a hard one for me.  Folks like mtierney have historically dismissed accusations out of hand because the pedophiles and their enablers shared her political sentiments and I am reluctant to defend the Pope for those same reasons.

At the same time, the Rat Pope Conservatives are the very people who spent decades enabling pedophile priests so for them to suddenly accuse the Pope in a way that very much furthers their agenda is a tad suspicious.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/28/opinion/pope-francis-catholic-church-resign.html?rref=collection%2Fissuecollection%2Ftodays-new-york-times&action=click&contentCollection=todayspaper®ion=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=5&pgtype=collection

This Pope won the hearts of people worldwide from day one with his simple honesty and faith. His belief that goodness will prevail even in a world where evil doers strive to destroy it gave hope to all. I pray that Francis has the heart and health to fix what is broken in the Church.

mtierney said:

This Pope won the hearts of people worldwide from day one with his simple honesty and faith. His belief that goodness will prevail even in a world where evil doers strive to destroy it gave hope to all. I pray that Francis has the heart and health to fix what is broken in the Church.

 Hey, for once we are on the same page!  How's that for a miracle?

Well, now we know the official Church response to all this: the Confessional is sacred, in case abusers should self-confess. They won't change. 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-31/catholic-response-to-royal-commission-child-sex-abuse/10183020 

Well. It's a positive step, but a shockingly light sentence even if brother Gerard is 80 years old.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/sep/03/marist-brother-who-sexually-assaulted-five-boys-sentenced-to-nine-months-jail

good news...

https://buff.ly/2LZsm9K

mtierney said:
good news...


https://buff.ly/2LZsm9K

 To be fair, everyone is a former atheist. No one is born believing in a deity, it's taught.

ridski said:

mtierney said:
good news...


https://buff.ly/2LZsm9K

 To be fair, everyone is a former atheist. No one is born believing in a deity, it's taught.

 Not really. The concept of supreme deity is not present in newborns.

BG9 said:

ridski said:

mtierney said:
good news...


https://buff.ly/2LZsm9K

 To be fair, everyone is a former atheist. No one is born believing in a deity, it's taught.

 Not really. The concept of supreme deity is not present in newborns.

 I do believe that's exactly what I said.

ridski said:

mtierney said:
good news...


https://buff.ly/2LZsm9K

 To be fair, everyone is a former atheist. No one is born believing in a deity, it's taught.

 That would make everybody agnostic (that is, not knowing).  An atheist has a belief that there isn't a deity, so technically that's taught as well.

nohero said:

ridski said:

mtierney said:
good news...


https://buff.ly/2LZsm9K

 To be fair, everyone is a former atheist. No one is born believing in a deity, it's taught.

 That would make everybody agnostic (that is, not knowing).  An atheist has a belief that there isn't a deity, so technically that's taught as well.

Spoken like a true theist!  

Atheism as a rejection of belief in deities can be taught or even rejection of the existence of deities, but atheism isn't just rejection, it's the absence of belief in deities. It's not a belief that they don't exist. One can continue to remain atheist in the face of cultural, familial and societal pressures, or one can give in to those pressures either by choice or otherwise.

Or one may choose agnosticism, but you're not born that way.

ridski said:
Atheism as a rejection of belief in deities can be taught or even rejection of the existence of deities, but atheism isn't just rejection, it's the absence of belief in deities. It's not a belief that they don't exist. One can continue to remain atheist in the face of cultural, familial and societal pressures, or one can give in to those pressures either by choice or otherwise.

Or one may choose agnosticism, but you're not born that way.

I think you're making this a discussion of semantics, not definitions.

A person has an "absence of belief that the world is round" until they learn that their simple perception of what they can see does not tell them the whole story.  But I wouldn't say that we're all born "flat-earthers".

A person is born aglobal, not anti-global. 

BG9 said:

ridski said:

mtierney said:
good news...


https://buff.ly/2LZsm9K

 To be fair, everyone is a former atheist. No one is born believing in a deity, it's taught.

 Not really. The concept of supreme deity is not present in newborns.

ridski said:

mtierney said:
good news...


https://buff.ly/2LZsm9K

 To be fair, everyone is a former atheist. No one is born believing in a deity, it's taught.

 To be even more fair, everyone is born needing care or we would not survive.

 My dependency on my mother and her eventual teachings never left room for me to ever be an atheist, ever, in my 71 years of life experience.

The shift from mom and family and society to atheism is one I cannot fathom.

My thought is you would have to be taught to be an atheist.

I agree with BG9.

Well, apparently theists have an issue with a simple joke based on the headline of mtierney’s article.

And with that, I’ll leave you all to discuss it.

Looks like 5 more states will begin investigations into child abuse by members of the Catholic church.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/06/nyregion/catholic-sex-abuse.html

wedjet said:
Looks like 5 more states will begin investigations into child abuse by members of the Catholic church.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/06/nyregion/catholic-sex-abuse.html

 Necessary and a good move.

You do not have to be taught to be an atheist.  It is a conclusion you can come to on your own.  

I would also like to ask what is wrong with being an atheist?  It does not mean that you don't want to live your life doing good things for others.  I don't need a belief in heaven or hell to want to lead a life that uses morals and ethics.     

When hit with adversity, loss and pain, without faith, it is terrifying. When your life has no ups and downs or setbacks, perhaps you can coast along. Life just isn’t like that however.

You  couldn't be more wrong.  Among other things in the last two years I have had two kinds of cancer with operations, chemo and two different types of radiation.  My mother died when I was 16 after a long illness. I took care of my father for 7 years when he was ill (he died on the living room couch from cancer) and I've had lots of other things happen. 

None of it has terrified me.  Yes, some of it has been more difficult to get through than other things but it hasn't made me want to have some kind of faith, in your sense of faith.   

What you may not want to realize is that everyone is different and that what works for one person does not work for someone else.   

I'm glad that you find your faith so sustaining, but that's not what works for me.  

I admire your strength! 

I do too NoraCharles. There is nothing wrong with being an atheist. And I stand corrected. My eldest son concluded on his own that he is an atheist. There is no love lost there. He respects my faith and I respect his way in this world.