Pope Francis, Catholics, and Christians in the news worldwide
The Grand Jury found that 301 Catholic priests had assaulted children in Pennsylvania. The state only has 982 parishes. The breadth of the coverup necessary to hide wrong doing on that scale is simply astounding. There had to be MANY lay people in these congregations who knew what was happening and chose to do nothing.
imagine if these accusations were leveled at another community. There would be people in the streets.
I don’t understand how this church is still a thing.
mtierney said:
evil exists, but so does goodness.
https://thejesuitpost.org/2018/08/the-murder-of-father-carlos/
Thank you for expressing your perfectly natural outrage at the crimes that were committed against these children.
Your simple demonstration of solidarity and compassion is undoubtedly a comfort to the victims of these appalling acts.
mtierney said:
evil exists, but so does goodness.
https://thejesuitpost.org/2018/08/the-murder-of-father-carlos/
Thoughts and prayers I guess. Right?
Red_Barchetta said:
mtierney said:Thoughts and prayers I guess. Right?
evil exists, but so does goodness.
https://thejesuitpost.org/2018/08/the-murder-of-father-carlos/
Not even. The woman can read about the rape of 1000 children without even a hint of compassion but she claims to care about the lives of the unborn?
I'm not buying it.
We’ve seen it here. The horror is too big for the faithful to handle, it truly shatters what they know to be safe. They can only see one aspect of men they’ve experienced as kind, understanding and inspiring and just can’t in any way factor in contrasting information that tarnishes these experiences because otherwise reality is gone.
Let’s be supportive.
I think people might be more supportive if the poster actually acknowledged the evil in the report and noted they were processing the information and really struggling to reconcile their faith with the criminal behavior of the men who were running it. Btw, the poster earlier in the thread intimated that abuse victims were complicit in the crimes against and should have reported the abuse earlier.
I certainly take no joy or have a “told ya so” attitude with regard to the news because it confirms that more than 1,000 children were physically abused by priests and then further abused by Church hierarchy. And this is a drop in the bucket.
Btw, I did read the story of the murdered priest linked on the thread. As a human being, I am appalled by such violence and hope the murderers are brought to justice, but it comes off as la, la, la, I can’t hear you...
It turns out that I misread the article. Apparently, these findings only include 6 of the 8 the diocese in Pennsylvania. That means that one out of every two parishes in the state was harboring a rapist priest. Abuse happens throughout our society but those numbers are simply astounding.
One wonders why a similar inquiry hasn't been conducted in NJ.
Tralfaz, if you’ve been paying attention, you’ll be aware that ‘the poster’ is coping with a personal situation of some magnitude that adds further depth to matters of faith.
joanne said:
Tralfaz, if you’ve been paying attention, you’ll be aware that ‘the poster’ is coping with a personal situation of some magnitude that adds further depth to matters of faith.
Possibly, but her shocking lack of empathy when it comes to the victims of clerical abuse is a matter of long, long standing.
Joanne, as I do pay attention, I realize that you are perhaps the most Christ-like poster on this thread with regard to compassion, despite not being a Christian. I appreciate the struggle that many Catholics undergo trying to reconcile the good they see in their faith with the criminal acts of men.
The pain caused by this internal struggle is real, and felt by many, including some in my family. That is because they are confronting incontrovertible evidence and not trying to push it aside/block out/offer false equivalence. Reconciliation, so it is taught, requires confessing the sin, doing penance and amending your life (I’m aware the language has changed).
Tralfaz said:
Joanne, as I do pay attention, I realize that you are perhaps the most Christ-like poster on this thread with regard to compassion, despite not being a Christian. I appreciate the struggle that many Catholics undergo trying to reconcile the good they see in their faith with the criminal acts of men.
I believe that Jesus of Nazareth and Joanne of Australia are of the same faith.
Not meaning to change focus of conversation but just diverging for a sec, has this news broken over there yet?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-15/peter-hollingworth-allegations-under-review/10124534
Peter Hollingworth, our former Governor-General, that is the Queen's representative here and our unelected head if State when she is not around, is being re-investigated for having known about and not acted or acted incorrectly in hundreds of cases of child sexual abuse. Previously, he had been regarded as one of the few decent men involved in high-level politics and Church matters. Anglicans are rocked.
Sorry: racing to work now.
If you want to contemplate Catholic Privilege in this country ponder this: How would this country react if it were revealed that 300 imams raped 1000 children in Pennsylvania?
I will bet you someone wouldn't be restricting herself to "thoughts and prayers" under those circumstances.
Klinker said:
If you want to contemplate Catholic Privilege in this country ponder this: How would this country react if it were revealed that 300 imams raped 1000 children in Pennsylvania?
I will bet you someone wouldn't be restricting herself to "thoughts and prayers" under those circumstances.
Or if the priests were raping parishoner’s guns. (That’s obviously ridiculous but i think the point is clear.)
This article appears on Page 1 of today’s paper as “With revulsion, resignation and hope, Catholics take stock”.
“With revulsion, resignation and hope, Catholics take stock”.
Yeah, I think we all read that. Are those emotions you share?
I am struck by how much the reaction focusses on the priests and the individual's experience in the Church. A lot of people thinking about how they will be effected by the report. Lost somewhere in all of that is the sympathy and empathy for the victims that one would expect in a situation like this.
One wonders whether the folks who could experience those emotions still exist in the American Church or whether, like the sister of the man first quoted in the article, they all left when the magnitude of this tragedy became evident to all 15 years ago.
Here's an interesting take on those who feel anger over this:
Those Catholics who are feeling angry today are, in the Christian worldview, feeling God’s anger. This is, as I see it, God’s primary way of acting in the world: through our human emotions. How else would God act, how else would God intervene, how else would God move to change things, other than to rouse in us a burning desire to upend the tables of the clerical culture and chase out all those who have defamed and abused the trust placed in them?
Whether this is true or not, I do feel those not feeling real anger are spiritually dead. They'll be warmly welcomed into their after life.
Hypocrisy:
Pennsylvania Catholics (of whom I am one: I grew up in the Archdiocese of Philadelphia) have shared their personal anger with me as they read about pastors they knew who had taken unforgiving stances with them on sexual matters while raping children.
Disgusting and Sacrilegious:
One priest had his victim wash his mouth out with holy water after being forced to perform a sex act on the priest.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/15/opinion/the-virtues-of-catholic-anger.html
joanne said:
This is an historic outcome.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-16/record-payout-awarded-for-christian-brothers-church-sex-abuse/10128456
Really???
$1M ain’t sh1t.
Klinker said:
If you want to contemplate Catholic Privilege in this country ponder this: How would this country react if it were revealed that 300 imams raped 1000 children in Pennsylvania?
I had thoughts along those lines but it wouldn't take 300 imams raping 1000 kids. 1 imam raping one kid would lead to vicious attacks on all Muslims.
Klinker said:
Red_Barchetta said:Not even. The woman can read about the rape of 1000 children without even a hint of compassion but she claims to care about the lives of the unborn?
mtierney said:Thoughts and prayers I guess. Right?
evil exists, but so does goodness.
https://thejesuitpost.org/2018/08/the-murder-of-father-carlos/
I'm not buying it.
Yes, evil exists. Based on past posts, Klinker doesn't see goodness anywhere. It must be a very sad existence.
lord_pabulum said:
Klinker said:Yes, evil exists. Based on past posts, Klinker doesn't see goodness anywhere. It must be a very sad existence.
Red_Barchetta said:Not even. The woman can read about the rape of 1000 children without even a hint of compassion but she claims to care about the lives of the unborn?
mtierney said:Thoughts and prayers I guess. Right?
evil exists, but so does goodness.
https://thejesuitpost.org/2018/08/the-murder-of-father-carlos/
I'm not buying it.
Klinker has acknowledged good in plenty of posts over the years.
Possibly YOU’RE having a problem perceiving it???
Some comforting words for our community of faith...
Red_Barchetta said:
joanne said:Really???
This is an historic outcome.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-16/record-payout-awarded-for-christian-brothers-church-sex-abuse/10128456
$1M ain’t sh1t.
Truly sad his life was almosted destroyed before he was to receive justice, and incredibly sad that all he ever wanted was official recognition and apology. And now he’s dying.
can we find other verbs with which to discuss these enquirers and investigations, PLEASE?? ‘Probe’ just isn’t appropriate, and it’s about time journalists and police stopped using it.
Ugh.
#hadenough.
some sound advice on how to save the Church...
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From the article: "The report catalogs horrific instances of abuse, including a priest who raped a young girl in the hospital after she had her tonsils out, and another priest who was allowed to stay in ministry after impregnating a 17-year-old girl, forging a signature on a marriage certificate and then divorcing the girl.
The report said that church officials followed a “playbook for concealing the truth:” minimize the abuse using words like “inappropriate contact” instead of “rape”; assign priests untrained in sexual abuse cases to investigate their colleagues; when removing an accused priest, don’t inform the community of the real reasons."