Thank you Game of Thrones

As much as I enjoy portions of GOT, I have to admit it can be one of the most confusing shows I've ever watched. So many characters, so many plot threads. I guess if you're truly a devoted fan (as my 20-something son is), you can follow the developments more clearly. But for casual viewers like my spouse and me, the show is often head-spinning (and head-scratching). 

It's very hard for me see how anyone could be a "casual viewer" of GoT. One of my coworkers watches every second or third episode. I can't imagine what the story must seem like in her mind, or how she can enjoy it with so many missing pieces.

The television show is so much easier to follow than the books that I'm actually quite grateful to them for condensing a whole lot MORE confusing stuff so I can wrap my poor brain around it. One thing they have eliminated for the show is a pretender, a young man in the books who thinks he has a claim to the Iron Throne and is going to collect it. Like we needed one more of those???? 

Come to think of it, whatever happened to Gendry? I had high hopes for that young man. And someone should really take Lord Robert and throw him right through the moon door, cuz I don't think he'll ever do more than whine.

When I said "casual viewer," I just meant one who doesn't read all the background info, view the talk show analysis, study the books, etc. I do watch every episode and discuss them with my son, who is a passionate fan. But he clearly has a much deeper understanding than I do. (After our discussions, sometimes I'm even more confused, but don't tell him.)

BrickPig said:

It's very hard for me see how anyone could be a "casual viewer" of GoT. One of my coworkers watches every second or third episode. I can't imagine what the story must seem like in her mind, or how she can enjoy it with so many missing pieces.

@ PeggyC: I couldn't agree more about the show vs. the books. I've read and, mostly, enjoyed all the books, but I think the show is much more consistently on-point and cleanly plotted.

Last we saw of Gendry was when he was when Davos helped him escape the dungeons at Dragonstone, put him in a small boat, and told him to go to King's Landing. Hopefully he made it and is working there in a blacksmith shop, keeping his head down and trying to eke out a life.

@unicorn33: Oh, I misunderstood what you were saying, then.

the show jumped the shark when they brought back jon snow from the dead.  why dont they just bring everyone back from the dead.  

Robert_Casotto said:

the show jumped the shark when they brought back jon snow from the dead.  why dont they just bring everyone back from the dead.  

I think Jon Snow had a following that was ready to abandon the show if he didn't come back. I may just be projecting here.

He was one of the few romantic male leads. While I love to follow the story line of the true villains, its nice to have a melancholy, brooding, handsome hero in the tale. (Did I use enough adjectives?)

"Killing" him was a way to get him away from the wall. Now that he has died he is no longer beholden to the Night's Watch ("Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.") I thought it was a lame fakeout, especially as a season-ending cliffhanger. But there is a certain logic to it. There's no way they brought him back due to fan reaction. From the start, the show has made a point of killing significant characters. It's part of its brand at this point. 

Morganna said:

Robert_Casotto said:

the show jumped the shark when they brought back jon snow from the dead.  why dont they just bring everyone back from the dead.  

I think Jon Snow had a following that was ready to abandon the show if he didn't come back. I may just be projecting here.

He was one of the few romantic male leads. While I love to follow the story line of the true villains, its nice to have a melancholy, brooding, handsome hero in the tale. (Did I use enough adjectives?)

Robert_Casotto said:

the show jumped the shark when they brought back jon snow from the dead.  why dont they just bring everyone back from the dead.  

On the contrary, this has been one of the best seasons yet, IMO.

I read all the books as did my son, ( years apart).  I find G.R.R.M. to be very wordy but the actual plot and characters have given me hours of pleasure.  I can't remember a more satisfying adaptation of a favorite series.  Jon Snow ( IMHO) is the heart of the show, the real "hero" who is now free to begin his hero's quest.  Great season, I particularly like "not knowing" since we are now past where the books left off.

irishclan said:

I read all the books as did my son, ( years apart).  I find G.R.R.M. to be very wordy but the actual plot and characters have given me hours of pleasure.  I can't remember a more satisfying adaptation of a favorite series.  Jon Snow ( IMHO) is the heart of the show, the real "hero" who is now free to begin his hero's quest.  Great season, I particularly like "not knowing" since we are now past where the books left off.

I agree, on all points. You reach a point where you can't keep killing the "good" characters, because if it was all villains, no one would watch. I think the show was teetering on the brink of killing off too many of the people we root for.

Don't think you can discount Daenerys as a hero, although who knows where that's going. Maybe she turns into the big villain to Jon's hero. 

Dany seems to be out to conquer the world, but she doesn't appear to know what to do with it once she's got it. There is a streak in her that reminds me of her brother and father: power mad, but to what end? She seems to WANT to be a good ruler, but has she got a clue HOW?

I wonder at times if we will see Dany and Jon ruling together, advised by Tyrion, Arya, and Bran, with an assist from Varys. Baelish seems to be motivated by sel-interest exclusively. I kind of want him gone. But Jorah Mormont can come back and help run the army with Brienne and Tormund. 

I feel bad for Tommen, though. He has good instincts, and Tywin might have made a good king of him. But he is being pulled in all directions by conflicting ideals, which doesn't bode well.

The only way Jon and Daenerys could rule together is if they got married, which seems...potentially problematic. I suppose he could end up as her Hand or something. But I could also see a scenario where she continues down the darkening path she seems to possibly be on and she and Jon end up battling it out at the end. It does seem like the climax has to somehow involve dragons battling white walkers (the whole thing is all a song of ice and fire, after all), so who knows. 

I don't know...I could see Jon, Daenerys, a bunch of our other fighting friends and the dragons triumphing over the white walkers, but at the cost of their lives, leaving Tyrion on the throne, (perhaps even with an older, wiser Sansa at his side?), to bring Westros into a new age.

But, if I had to bet, I wouldn't bet against Jon Snow and Daenerys.

imonlysleeping said:

The only way Jon and Daenerys could rule together is if they got married, which seems...potentially problematic. I suppose he could end up as her Hand or something. But I could also see a scenario where she continues down the darkening path she seems to possibly be on and she and Jon end up battling it out at the end. It does seem like the climax has to somehow involve dragons battling white walkers (the whole thing is all a song of ice and fire, after all), so who knows. 

PeggyC said:

Dany seems to be out to conquer the world, but she doesn't appear to know what to do with it once she's got it. There is a streak in her that reminds me of her brother and father: power mad, but to what end? She seems to WANT to be a good ruler, but has she got a clue HOW?

I wonder at times if we will see Dany and Jon ruling together, advised by Tyrion, Arya, and Bran, with an assist from Varys. Baelish seems to be motivated by sel-interest exclusively. I kind of want him gone. But Jorah Mormont can come back and help run the army with Brienne and Tormund. 

I feel bad for Tommen, though. He has good instincts, and Tywin might have made a good king of him. But he is being pulled in all directions by conflicting ideals, which doesn't bode well.

Hmm, to bad for Tommen that Mommy Dearest is such an irresistible force.

Tommen and Margaery are up to something. After her scene with Loras, I don't believe for a second she has found religion. I think maybe she is playing Tommen to get Loras out of prison somehow...

I was very excited to see Uncle Benjen, despite the extreme serendipity of him coming back just in time to swing a fiery mace at the walkers... Sheesh. Just a little too convenient.

I'm seeing a show within a show:  The Fantastic Four:  Jon, Sansa, Bran, and Arya each with their own super power.  

I'm not sure what Sansa's power will be, maybe to make them matching uniforms. 

Speaking as a fan and fellow Wildcat, I'm getting a little impatient with GRRM's aspirational play within a play. Shakespeare did it better.

Red_Barchetta said:

I'm seeing a show within a show

Yes, the play was tiresome, but how else could Arya run away to be on the stage?   

PeggyC said:

Yes, the play was tiresome, but how else could Arya run away to be on the stage?  " src="/res/static/common/plugins/redactor/emoticons/1.0/images/5.gif" unselectable="on"> 

So when the star can not go on, the director will say, "there is a sweet kid here that knows every line yeah she's in the chorus but she can dance and sing better than....."

Hmmm, I think Busby Berkley could direct that in a heart beat.

Swedgen!!!

But not for long.

Red_Barchetta said:

Swedgen!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtObLJ1yXvU&feature=player_embedded

A hound is always welcome

So now the Hound is still alive?  Who else is still alive?

He wasn't dead when Arya left him...

As my nephew keeps saying, we are set now for "Clegane Bowl," since the Mountain and the Hound are both still alive. All we need is for things to come to a head. 

I'm so disgusted with Jaime Lannister. When he was with Lady Cat and Brienne, his own sense of honor was coming to the surface, and I had some hope for him as a human being. But once he got back to Cersei, he threw that honor right out the window. 

Question: When is Lady Cat coming back?? We know from the books that she has been revived as a zombie of sorts, but is she ever going to reappear in the show?

#starkfamilyreunion

I assume a character is alive unless we see them die on screen, and sometimes even if we do see them die on screen. I am waiting for Stanis to show up, Brienne paused for a moment before she swung her sword and there was no gore. There is always some gore. 

Jamie's honor is always conflicted when it comes to his family. He doesn't seem very interested in taking that castle so I have a feeling he will make a deal to get back to Kings Landing faster. What ever happened to going to war with Dorn? That seemed to fall off the radar. If I were Jamie I'd be worried, he doesn't seem necessary for any of the current story lines.

So who gets to kill Ramsey? So many people in line.

Why can't the Nights King march south? Uncle Benjin said something about him not being able to go south of the wall. Speaking of Uncle Benjin, I take it that he is some kind of undead thing now? 

Why would the Brothers Without Banners kill all of those people? I thought they had a Robin Hood thing going on against the Nobility. 

Bram better get less annoying real soon. They lay around in that heroin den tree for ever and gets almost everyone killed. He goes back in time to find out Hodor is the way he is because he went back in time instead of running away?  

PeggyC said:

I'm so disgusted with Jaime Lannister. When he was with Lady Cat and Brienne, his own sense of honor was coming to the surface, and I had some hope for him as a human being. But once he got back to Cersei, he threw that honor right out the window. 

I'm not sure what you mean by this, there is so much gray area now.  The thing that occurred to me last night is who are the real bad guys left?  As I see it:  Ramsey Bolton is the only big one left (aside from the WW's).  Sure there's Walter Frey, and the guy now in charge of the ironborn, but they seem minor to me.  

Last thing... How the hell is Daenerys going to control the Khalisar?  Maybe she ships them west and takes the throne, what then?   They will want to go on to rape and pillage from there.