SUPERDELEGATES
nohero said:
ml1 said:I'll add that it's obviously not a "blocking" rule, because it doesn't keep anyone (not even Bernie) from just joining the Democratic Party and running.
RealityForAll said:there was likely no rule because it hadn't occurred to anyone that someone who didn't belong to the party would seek its nomination.
If there were no rules before, then why are rules needed now?
My conclusion: to block one individual, Bernie Sanders.
and it doesn't block anyone. It merely requires Sanders (or anyone else) to join the party if he seeks its nomination for president.
I supported Sanders in '16, and I think it would be good for the party if he runs again. But I also believe he should join the Democratic Party if he wants to run for office as a Democrat.
It's really pretty simple, elementary stuff. It's actually kind of nutty that anyone should think otherwise. Why on earth would anyone think it's unusual for a political party to want its nominees to be members?
Exactly.
And how anyone can construe such a rule as a "purity test" is beyond me. I'll predict right now that at least one, and probably more than one person runs for the Democratic POTUS nomination in 2020 and puts forth some social democratic ideas in one form or another. A lot of what Sanders ran on was popular with the electorate overall in 2016, not just with Democrats. That's why he captured so much attention. Yes, he's an eccentric among they typical politicians. But he didn't gain support as a "curiosity" or freak show. He was popular because his ideas resonate with a lot of people.
'Slap in the Face' to Progressive Outsiders as DNC Adopts Rule Forcing Presidential Candidates to Be Members of Democratic Party
"I'm just stunned that the Democratic Party’s rules committee would want to try to make the Democratic Party an exclusive club, for which we want to exclude voters and large segments of the American electorate."
Morganna said:
What are your thoughts about the need to push NY, NJ and CA into an earlier spot in the primaries?
I don't know. For me the overall goal is to try to get a nominee that, to the best extent possible, is the person the majority of party voters support. Do you get a more accurate measurement of this by doing all the voting at once, or is it better to stagger it so that the candidates have to spend time introducing themselves (and, hopefully, learning from the voters)? The ideal system strives for an accurate count, but also strives to increase engagement and enthusiasm across the whole party, both from the candidates and the voters.
Now that I write this out, I'm thinking having votes spread out over time is better, but I'm not sure what the optimal ordering would be.
On the topic of what a given party stands for, I don't buy into this idea that parties represent ideologies. They represent identities.
Republicans have it easier, as they represent a more homogenous group of people (relatively speaking -- there are real and significant differences amongst the GOP coalition, but they are smaller than within the Dem one). In the age of Trump, they have it easier still -- the GOP is about sticking it to them. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to find a coherent logic that allows someone to bellow how important Christianity is to them while defending, for instance, Session's war on families. If you see white conservative Christianity as an identity rather than a belief system, and white conservative Christians as part of the GOP coalition of identities, it makes a lot more sense.
Democrats have the harder sell, since they represent them. Billionaire capitalists and vegan socialists are all part of the same sprawling coalition. I'd argue it's a coalition that more truly represents "America," but it's harder to wrap it up in an easy-to-consume narrative, and it makes for far more tension in setting the policy agenda.
nan said:
'Slap in the Face' to Progressive Outsiders as DNC Adopts Rule Forcing Presidential Candidates to Be Members of Democratic Party
"I'm just stunned that the Democratic Party’s rules committee would want to try to make the Democratic Party an exclusive club, for which we want to exclude voters and large segments of the American electorate."
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/06/09/slap-face-progressive-outsiders-dnc-adopts-rule-forcing-presidential-candidates-be?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork
"Democrats Require Presidential Nominee to be a Democrat"
In other news, the Pope is expected to be Catholic.
South_Mountaineer said:
nan said:"Democrats Require Presidential Nominee to be a Democrat"
'Slap in the Face' to Progressive Outsiders as DNC Adopts Rule Forcing Presidential Candidates to Be Members of Democratic Party
"I'm just stunned that the Democratic Party’s rules committee would want to try to make the Democratic Party an exclusive club, for which we want to exclude voters and large segments of the American electorate."
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/06/09/slap-face-progressive-outsiders-dnc-adopts-rule-forcing-presidential-candidates-be?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork
In other news, the Pope is expected to be Catholic.
And yet, I read somewhere that there is no requirement for the pope to be Catholic. Go figure.
LOST said:
Trump in a nutshell:
“Sometimes I get the impression that the U.S. president believes that only one side wins and the other loses,” Merkel said, adding that she believes in “win-win” situations.
I think I have an entire thread devoted to this phenomenon.
South_Mountaineer said:
nan said:"Democrats Require Presidential Nominee to be a Democrat"
'Slap in the Face' to Progressive Outsiders as DNC Adopts Rule Forcing Presidential Candidates to Be Members of Democratic Party
"I'm just stunned that the Democratic Party’s rules committee would want to try to make the Democratic Party an exclusive club, for which we want to exclude voters and large segments of the American electorate."
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/06/09/slap-face-progressive-outsiders-dnc-adopts-rule-forcing-presidential-candidates-be?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork
In other news, the Pope is expected to be Catholic.
The Democrats are also expected to want to win. So, why would they put a rule in place to piss off and close off more potential candidates and voters? More and more voters identify as Independents. Being a Democrat is just a label, especially since some Democrats vote like Republicans and support Trump. Those Democrats are fine to the Democratic party, but the guy who is most like exemplary Democrat FDR, is shunned. Follow the $$$$$$ and you will find out the real reason for that.
nan said:
South_Mountaineer said:The Democrats are also expected to want to win. So, why would they put a rule in place to piss off and close off more potential candidates and voters? More and more voters identify as Independents. Being a Democrat is just a label, especially since some Democrats vote like Republicans and support Trump. Those Democrats are fine to the Democratic party, but the guy who is most like exemplary Democrat FDR, is shunned. Follow the $$$$$$ and you will find out the real reason for that.
nan said:"Democrats Require Presidential Nominee to be a Democrat"
'Slap in the Face' to Progressive Outsiders as DNC Adopts Rule Forcing Presidential Candidates to Be Members of Democratic Party
"I'm just stunned that the Democratic Party’s rules committee would want to try to make the Democratic Party an exclusive club, for which we want to exclude voters and large segments of the American electorate."
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/06/09/slap-face-progressive-outsiders-dnc-adopts-rule-forcing-presidential-candidates-be?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork
In other news, the Pope is expected to be Catholic.
Why should this rule piss off any potential candidate? If they can't get it through their thick skull that it's only proper to identify as a Dem if you run as a Dem, than that candidate is clearly too stupid (or fanatic) to care about.
drummerboy said:
nan said:Why should this rule piss off any potential candidate? If they can't get it through their thick skull that it's only proper to identify as a Dem if you run as a Dem, than that candidate is clearly too stupid (or fanatic) to care about.
South_Mountaineer said:The Democrats are also expected to want to win. So, why would they put a rule in place to piss off and close off more potential candidates and voters? More and more voters identify as Independents. Being a Democrat is just a label, especially since some Democrats vote like Republicans and support Trump. Those Democrats are fine to the Democratic party, but the guy who is most like exemplary Democrat FDR, is shunned. Follow the $$$$$$ and you will find out the real reason for that.
nan said:"Democrats Require Presidential Nominee to be a Democrat"
'Slap in the Face' to Progressive Outsiders as DNC Adopts Rule Forcing Presidential Candidates to Be Members of Democratic Party
"I'm just stunned that the Democratic Party’s rules committee would want to try to make the Democratic Party an exclusive club, for which we want to exclude voters and large segments of the American electorate."
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/06/09/slap-face-progressive-outsiders-dnc-adopts-rule-forcing-presidential-candidates-be?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork
In other news, the Pope is expected to be Catholic.
Why did they pass this rule in the first place? I'm still trying to figure that out. No one seems to know. I've seen it referred to as the "F**k Bernie" rule, but others say it won't affect him at all. Others said it was in exchange for getting rid of superdelegates, which has not happened yet. So, to your point, it does make logical sense that Democrats run Democrats, but I think it's more important for Democrats to figure out how to win elections and not lose to orange reality show hosts. This rule does not seem to help them win in any way and makes it look like they might be closing the door to popular candidates. Is this what you want the Democrats to spend time doing when they could be adopting a winnable platform instead?
nan said:
South_Mountaineer said:The Democrats are also expected to want to win. So, why would they put a rule in place to piss off and close off more potential candidates and voters? More and more voters identify as Independents. Being a Democrat is just a label, especially since some Democrats vote like Republicans and support Trump. Those Democrats are fine to the Democratic party, but the guy who is most like exemplary Democrat FDR, is shunned. Follow the $$$$$$ and you will find out the real reason for that.
nan said:"Democrats Require Presidential Nominee to be a Democrat"
'Slap in the Face' to Progressive Outsiders as DNC Adopts Rule Forcing Presidential Candidates to Be Members of Democratic Party
"I'm just stunned that the Democratic Party’s rules committee would want to try to make the Democratic Party an exclusive club, for which we want to exclude voters and large segments of the American electorate."
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/06/09/slap-face-progressive-outsiders-dnc-adopts-rule-forcing-presidential-candidates-be?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork
In other news, the Pope is expected to be Catholic.
Two items just today in the news -
Voter suppression in Ohio wins in the Supreme Court, because Trump's pick helps make 5-4.
America will stop granting asylum for victims of abuse and gangs.
If any voters are MORE angry about the Democrats asking their candidates to be Democrats, than they are about just those two things, then Robert De Niro has something to tell them.
South_Mountaineer said:
nan said:"Democrats Require Presidential Nominee to be a Democrat"
'Slap in the Face' to Progressive Outsiders as DNC Adopts Rule Forcing Presidential Candidates to Be Members of Democratic Party
"I'm just stunned that the Democratic Party’s rules committee would want to try to make the Democratic Party an exclusive club, for which we want to exclude voters and large segments of the American electorate."
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/06/09/slap-face-progressive-outsiders-dnc-adopts-rule-forcing-presidential-candidates-be?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork
In other news, the Pope is expected to be Catholic.
Are you suggesting that all positions that require direct communication with god should have the same rules?
Almost 100% of the people that the pope leads are Catholic (I will grant you that others may be inspired by the pope but not led). While, the Democratic presidential nominee will likely also need to appeal to and lead the largest political group in the US, namely Independents. If the nominee desires to be successful.
RealityForAll said:
South_Mountaineer said:Are you suggesting that all positions that require direct communication with god should have the same rules?
"Democrats Require Presidential Nominee to be a Democrat"
In other news, the Pope is expected to be Catholic.
I don’t see how there’s any other inference to make.
RealityForAll said:
Almost 100% of the people that the pope leads are Catholic (I will grant you that others may be inspired by the pope but not led). While, the Democratic presidential nominee will likely also need to appeal to and lead the largest political group in the US, namely Independents. If the nominee desires to be successful.
You seem to be treating the party's nomination process as if it's a general election.
It is not.
nan said:
'Slap in the Face' to Progressive Outsiders as DNC Adopts Rule Forcing Presidential Candidates to Be Members of Democratic Party
Shocker that a club would demand that members pay dues and not simply inherit the work done by others.
dave23 said:
nan said:Shocker that a club would demand that members pay dues and not simply inherit the work done by others.
'Slap in the Face' to Progressive Outsiders as DNC Adopts Rule Forcing Presidential Candidates to Be Members of Democratic Party
It's really ridiculous. If progressive outsiders want to run for office as Democratic Party candidates, just join the party. Why would someone who doesn't want to join the party run as its standard-bearer? It's a stupid, stupid dispute.
If someone wants to remain an outsider, run as an outsider.
ml1 said:
dave23 said:It's really ridiculous. If progressive outsiders want to run for office as Democratic Party candidates, just join the party. Why would someone who doesn't want to join the party run as its standard-bearer? It's a stupid, stupid dispute.
nan said:Shocker that a club would demand that members pay dues and not simply inherit the work done by others.
'Slap in the Face' to Progressive Outsiders as DNC Adopts Rule Forcing Presidential Candidates to Be Members of Democratic Party
If someone wants to remain an outsider, run as an outsider.
Right, you want to keep the party pure and require outsiders to demonstrate their loyalty by joining. You may want to examine your own motivations. IMHO, it appears that you are hostile to new ideas and desire to protect the existing power structure of the Democratic party.
In the general election, I think both republican and democratic candidates spend most of their time trying to get the independent vote. They both assume that hard core party supporters will vote for them.
But why would a democratic primary allow anyone other than a member of their party would not make sense.
I did not see this rule hurting Bernie -- what hurt Bernie was the collusion among some people on the National Democratic Committee. Bernie knew he had to run as a democrat to have any chance.
RealityForAll said:
ml1 said:Right, you want to keep the party pure and require outsiders to demonstrate their loyalty by joining. You may want to examine your own motivations. IMHO, it appears that you are hostile to new ideas and desire to protect the existing power structure of the Democratic party.
It's really ridiculous. If progressive outsiders want to run for office as Democratic Party candidates, just join the party. Why would someone who doesn't want to join the party run as its standard-bearer? It's a stupid, stupid dispute.
If someone wants to remain an outsider, run as an outsider.
Right, they're enforcing purity by asking more people to join the group. If more people join, they can be even more pure. It's BRILLIANT!
RealityForAll said:Right, you want to keep the party pure and require outsiders to demonstrate their loyalty by joining. You may want to examine your own motivations. IMHO, it appears that you are hostile to new ideas and desire to protect the existing power structure of the Democratic party.
There's nothing H about your O, but that's another story. I think the whiners need to put on their big-boy pants and understand that in order to benefit from an organization, it's not unreasonable to be expected to contribute something to that organization--whether it's fundraising, voter outreach and registration, etc.
Here's an analogy. There are all these people who say they don't like the direction the Democratic Party is taking, the way you might not like the direction a car is heading. In 2016, their solution was to jump into another car and run the Democratic car off the road. Result: some other car won.
A better plan, if you don't like the direction in which the car is headed, is to JUMP IN THE CAR AND HELP STEER.
Okay, I'm done.
RealityForAll said:
ml1 said:Right, you want to keep the party pure and require outsiders to demonstrate their loyalty by joining. You may want to examine your own motivations. IMHO, it appears that you are hostile to new ideas and desire to protect the existing power structure of the Democratic party.
dave23 said:It's really ridiculous. If progressive outsiders want to run for office as Democratic Party candidates, just join the party. Why would someone who doesn't want to join the party run as its standard-bearer? It's a stupid, stupid dispute.
nan said:Shocker that a club would demand that members pay dues and not simply inherit the work done by others.
'Slap in the Face' to Progressive Outsiders as DNC Adopts Rule Forcing Presidential Candidates to Be Members of Democratic Party
If someone wants to remain an outsider, run as an outsider.
IMHO your argument makes no sense.
There is nothing, nothing in that requirement that prevents people from bringing new ideas to the party. In fact, it would be the best way to bring new ideas to the party if so-called outsiders join.
RealityForAll said:
IMHO, it appears that you are hostile to new ideas and desire to protect the existing power structure of the Democratic party.
Political party as power structure. 
DaveSchmidt said:
RealityForAll said:Political party as power structure.
IMHO, it appears that you are hostile to new ideas and desire to protect the existing power structure of the Democratic party.
what I really like is people who don't even know me telling me what I believe.
dave23 said:
nan said:Shocker that a club would demand that members pay dues and not simply inherit the work done by others.
'Slap in the Face' to Progressive Outsiders as DNC Adopts Rule Forcing Presidential Candidates to Be Members of Democratic Party
Don't think this is about that. Obama left the DNC in debt, which is why they had the secret deal with Hillary for the nomination. So, paying dues and inheriting work done by others sounds like something written on a brochure somewhere. It's all about supporting the donors who own the politicians. They don't want nominees who are not beholden to the donors.
nan said:
dave23 said:Don't think this is about that. Obama left the DNC in debt, which is why they had the secret deal with Hillary for the nomination. So, paying dues and inheriting work done by others sounds like something written on a brochure somewhere. It's all about supporting the donors who own the politicians. They don't want nominees who are not beholden to the donors.
nan said:Shocker that a club would demand that members pay dues and not simply inherit the work done by others.
'Slap in the Face' to Progressive Outsiders as DNC Adopts Rule Forcing Presidential Candidates to Be Members of Democratic Party
What BS. Why is it wrong for a private political party to require those seeking their support and nomination to be members of their organization? Real simple, but I challenge you to answer this specific question.
Dennis_Seelbach said:
nan said:What BS. Why is it wrong for a private political party to require those seeking their support and nomination to be members of their organization? Real simple, but I challenge you to answer this specific question.
dave23 said:Don't think this is about that. Obama left the DNC in debt, which is why they had the secret deal with Hillary for the nomination. So, paying dues and inheriting work done by others sounds like something written on a brochure somewhere. It's all about supporting the donors who own the politicians. They don't want nominees who are not beholden to the donors.
nan said:Shocker that a club would demand that members pay dues and not simply inherit the work done by others.
'Slap in the Face' to Progressive Outsiders as DNC Adopts Rule Forcing Presidential Candidates to Be Members of Democratic Party
Why is it a problem if this issue was never a problem before?
It appears that this provision is meant to create a system where Bernie sanders must obey large contributors to Democratic party on policy. How do you get new ideas in a world where independents outnumber Dems?
Dennis_Seelbach said:
nan said:What BS. Why is it wrong for a private political party to require those seeking their support and nomination to be members of their organization? Real simple, but I challenge you to answer this specific question.
d
This is one of only two major political parties in our country. All of our leaders come from either this party or the Republicans. If they want to have that much effect on our democracy, they should not be some closed elitist club. Also, they should want to win. It seems they care more about pleasing their donors than even winning. I have no idea why the took the time to pass this rule, or what it is about, but there are so many things they should be spending time on that they just reject. Would not be surprised if they finally collapse and get replaced by a new group.
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I'll add that it's obviously not a "blocking" rule, because it doesn't keep anyone (not even Bernie) from just joining the Democratic Party and running.