Why can't conservatives let us have nice things?
The USAF Concert Band is significantly cheaper than Van Halen, or so I am told.
Where to you dispense with the pomp and circumstance? I am sure the Zoinks is opposed to high school graduation ceremonies. Just email the diplomas.
tjohn said:
Where to you dispense with the pomp and circumstance? I am sure the Zoinks is opposed to high school graduation ceremonies. Just email the diplomas.
If the SOMA school district proposed spending money from its budget to hire a full-time, on-staff professional band to perform at sports events and graduations, would any of us support it?
NizhoniGrrrl said:
They do play for funerals, but, you know, those families should make due with a recording. Or some per diem guy with a horn, not in uniform. Recordings are good for stirring patriotism at honorary events, too. It's not like the troops or their families make sacrifices or anything.
With the huge wave of WW2 vets dying off in recent decades, there is a shortage of trumpet players and sometimes recordings are used at funerals. Both of my parents had military funerals. We were lucky (and honored) to have a live trumpet player as well as a three-volley salute for both funerals. Due to budget constraints, the three-volley salute is no longer being provided to U.S. Air Force veterans.
Iconic patriotic image.
https://www.google.com/search?q=spirit+of+76+painting&biw=1097&bih=546&tbm=isch&imgil=MXXZQ8aoTVlixM%253A%253BDT4POxbBXL1JeM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FFile%25253ASpirit_of_%2776.jpg&source=iu&pf=m&fir=MXXZQ8aoTVlixM%253A%252CDT4POxbBXL1JeM%252C_&usg=__fctDL1URQe1nsM-lYDbp0jtpUcY%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjBq_fUgb_NAhULVj4KHYolAjIQyjcILQ&ei=5klsV8GgEIus-QGKy4iQAw#imgrc=MXXZQ8aoTVlixM%3A
The high school has its own band, so no need to bring in outside musicians, just like the army. And last I checked, students weren't sacrificing or dying for the high school, so not really a good comparison.
NizhoniGrrrl said:
The high school has its own band, so no need to bring in outside musicians, just like the army. And last I checked, students weren't sacrificing or dying for the high school, so not really a good comparison.
The high school has a band made up of volunteers who do it in their spare time, as an extra-curricular activity. Rather than going this perfectly logical route, the military employs full-time professional musicians to do nothing but play music. Big difference.
Actually the high school has both an extracurricular marching band and band as a class for credit. So it isn't voluntary unless you count being a student "voluntary" -and you earn credits for your high school degree. It isn't just members of the marching band who play for all events and ceremonies. Wrong again.
Army band members are soldiers just like army nurses, just different duties. But are you only army if you shoot a gun? I think they all learn to do that even if their duty is to work on a computer all day.
I don't see what class credit has to do with anything. The point is: If the school district proposed hiring full-time on-staff musicians just to perform at events--like the military has--people would think it was ridiculous. Which it would be. As is the idea of having full-time paid military musicians. (This debate is also totally ridiculous in all kinds of ways, of course, but vaguely amusing on a very slow afternoon at work.)
complaining about the "wastefulness" of military bands is like somebody going out and buying a BMW, and Mercedes, a Bentley, a couple of yachts and then saying they need to cut back on the money they waste at Starbucks.
ctrzaska said:
I sure as hell hope Dolly Madison had an office before it burned down.
a) Because you'll know how to take it and
b) Because it's trivia you might appreciate:
Dolley.
True, if that somebody happens to run a high-end-transportation business.
ml1 said:
complaining about the "wastefulness" of military bands is like somebody going out and buying a BMW, and Mercedes, a Bentley, a couple of yachts and then saying they need to cut back on the money they waste at Starbucks.
The high school does have staff musicians who teach music. Comparing the military to a high school is hardly the same thing on many, many levels. Plus, I bet the salaries of all the high school music teachers cost more than the army band.
I'm not the one who initially made the comparison. And nothing you're saying makes any kind of sense.
bramzzoinks said:
Pomp and circumstance is for dictatorships.
No, it's for countries with pride.
NizhoniGrrrl said:
Music has been part of the armed forces since forever. From drumbeats during battle to keep troops focused to lifting troop morale. It is part of the military culture which supports their humanity. But it would probably be better to train killing machines, or how about just killer robots? Then we could cut out humanity completely.
This.
The military relies on esprit de corps and tradition. Bands set the beat for marching, which is a part of instilling discipline and good order.
These guys aren't punching a clock for a paycheck. They are answering to what they believe to be a higher calling. Patriotism. Love of Country.
Tradition, including the pomp of military bands, supports that feeling.
You should thank your lucky stars that these kids are willing to sign up and do what they do. Depriving them of a bit of humanity, and art, is pitiful.
imonlysleeping said:
Maybe so, but once they are assigned to a band unit, that is what they do full-time. They cannot be sent into combat or given other duties. We pay them salaries to do nothing but prance around Disney World and play the occasional National Anthem.
NizhoniGrrrl said:
I do believe army musicians still have to go through basic training. They are soldiers who serve.
I wonder if they had to pay to play at Disneyland --- like the soldiers being honored at football games.
jimmurphy said:
NizhoniGrrrl said:
Music has been part of the armed forces since forever. From drumbeats during battle to keep troops focused to lifting troop morale. It is part of the military culture which supports their humanity. But it would probably be better to train killing machines, or how about just killer robots? Then we could cut out humanity completely.
This.
The military relies on esprit de corps and tradition. Bands set the beat for marching, which is a part of instilling discipline and good order.
These guys aren't punching a clock for a paycheck. They are answering to what they believe to be a higher calling. Patriotism. Love of Country.
Tradition, including the pomp of military bands, supports that feeling.
You should thank your lucky stars that these kids are willing to sign up and do what they do. Depriving them of a bit of humanity, and art, is pitiful.
But they aren't playing for the troops. They are playing at Disneyland, schools, and so forth.
I think you can end the Disneyland gigs without killing the military music division.
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
jimmurphy said:
NizhoniGrrrl said:
Music has been part of the armed forces since forever. From drumbeats during battle to keep troops focused to lifting troop morale. It is part of the military culture which supports their humanity. But it would probably be better to train killing machines, or how about just killer robots? Then we could cut out humanity completely.
This.
The military relies on esprit de corps and tradition. Bands set the beat for marching, which is a part of instilling discipline and good order.
These guys aren't punching a clock for a paycheck. They are answering to what they believe to be a higher calling. Patriotism. Love of Country.
Tradition, including the pomp of military bands, supports that feeling.
You should thank your lucky stars that these kids are willing to sign up and do what they do. Depriving them of a bit of humanity, and art, is pitiful.
But they aren't playing for the troops. They are playing at Disneyland, schools, and so forth.
While this is less important, these appearances serves as a recruiting tool for prospective soldiers and sailors and a reminder to the general public that there are many in service.
It's impossible to imagine singing show tunes for tourists is the most effective recruiting tool at their disposal. Ditch the band units. Hire local musicians for an hour or two for ceremonies and funerals. No big deal. Will it make a budgetary difference? Of course not. Would it make a difference if all of this kind of waste were eliminated from government spending? Yes, it would. Are we supposed to admit this as liberal team players? No way. But the world would be better off if we could step outside of our partisan talking points sometimes and acknowledge basic common sense. Taxpayers just don't need to be be paying for the nonsense I posted above.
imonlysleeping said:
It's impossible to imagine singing show tunes for tourists is the most effective recruiting tool at their disposal.
Bullroar! A rousing chorus of "Zippy-de-do-da," sung at Disneyland by the Singing Sargents --- who wouldn't enlist. Follow that by George M. Cohen's, "Over There," and the recruiting quota is filled for the year.
but again, why did the congresswoman go straight to the idea of getting rid of music? why not eliminating the military boxing teams or the baseball teams? Why do conservatives always immediately target art and music for elimination?
ml1 said:
but again, why did the congresswoman go straight to the idea of getting rid of music? why not eliminating the military boxing teams or the baseball teams? Why do conservatives always immediately target art and music for elimination?
She's not. She's just sore because the Air Force wants to get rid of the A-10 Warthog. Of course, there is some reason to believe that the A-10 is not the most cost effective close air support option, but Congress doesn't make military decisions based on hard facts.
ml1 said:
I'm trying to understand why we spend millions of dollars on wasteful items like condiments for soldiers' meals. Why should we as taxpayers do anything more than put nutritious food in front of military personnel? If they want their food to taste good, they can buy seasonings just like us civilians.
+10
I don't know why soldiers can't make do with hardtack and salt pork. Bunch of babies. Next we'll be building Whole Foods stores in Afghanistan.
RealityForAll said:
ml1 said:
I'm trying to understand why we spend millions of dollars on wasteful items like condiments for soldiers' meals. Why should we as taxpayers do anything more than put nutritious food in front of military personnel? If they want their food to taste good, they can buy seasonings just like us civilians.
+10
Would be hard to find a soldier who thinks current MREs are in any way appealing, ketchup or no ketchup. Given your concern for our military's palates, maybe you think we should be hiring a fleet of high-end chefs to source fancy ingredients? Caviar all around! After all, our troops deserve it. It's just money. A drop in the bucket compared to that plane--what's stopping us?
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They do play for funerals, but, you know, those families should make due with a recording. Or some per diem guy with a horn, not in uniform. Recordings are good for stirring patriotism at honorary events, too. It's not like the troops or their families make sacrifices or anything.