Who Meddled more Putin or Trump? The Collusion Thread visits Venezuela
DaveSchmidt said:
A thoughtfully inconclusive article in today’s Times:
Bolivia Crisis Shows the Blurry Line Between Coup and Uprising
Thoughtless, conclusive headline by pro-coup NY Times:
Not surprising that the Times is blaming Morales for the military coup. While it called the Chilean military coup a "coup" the Times placed most of the blame on Allende. And note the phony denial of US involvement.
It's deja vue all over again.
https://www.nytimes.com/1973/09/12/archives/tragedy-in-chile.html?searchResultPosition=4
Any military coup is a tragedy, representing a breakdown of civilian authority and usually the collapse of government by consent. It is especially tragic for Chile, where sturdy democratic machinery had functioned, for many years and the armed forces had a strong tradition of keeping to their barracks. The Chilean tragedy will compounded if the report of President Salvador Allende Gossens' suicide proves to be true. In a country as bitterly divided as Chile has become during President Allende's three years in office, It will require tremendous skill and tact by the military chiefs now to avert widespread civil strife.
No Chilean party or faction can escape some responsibility for the disaster, but a heavy share must be assigned to the unfortunate Dr. Allende himself. Even when the dangers of polarization had become unmistakably evi dent, he persisted in pushing a program of pervasive socialism for which he had no popular mandate. His governing coalition—especially his own Socialist party—pursued this goal by dubious means, including attempts to bypass both Congress and the courts.
Dr. Allende might have survived had he been able or willing to consolidate his considerable gains for socialism and to offer genuine cooperation in the Congress to the opposition Christian Democrats, Chile's largest party. Instead, the tactics of his coalition induced the moderate Christian Democrats to join the right wing National party in opposition and obstruction. As the crisis deepened last week, Dr. Allende rejected a compromise overture from former President Eduardo Frei, the Christian Democratic leader.
While there is no evidence that the Nixon Administration seriously considered the maneuvers against Dr. Allende suggested in 1970 by the C.I.A. or the International Telephone and Telegraph Corporation, it is essential that Washington meticulously keep hands off the present, crisis, which only Chileans can resolve. There must be no grounds whatsoever for even a suspicion of outside intervention.
Did Ryan Grim get this right, or has the NY Times covered this?
https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1196224557633409025?s=20
Evo Morales’ party, MAS, controls 2/3 of the legislature. The new self-declared ruler
is promising to arrest those democratically elected lawmakers. US media utterly silent.
Not a surprise. The Russian troll company wasn't controlled by the Russian government (per Mueller) and the $100K it invested in click-baits had no impact on the election.
https://twitter.com/chris_bail/status/1199058772515262466?s=20
Chris Bail@chris_bail·22h
1/n Did Russian trolls actually influence the attitudes and behaviors of U.S. social media users? Our Polarization Lab’s new article suggests the answer might be “no”
https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/11/20/1906420116
Assessing the Russian Internet Research Agency’s impact on the political attitudes and behaviors of American Twitter users in late 2017
Christopher A. Bail, Brian Guay, Emily Maloney, Aidan Combs, D. Sunshine Hillygus, Friedolin Merhout, Deen Freelon, and View ORCID ProfileAlexander Volfovsky PNAS first published November 25, 2019
Edited by Arild Underdal, University of Oslo, Oslo, Norway, and approved October 22, 2019 (received for review April 15, 2019)
Abstract
There is widespread concern that Russia and other countries have launched social-media campaigns designed to increase political divisions in the United States. Though a growing number of studies analyze the strategy of such campaigns, it is not yet known how these efforts shaped the political attitudes and behaviors of Americans. We study this question using longitudinal data that describe the attitudes and online behaviors of 1,239 Republican and Democratic Twitter users from late 2017 merged with nonpublic data about the Russian Internet Research Agency (IRA) from Twitter. Using Bayesian regression tree models, we find no evidence that interaction with IRA accounts substantially impacted 6 distinctive measures of political attitudes and behaviors over a 1-mo period. We also find that interaction with IRA accounts were most common among respondents with strong ideological homophily within their Twitter network, high interest in politics, and high frequency of Twitter usage. Together, these findings suggest that Russian trolls might have failed to sow discord because they mostly interacted with those who were already highly polarized. We conclude by discussing several important limitations of our study—especially our inability to determine whether IRA accounts influenced the 2016 presidential election—as well as its implications for future research on social media influence campaigns, political polarization, and computational social science.
Questions to the OAS by four US representatives that expose the lies of the OAS that played a decisive role the military coup against Evo Morales:
https://schakowsky.house.gov/uploads/OAS%20Boliva_Final.pdf
Will this letter and these questions be reported in coup-denying NY Times?
paulsurovell said:
Questions to the OAS by four US representatives that expose the lies of the OAS that played a decisive role the military coup against Evo Morales:
https://schakowsky.house.gov/uploads/OAS%20Boliva_Final.pdf
Will this letter and these questions be reported in coup-denying NY Times?
No idea.
Meanwhile, Rep. Schakowsky has an endorsement: "Ahead of her Saturday night town hall on Chicago’s North Side, Democratic presidential candidate and Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren received the endorsement of 10-term U.S. Rep. Jan Schakowsky of Evanston."
nohero said:
paulsurovell said:
Questions to the OAS by four US representatives that expose the lies of the OAS that played a decisive role the military coup against Evo Morales:
https://schakowsky.house.gov/uploads/OAS%20Boliva_Final.pdf
Will this letter and these questions be reported in coup-denying NY Times?
No idea.
Do you think the letter and the questions are newsworthy?
Meanwhile, Rep. Schakowsky has an endorsement: "Ahead of her Saturday night town hall on Chicago’s North Side, Democratic presidential candidate and Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren received the endorsement of 10-term U.S. Rep. Jan Schakowsky of Evanston."
That's consistent with the letter. Did you see this statement (at 3:00) by Warren covered in the NY Times?
(Click text above for full article)
nohero said:
(Click text above for full article)
"No top-down interference" doesn't mean "no interference".
Coming soon: Interview with Evo Morales by Glenn Greenwald:
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1201648779054780416?s=20
And Kudos to the NY Times for publishing a major op-ed piece by Glenn:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/25/opinion/glenn-greenwald-bolsonaro-brazil.html
paulsurovell said:
Coming soon: Interview with Evo Morales by Glenn Greenwald:
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1201648779054780416?s=20
And Kudos to the NY Times for publishing a major op-ed piece by Glenn:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/25/opinion/glenn-greenwald-bolsonaro-brazil.html
Thanks! I look forward to hearing the Morales interview. Also, the op-ed from one of the bravest journalists on the planet.
More foreign interference in the 2016 election on behalf of Hillary. From a Mueller witness, no less.:
paulsurovell said:
More foreign interference in the 2016 election on behalf of Hillary. From a Mueller witness, no less.:
"The indictment accused Mr. Nader of funneling more than $3.5 million in illicit campaign donations through Mr. Khawaja to buy access and influence in Washington — initially with Mrs. Clinton and her Democratic allies during the 2016 campaign, and then with Donald J. Trump after he won the election — to gain 'favor' and 'potential financial support' from an unnamed foreign government."
nohero said:
paulsurovell said:
More foreign interference in the 2016 election on behalf of Hillary. From a Mueller witness, no less.:
"The indictment accused Mr. Nader of funneling more than $3.5 million in illicit campaign donations through Mr. Khawaja to buy access and influence in Washington — initially with Mrs. Clinton and her Democratic allies during the 2016 campaign, and then with Donald J. Trump after he won the election — to gain 'favor' and 'potential financial support' from an unnamed foreign government."
When we consider foreign interference in the 2016 election, the first bold is relevant, the second is not.
Edited to add: Ken Vogel on the case again.
Maduro found a creative way to resolve Venezuela's constitutional crisis (reminiscent of Captain Kirk's solution to the Kobayashi Maru test) - he "hacked" the National Assembly.
To maintain his claim the interim presidency, Mr. Guaidó needed to be re-elected as head of the Assembly on Sunday, according to analysts inside and outside the country. His victory was expected, since the opposition controls the legislative body.
But at the last minute, members of the National Guard prevented Mr. Guaidó and other supporters from entering the Assembly’s building. Video footage showed Mr. Guaidó attempting to climb over the spiked metal fence to gain entry to the building where the vote would be held.
Inside, Mr. Maduro’s party swore in as head of the Assembly a legislator named Luis Parra, a former member of the opposition who turned against Mr. Guaidó after the Assembly leader opened a corruption claim against him. There was no vote count.
There's a word for using the military to interfere with the regular workings of elected government officials.
Edited to add:
The "corruption claim" described above is the one Paul referred to last month:
paulsurovell said:
The latest on Guaido.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/missed-moment-opposition-corruption-scandal-181802527.html
Turns out that Guaidó was investigating the corruption, and Maduro was using it for his own purposes.
How are things going for everybody's favorite autocrat, President Maduro?
Oh. Venezuelan (and some foreign) journalists risk life and limb so the world can see how Maduro's regime functions. It's all here, in one video after another: Regime thugs beating up reporters and opposition activists at the Caracas airport this afternoon. https://t.co/6zGse7Xa5C
President Maduro has had better weeks.
Since at least 1999, [Former President of Venezuela Nicolás] Maduro Moros, Cabello Rondón, Carvajal Barrios and Alcalá Cordones, acted as leaders and managers of the Cártel de Los Soles, or “Cartel of the Suns.” The Cartel’s name refers to the sun insignias affixed to the uniforms of high-ranking Venezuelan military officials. Maduro Moros and the other charged Cartel members abused the Venezuelan people and corrupted the legitimate institutions of Venezuela—including parts of the military, intelligence apparatus, legislature, and the judiciary—to facilitate the importation of tons of cocaine into the United States. The Cártel de Los Soles sought to not only enrich its members and enhance their power, but also to “flood” the United States with cocaine and inflict the drug’s harmful and addictive effects on users in the United States.
And the correct response is -
"Who is Russia?"
Republican-Led Review Backs Intelligence Findings on Russian Interference
For years, President Trump has derided the assessment by American intelligence officials that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election to assist his candidacy, dismissing it without evidence as the work of a “deep state” out to undermine his victory.
But on Tuesday, a long-awaited Senate review led by members of Mr. Trump’s own party effectively undercut those allegations. A three-year review by the Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee unanimously found that the intelligence community assessment, pinning blame on Russia and outlining its goals to undercut American democracy, was fundamentally sound and untainted by politics.
Trump and his cohorts have repeated the Russian hoax line enough that it has always outweighed the underlying problem.
I'm sure we could go to Greenwald's twitter page to find out why this assessment is wrong and incomplete or fabricated.
This sounds familiar:
RT hires or makes contractual agreements with Westerners with views that fit its agenda and airs them on RT. Simonyan said on the pro-Kremlin show "Minaev Live" on 10 April that RT has enough audience and money to be able to choose its hosts, and it chooses the hosts that "think like us," "are interested in working in the anti-mainstream," and defend RT's beliefs on social media. Some hosts and journalists do not present themselves as associated with RT when interviewing people, and many of them have affiliations to other media and activist organizations in the United States
paulsurovell said:
So we have a NYT "bombshell" story that Donald Jr. met with a Russian lawyer who provided no information.
On the other hand, we have stories that
(a) Hillary supporters paid for dirt on Trump from alleged Russian officials and
(b) the Ukrainian government provided dirt on Trump to Hillary's campaign.Who colluded more?
We have an answer to this question now. It was not Hillary.
paulsurovell said:
I can't post on the "Barr Report . . " thread, so I selected a couple of comments from there on the dispute about whether Mueller actually said Kilimnik was a Russian spy. It appears that Mueller had good reason to imply that Kilimnik was a Russian spy rather than to assert that he was one.
Because it turns out, according to reported State Department documents, Kilimnik was indeed a spy -- for the United States -- and Mueller knew it. If confirmed, that means Mueller lied by innuendo, and all the other innuendos involving Kilimnik and Manafort are based on that lie.
And when it's confirmed that Joseph Mifsud was a US or Western asset (maybe a "spy"), the entire investigation will be exposed as a lie. And then it will be necessary to investigate who sent Mifsud to meet with Papadopoulous and why. Hopefully that is what Barr is pursuing.
Oops.
"Konstantin Kilimnik (Kilimnik) is a Russian and Ukrainian political consultant and known Russian Intelligence Services agent implementing influence operations on their behalf. During the 2016 U.S. presidential election campaign, Kilimnik provided the Russian Intelligence Services with sensitive information on polling and campaign strategy. Additionally, Kilimnik sought to promote the narrative that Ukraine, not Russia, had interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. In 2018, Kilimnik was indicted on charges of obstruction of justice and conspiracy to obstruct justice regarding unregistered lobbying work. Kilimnik has also sought to assist designated former President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych. At Yanukovych’s direction, Kilimnik sought to institute a plan that would return Yanukovych to power in Ukraine.
"Kilimnik was designated pursuant to E.O. 13848 for having engaged in foreign interference in the U.S. 2020 presidential election. Kilimnik was also designated pursuant to E.O. 13660 for acting for or on behalf of Yanukovych. Yanukovych, who is currently hiding in exile in Russia, was designated in 2014 pursuant to E.O. 13660 for his role in violating Ukrainian sovereignty."
nohero said:
paulsurovell said:
I can't post on the "Barr Report . . " thread, so I selected a couple of comments from there on the dispute about whether Mueller actually said Kilimnik was a Russian spy. It appears that Mueller had good reason to imply that Kilimnik was a Russian spy rather than to assert that he was one.
Because it turns out, according to reported State Department documents, Kilimnik was indeed a spy -- for the United States -- and Mueller knew it. If confirmed, that means Mueller lied by innuendo, and all the other innuendos involving Kilimnik and Manafort are based on that lie.
And when it's confirmed that Joseph Mifsud was a US or Western asset (maybe a "spy"), the entire investigation will be exposed as a lie. And then it will be necessary to investigate who sent Mifsud to meet with Papadopoulous and why. Hopefully that is what Barr is pursuing.
Oops.
"Konstantin Kilimnik (Kilimnik) is a Russian and Ukrainian political consultant and known Russian Intelligence Services agent implementing influence operations on their behalf. During the 2016 U.S. presidential election campaign, Kilimnik provided the Russian Intelligence Services with sensitive information on polling and campaign strategy. Additionally, Kilimnik sought to promote the narrative that Ukraine, not Russia, had interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. In 2018, Kilimnik was indicted on charges of obstruction of justice and conspiracy to obstruct justice regarding unregistered lobbying work. Kilimnik has also sought to assist designated former President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych. At Yanukovych’s direction, Kilimnik sought to institute a plan that would return Yanukovych to power in Ukraine.
"Kilimnik was designated pursuant to E.O. 13848 for having engaged in foreign interference in the U.S. 2020 presidential election. Kilimnik was also designated pursuant to E.O. 13660 for acting for or on behalf of Yanukovych. Yanukovych, who is currently hiding in exile in Russia, was designated in 2014 pursuant to E.O. 13660 for his role in violating Ukrainian sovereignty."
how come I knew Paul's link was authored by John Solomon before I clicked on it?
I was going to ponder what Taibbi and Greenwald were saying - then I found it.
Here's Taibbi a few hours ago:
To the people salivating over the Kilimnik story — the Biden administration was pushing the Bountygate story just yesterday. How many times are we going to go through the charade of buying an evidenceless official statement on this topic? Kick the football, Charlie Brown!
And Glen's response:
How can people in media who keep doing this not be ashamed by it? I know some of them. I've heard them say years ago that the CIA lies for a living and it's the job a journalist to distrust their claims. Now they tell people to believe CIA claims without evidence, over and over.
jamie said:
I was going to ponder what Taibbi and Greenwald were saying - then I found it.
Here's Taibbi a few hours ago:
To the people salivating over the Kilimnik story — the Biden administration was pushing the Bountygate story just yesterday. How many times are we going to go through the charade of buying an evidenceless official statement on this topic? Kick the football, Charlie Brown!And Glen's response:
How can people in media who keep doing this not be ashamed by it? I know some of them. I've heard them say years ago that the CIA lies for a living and it's the job a journalist to distrust their claims. Now they tell people to believe CIA claims without evidence, over and over.
These guys are still propagandists against Democrats, which means they're propagandists *for* the Trumpists and the GOP regressives.
The odd thing is that apparently the latest revelation is that before we knew Kilimnik passed information on to the Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs for whom he worked now we find out that Kilimnik had also passed along that information to Russian intelligence agencies.
To me this isn't too much of a difference, I mean what do you think the oligarchs are going to do with it?
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Back to reality.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bolivia-election-mexico-minister/mexico-says-bolivia-suffered-coup-due-to-militarys-role-in-events-idUSKBN1XL1S5?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews