The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Listening to voters’ concerns

ml1 said:

drummerboy said:

regarding lying, I happened to come cross this today:

I mean "crazy" in the sense Harry Frankfurt intended. In 2006's On Truth, the moral philosopher described the ethical effect of lies. They are not just deceptions. They are not just duplicity. They are  injuries.  Lies are designed to damage our grasp of reality," he wrote. "So they  are intended, in a very real sense, to make us crazy." But more than  that, they are authoritarian injuries. "The most irreducibly
bad thing about lies is that they contrive to interfere with, and to  impair, our natural effort to apprehend the real state of affairs,"  Frankfurt wrote. "They are designed to prevent us from being in touch  with what is really going on. In telling his lie, the liar tries to  mislead us into believing that the facts are other than they actually  are. He tries to impose his will on us."4

 I  wrote something very similar to this in a comment on an online article (on salon.com I think) around 2003 in reference to the W Bush Admin.  My premise was that the biggest damage they did to the country was in degrading our discourse with lies.  The truth was irrelevant to Bush and team when they wanted to do something like start a war.  Donald Trump's lies didn't spring forth without precedent.  Bush and Rove et. al waged a very calculated war on the truth.  And before anyone says "all politicians lie", there was something very different about the way the Bushies tried to make truth and objective fact irrelevant to our political discussions.  And Trump simply took it to another level once the way had been paved for the right wing base to believe anything they wanted to believe, whether or not it was true or even plausible.

 That's kind of funny, because I used to post on a forum called Extreme Politics (on msn.com) around the same time, and I remember starting a thread called The Art of Lying, the Sin of Believing (or something like that) dealing with the Bushies. So we're definitely on the same page.

But yeah, this bifurcation of reality has been a long time coming.

A view from my favorite Democrat  political wonk..

https://www.fitsnews.com/2021/04/29/james-carville-tells-democrats-excessive-wokeness-is-a-problem/

‘Ragin’ Cajun’ James Carville formally endorses Sen. Michael Bennet for president (WMUR)

mtierney said:

A view from my favorite Democrat  political wonk..

https://www.fitsnews.com/2021/04/29/james-carville-tells-democrats-excessive-wokeness-is-a-problem/

 What parts did you particularly favor from that?

I like the bit where he reminds people that we should call the modern Republican party for what it is: a hotbed of foreign-financed traitors and pedophiles, and that we should continue to say that out loud every day. Ain't nothing "woke" about that. Plain and simple language. Financed by foreign oligarchs, traitors to the country, and riddled with pedophiles - that's the modern Republican party.

mtierney said:

A view from my favorite Democrat  political wonk..

https://www.fitsnews.com/2021/04/29/james-carville-tells-democrats-excessive-wokeness-is-a-problem/

 I don't know how the party ever got by without Carville's brilliant takes like this one:

According to Carville, politically correct phrases like “communities of color” alienate voters of all races …“I don’t know anyone who speaks like that,” Carville said. “I don’t know anyone who lives in a ‘community of color.’ I know lots of white and black and brown people and they all live in … neighborhoods.”

Carville is about 20 years past his sell date.

ridski said:

I like the bit where he reminds people that we should call the modern Republican party for what it is: a hotbed of foreign-financed traitors and pedophiles, and that we should continue to say that out loud every day. Ain't nothing "woke" about that. Plain and simple language. Financed by foreign oligarchs, traitors to the country, and riddled with pedophiles - that's the modern Republican party.

 Anyone who doubts that this is not a party, but a cult, can explain to me why over 2100 Utahn Republicans last night booed Mitt Romney and called him a “traitor” and a “communist” for not kowtowing to Trump.

ridski said:

ridski said:

I like the bit where he reminds people that we should call the modern Republican party for what it is: a hotbed of foreign-financed traitors and pedophiles, and that we should continue to say that out loud every day. Ain't nothing "woke" about that. Plain and simple language. Financed by foreign oligarchs, traitors to the country, and riddled with pedophiles - that's the modern Republican party.

 Anyone who doubts that this is not a party, but a cult, can explain to me why over 2100 Utahn Republicans last night booed Mitt Romney and called him a “traitor” and a “communist” for not kowtowing to Trump.

Hell, they're trying to dump Liz Cheney because she gave Biden a fist bump.

Utah Republican delegates’ vote against censuring Mitt Romney: 798-711.

House Republican vote to keep Liz Cheney the conference chair: 145-61.

DaveSchmidt said:

Utah Republican delegates’ vote against censuring Mitt Romney: 798-711.

House Republican vote to keep Liz Cheney the conference chair: 145-61.

 The House vote was in February.

sure is slow around here.

drummerboy said:

Hell, they're trying to dump Liz Cheney because she gave Biden a fist bump.

 Right?

ridski said:

drummerboy said:

Hell, they're trying to dump Liz Cheney because she gave Biden a fist bump.

 Right?

 yeah, it doesn't matter if there's not yet a majority that will dump Cheney, but the numbers for her ejection are significant. And probably growing.

this is just hilarious

For all the political analysts and number crunchers ...if any are still here, that is.....

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/04/us/census-news-republicans-democrats.html

mtierney said:

...if any are still here, that is....

It’s your thread after all.

If Tom Stiglich had the courage of his convictions, he might have chosen a different suit. He didn’t, which may simply reflect the 1 in 4 odds, or possibly some fiber within him that knows what the deal really is.

drummerboy said:

sure is slow around here.

 There's not much to debate.  The GOP has crossed over to looney land.  They have no agenda.  They are somehow clinging to the Trump doctrine whose leader is completely delusional.

mtierney - just curious.  What voice in the GOP are you most proud of or closely follow?  Besides Trump - who do you see leading the party?

Fair question, Jamie. I will try hard to just pick a few — I’ll edit this thread later on...

here goes— just a few...

Senators:

Tim Scott (who has received shameful taunts by Democrats, calling him “Uncle Tim” —

Marco Rubio

John Kennedy (who has a sense of humor)

Chuck Grassley

Tom Cotton

Lindsey Graham

Representatives:

Steve Scalise

Jim Jordan

David Nunes

Kevin McCarthy

jamie said:

mtierney - just curious.  What voice in the GOP are you most proud of or closely follow?  Besides Trump - who do you see leading the party?

mtierney said:

Fair question, Jamie. I will try hard to just pick a few — I’ll edit this thread later on.

 Yes, there is truly an embarrassment of riches to pick from.

DaveSchmidt said:

mtierney said:

...if any are still here, that is....

It’s your thread after all.

If Tom Stiglich had the courage of his convictions, he might have chosen a different suit. He didn’t, which may simply reflect the 1 in 4 odds, or possibly some fiber within him that knows what the deal really is.

 At least he didn't call them the Democrat Party.

Donald Trump didn't get the memo that we shouldn't talk about him any more.

From the Desk of Donald J. Trump | Donald J. Trump (donaldjtrump.com)

[Edited to add] This just about sums it up, on several levels.

From the Desk of Donald J. Trump: The Fraudulent Presidential Election of 2020 will be, f… | Donald J. Trump (donaldjtrump.com)

Trump seems to be fixated on himself.

mtierney said:

Fair question, Jamie. I will try hard to just pick a few — I’ll edit this thread later on...

here goes— just a few...

Senators:

Tim Scott (who has received shameful taunts by Democrats, calling him “Uncle Tim” —

Marco Rubio

John Kennedy (who has a sense of humor)

Chuck Grassley

Tom Cotton

Lindsey Graham

Representatives:

Steve Scalise

Jim Jordan

David Nunes

Kevin McCarthy

 John Kennedy and your entire cohort of representatives voted to overturn a free and fair election.

https://ballotpedia.org/Counting_of_electoral_votes_(January_6-7,_2021)

You know how I know it was a free and fair election? Newsmax told me so.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/eric-coomer-dominion-voting-systems/2021/04/30/id/1019671/

mtierney said:

Tim Scott (who has received shameful taunts by Democrats, calling him “Uncle Tim” —

Can you name a prominent democrat who has referred to him as this?  Or are you just referring to random twitter users?

jamie said:

mtierney said:

Tim Scott (who has received shameful taunts by Democrats, calling him “Uncle Tim” —

Can you name a prominent democrat who has referred to him as this?  Or are you just referring to random twitter users?

 No, she can't. But that won't effect her belief that it happened.

John Kennedy. Human being or marionette?  You decide. 

The Repubs should start a Clown Caucus, with Kennedy as the head.

mtierney said:

Fair question, Jamie. I will try hard to just pick a few — I’ll edit this thread later on...

here goes— just a few...

Senators:

Tim Scott (who has received shameful taunts by Democrats, calling him “Uncle Tim” —

Marco Rubio

John Kennedy (who has a sense of humor)

Chuck Grassley

Tom Cotton

Lindsey Graham

Representatives:

Steve Scalise

Jim Jordan

David Nunes

Kevin McCarthy

 mt, can you tell when someone is lying?

Kennedy is an oddball.  I can't figure out if he's dumb or if he knowingly tries to dumb things down to connect to his base.  

I wonder what Tim Scott think of this Kennedy remark: