Post Election Hate Crimes

Was this occurring in NYC prior to Trump campaign / election.

A rampaging homeless man chucked hot coffee at a Muslim woman, hit her and accused her of being a “terrorist” in a Midtown Dunkin Donuts Sunday, according to police sources and the store’s employees.
Nathan Gray, 34, told the 21-year-old victim he “hated Muslims” and that he was going to kill her, cops said Sunday. He’s been charged with assault as a hate crime, cops said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan/homeless-man-throws-coffee-muslim-woman-nyc-dunkin-donuts-article-1.2915553

CompassRose said:

Actually I think there might be more than I thought. Here is a short list leaving off major players like Hillary Clinton, Scott Walker, Angela Merkel - those who were able to respond in major media.

Katy Tur, Nicole Wallace, George Will, Juan Williams, Jeff Zeleny, Jeff Zucker, Mort Zuckerman, Paul Begala, Sam Liccardo, Cheri Jacobus, Frank Lutz, Errol Lewis...and more.

Jackson_Fusion said:

CompassRose said:

The same could be said about Mr.Trump. He has made hateful statements and tweeted some not so true things about many people, yet their responses to him seem to elicit crickets in the media.

Gilgul said:

Certainly the refutation is not getting nearly the attention in the media the original story did. Why mess with a good story line after all.

Should be easy to list a bunch. What are you referring to specifically?

You were referring to statements of hate, befitting the theme of the thread. Which are you referring to?

kibbegirl said:

Was this occurring in NYC prior to Trump campaign / election.

A rampaging homeless man chucked hot coffee at a Muslim woman, hit her and accused her of being a “terrorist” in a Midtown Dunkin Donuts Sunday, according to police sources and the store’s employees.
Nathan Gray, 34, told the 21-year-old victim he “hated Muslims” and that he was going to kill her, cops said Sunday. He’s been charged with assault as a hate crime, cops said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan/homeless-man-throws-coffee-muslim-woman-nyc-dunkin-donuts-article-1.2915553

Of course mentally ill homeless people weren't doing mentally ill things for mentally ill reasons prior to Trump's victory.

This man was as recently as Halloween gainfully employed as a unicorn wrangler and ghost buster in Washington Square Park. His tragic fall so fast most clearly was caused by a tweet he saw on his iPhone 7. What can we do?

The article doesn't state what this man does for a living nor his mental health status, but hey, all who commit hate crimes must be mentally ill and not troublemakers full of rage who believe in the era of Trump, they won't get arrested or called out for it? Got it.

kibbegirl said:

The article doesn't state what this man does for a living nor his mental health status, but hey, all who commit hate crimes must be mentally ill and not troublemakers full of rage who believe in the era of Trump, they won't get arrested or called out for it? Got it.

I must apologize. I thought he was a unicorn wrangler. Turns out he was working as a invisible people finding detective.

Being a "rampaging homeless man" you are quite right to suggest that his mental state possibly could only be described as well-centered and fully self actualized, but for Donald J. Trump's birth, candidacy, and election.

When President Obama was elected, there was an obvious spate of racist commentaries made with reference to him. People sent around pictures of the White House in the middle of a watermelon patch; President Obama depicted as a witch doctor with a bone through his nose; etc. There were people (people with good jobs, even elected officials) who thought nothing of sending them to other people, as if it was "socially acceptable". That's a fact, it happened.

Did the election of soon-to-be President Trump give some people the idea that they now have license to publicly act out, what they think in private? I don't think it is unreasonable to think that is the case.

I guess we'll know eventually. Hate crimes are counted by law enforcement. We'll see what the trend is over the next couple of years compared to the last few. We can cite anecdotes as evidence, and others can discount the anecdotes, or we can wait for data.

When an incident is reported and proves to be a false report, as happened in NYC is it properly removed from the hate crime statistic or odes it, like all those news stories remain to create an urban legend. I suspect the latter - that it will be "counted" even though it was a hoax.

Gilgul said:

When an incident is reported and proves to be a false report, as happened in NYC is it properly removed from the hate crime statistic or odes it, like all those news stories remain to create an urban legend. I suspect the latter - that it will be "counted" even though it was a hoax.

in other words, you're not inclined to believe data either. So I guess we should all just agree now that there haven't and won't be any increases in hate crimes post-election. That was easy.

Gilgul said:

When an incident is reported and proves to be a false report, as happened in NYC is it properly removed from the hate crime statistic or odes it, like all those news stories remain to create an urban legend. I suspect the latter - that it will be "counted" even though it was a hoax.

Despite what you suspect, the FBI only counts actual crimes. That's why they are able to identify the false reports. You know, through investigations. It's remarkably similar to how they collect other types of crime data.

Jackson_Fusion said:

CompassRose said:

Actually I think there might be more than I thought. Here is a short list leaving off major players like Hillary Clinton, Scott Walker, Angela Merkel - those who were able to respond in major media.

Katy Tur, Nicole Wallace, George Will, Juan Williams, Jeff Zeleny, Jeff Zucker, Mort Zuckerman, Paul Begala, Sam Liccardo, Cheri Jacobus, Frank Lutz, Errol Lewis...and more.

Jackson_Fusion said:

CompassRose said:

The same could be said about Mr.Trump. He has made hateful statements and tweeted some not so true things about many people, yet their responses to him seem to elicit crickets in the media.

Gilgul said:

Certainly the refutation is not getting nearly the attention in the media the original story did. Why mess with a good story line after all.

Should be easy to list a bunch. What are you referring to specifically?

You were referring to statements of hate, befitting the theme of the thread. Which are you referring to?

In same reference my statement, "tweeted some not so true things" applies to the names listed. I think a person of lower to average intelligence such as myself is safe to assume that a public person with that many followers tweeting untrue comments about me is doing so because they likely hate me.

The sad part is that almost every comment he has made about these people has initiated hateful responses or threats from his followers. He knows this and so do the 290+ people, places, and things he has insulted on twitter. The hate can be directely attributed to one of his negative or untrue comments every time.

JF, you have the wonderful skill of being able to keep a great conversation going without being a complete name calling turd in the process. Mr. Trump does not have this ability. The statements he made about each of these people online were simply to deflect from the fact that he is mentally incapable of listening to, acknowledging, or discussing in a rational manner, the truth and stories of others.

I think it is interesting that when people meet with him face to face, they rarely have anything negative to say about the meeting. Is he not just as rude face to face as his online persona? I suspect the reason is because he is too immature to have a conversation online without controlling the direction of it. The insults are most likely what he believes give him top controlling position in every situation. When he is face to face, his body language and position in the room is probably what he uses to keep his alpha position making the insults less necessary.

Sorry about the long post. I keep telling myself...shorter responses! Then it all goes to crap once I start typing! I need a Twitter character limit on MOL.

CompassRose said:

Sorry about the long post. I keep telling myself...shorter responses! Then it all goes to crap once I start typing! I need a Twitter character limit on MOL.

I edit most of my posts. I edit in my mind while composing, I edit while typing and then after I post I read my own post and edit again, sometimes twice. Try it.

ml1 said:

I guess we'll know eventually. Hate crimes are counted by law enforcement. We'll see what the trend is over the next couple of years compared to the last few. We can cite anecdotes as evidence, and others can discount the anecdotes, or we can wait for data.

Or we can just wait to be the victim of a hate crime.

kibbegirl said:

Was this occurring in NYC prior to Trump campaign / election.

A rampaging homeless man chucked hot coffee at a Muslim woman, hit her and accused her of being a “terrorist” in a Midtown Dunkin Donuts Sunday, according to police sources and the store’s employees.
Nathan Gray, 34, told the 21-year-old victim he “hated Muslims” and that he was going to kill her, cops said Sunday. He’s been charged with assault as a hate crime, cops said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan/homeless-man-throws-coffee-muslim-woman-nyc-dunkin-donuts-article-1.2915553

Jackson_Fusion said:
Of course mentally ill homeless people weren't doing mentally ill things for mentally ill reasons prior to Trump's victory.

This man was as recently as Halloween gainfully employed as a unicorn wrangler and ghost buster in Washington Square Park. His tragic fall so fast most clearly was caused by a tweet he saw on his iPhone 7. What can we do?

Your sarcasm in this discussion makes it appear to me that hate crimes don't trouble you. Or that you think they're funny. Or something else not admirable.

Certainly hate crimes are always occurring. Implicit in kibbegirl's question is whether the incidence has risen recently and if it can be attributed to the political atmosphere around Trump. It's a decent question even if you believe the answer is no. I think it deserves a serious answer or at least a serious attempt.

I don't know if there has been a real measurable increase in hate crimes since Trump's campaign started. But one thing that I think common sense will tell us is that if a man runs a presidential campaign, holds rallies all over the country riling people up to think of specific minorities as the root of his supporters problems, and exploits bigotry to win an election -- I'm pretty sure we're not likely to see a decrease in hate crimes in the near term. Even if all this hatred and propensity to violence pre-dated Trump, he certainly has made no effort to oppose any of it. If anything, he exploited it to become president. So I don't think that's anything for his supporters to feel proud of.

ml1 said:

I don't know if there has been a real measurable increase in hate crimes since Trump's campaign started. But one thing that I think common sense will tell us is that if a man runs a presidential campaign, holds rallies all over the country riling people up to think of specific minorities as the root of his supporters problems, and exploits bigotry to win an election -- I'm pretty sure we're not likely to see a decrease in hate crimes in the near term. Even if all this hatred and propensity to violence pre-dated Trump, he certainly has made no effort to oppose any of it. If anything, he exploited it to become president. So I don't think that's anythi ng for his supporters to feel proud of.

Yes. It's as simple as saying - if you don't want people to associate you with hate crimes, avoid hate speech.

Like Mr. Trump claiming to have seen "thousands of Muslims" in New Jersey celebrating the attack of 9/11/2001. It didn't happen, the statement was a lie, and it inflames hatred of Muslims.

nohero said:

Yes. It's as simple as saying - if you don't want people to associate you with hate crimes, avoid hate speech.

Like Mr. Trump claiming to have seen "thousands of Muslims" in New Jersey celebrating the attack of 9/11/2001. It didn't happen, the statement was a lie, and it inflames hatred of Muslims.

And that's what made Chris Christie's support for him even worse.

Tom_Reingold said:

kibbegirl said:

Was this occurring in NYC prior to Trump campaign / election.

A rampaging homeless man chucked hot coffee at a Muslim woman, hit her and accused her of being a “terrorist” in a Midtown Dunkin Donuts Sunday, according to police sources and the store’s employees.
Nathan Gray, 34, told the 21-year-old victim he “hated Muslims” and that he was going to kill her, cops said Sunday. He’s been charged with assault as a hate crime, cops said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan/homeless-man-throws-coffee-muslim-woman-nyc-dunkin-donuts-article-1.2915553

Jackson_Fusion said:
Of course mentally ill homeless people weren't doing mentally ill things for mentally ill reasons prior to Trump's victory.

This man was as recently as Halloween gainfully employed as a unicorn wrangler and ghost buster in Washington Square Park. His tragic fall so fast most clearly was caused by a tweet he saw on his iPhone 7. What can we do?

Your sarcasm in this discussion makes it appear to me that hate crimes don't trouble you. Or that you think they're funny. Or something else not admirable.

Certainly hate crimes are always occurring. Implicit in kibbegirl's question is whether the incidence has risen recently and if it can be attributed to the political atmosphere around Trump. It's a decent question even if you believe the answer is no. I think it deserves a serious answer or at least a serious attempt.

Well, Tom, that's certainly a vicious sentiment. I've always believed you can learn a lot about people based on how they think of those they disagree with. Given your propensity for being "wrong and strong" on any number of issues, political or otherwise, I am not all that concerned about your read of my character.

If that seems a little high and tight- hey, at least I didn't say you find humans being hurt funny, so count your blessings.

I will point out that you've completely transitioned from Amiable Tommy the Bicycle Guy to something very different. I have as little interest in responding further to the new (perhaps real) guy as I do worry over his opinions of me.

Anyway- Blaming Trump, or Trump voters, for some nut job throwing coffee means Trump opponents likewise own this one. But this one has a body count.

http://ithacavoice.com/2016/12/man-accused-ithaca-homicide-shot-killed-donald-trump-purposely-intentionally-proudly/

Doesn't seem fair to me in either case. But perhaps the rhetoric directed at Trump made him do it. Or made him feel like people would view him as a hero, or that he was saving America.

Anyone (reasonable) agree? Anyone think sarcasm, or even scorn, directed at such a notion is unreasonable?

Didn't think so.

ETA: Compass! Thanks, I think? Kidding, I get and truly appreciate the sentiment.

Clearly, I've read you wrong, and I apologize. Can you please clarify your comment to kibbegirl? What do you feel about hate crimes in general and their trend?

Tom_Reingold said:

Clearly, I've read you wrong, and I apologize. Can you please clarify your comment to kibbegirl? What do you feel about hate crimes in general and their trend?

I don't disagree with Tom's statement regarding the poster's cavalier attitude toward these crimes and how he/she believes they simply cannot be related to Trump. And in fairness, some have been debunked, which I believe was the crux of the posters ire, but not all have been debunked because they're true incidents.

With that said, no need to clarify. I understand the sentiments and care not to delve into the back and forth anymore. The poster believes what he/she believes and I have a different belief. Let's hope we are all safe during these sure to be tumultuous 4 years and that we're not wearing, speaking or engaging in a manner which may draw the ire of some who Want to Make America Great Again.

Two more widely reported incidents now shown to be hoaxes or scams.

That black church burned and the words "Vote Trump" painted on the walls? A member of the church has been arrested for the arson. http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/arrest-vote-trump-burning-mississippi-black-church-44330731

The person in Ann Arbor who said people threatened to burn her hijab? Story was totally made up. http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/12/21/cops-u-m-student-lied-man-threatening-burn-hjiab/95704464/

I wonder why people are making these stories up.

Fox News lists 7 such hoaxes. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/12/21/growing-list-post-election-hate-crimes-turn-out-to-be-hoaxes.html

I don't know how many such incidents have been reported overall. As I wrote earlier, we'll know over time when we look at actual statistics instead of relying on anecdotes. Right now, anyone can use isolated incidents to come to their own pre-determined conclusions.

Tom_Reingold said:

I wonder why people are making these stories up.

There will always be people who make stories up, whether for attention or because they think they're "making a point". Ashley Todd, anyone?

We can respond in one of two ways:

(1) Always, always keep checking the facts, and supporting the investigation of the claims (the reasonable discussion approach).

(2) Assume the fake stories delegitimize every other claim (What appears to be the "Zoinks/Gilgul" approach).

nohero said:


(2) Assume the fake stories delegitimize every other claim (What appears to be the "Zoinks/Gilgul" approach).

In today's post-fact world, anyone who has ever been wrong, even once, is entirely untrustworthy. This includes the entire body of scientists throughout history. So that leaves absolutely no one to be trusted. How can a person assert anything in that context?

nohero said:


(2) Assume the fake stories delegitimize every other claim (What appears to be the "Zoinks/Gilgul" approach).

this is the same person who jumped to the conclusion that every instance of a cop being targeted was the fault of BLM and Obama.

We Have a problem with hate crimes!

..............Um, but many of the high profile reports have been shown to be hoaxes.

Don't bother us with facts! We have a problem with hate crimes!

Gilgul said:

We Have a problem with hate crimes!

..............Um, but many of the high profile reports have been shown to be hoaxes.

Don't bother us with facts! We have a problem with hate crimes!

Really? How many. I remember seeing two. Do you have links showing the many?

Gilgul said:

We Have a problem with hate crimes!

..............Um, but many of the high profile reports have been shown to be hoaxes.

Don't bother us with facts! We have a problem with hate crimes!

that's the exact opposite of what I wrote, which was that we should wait until we have stats instead of anecdotes.

http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/311500-ivanka-trump-children-harassed-on-jetblue-flight-report