Phil Murphy?
FilmCarp said:
Thats an interesting read. What does he need to actually get some of that done? He's a union man, but I don't think his hybrid pension idea would go over well.
Sweeney's "Path to Progress" has several prominent cosponsors on both sides of the aisle, many prominent budget experts, and some several editorial boards, but I don't think any major portion of it has gotten through committee yet.
Sweeney is doing a town hall next week at Rowan with Louis Greenwald. Presumably it's the kickoff of an effort to rally support around the Path to Progress ideas. Hopefully Sweeney will come to North Jersey soon.
That Steve Sweeney is a bona fide blue collar worker and union man is part of what makes this battle so interesting because it exposes that private sector unions and public sector unions are completely different animals that just happen to be called "unions."
Sweeney's more of a union man than Murphy ever will be. He's more of a public school parent than Murphy will ever be. Sweeney's own son is actually a public school teacher.
That the NJEA and NJEA-funded organizations are Murphy's biggest supporters just shows you how little "union solidarity" counts when there are differences of political opinion.
Runner_Guy said:That the NJEA and NJEA-funded organizations are Murphy's biggest supporters just shows you how little "union solidarity" counts when there are differences of political opinion.
If you’ve seen the idea of union solidarity applied to politics — for instance, as a synonym for union endorsements of legislation or candidates — I’d submit that the term was misused. It’s about job actions, not public policy positions.
I’d be happy to put the Provincial President of Terni up in one of my guest rooms for 11 days. You know, show him around. Take him to Applebees. Maybe a Devils game.
Runner_Guy said:
I'm not denying there's no personal bitterness, but the differences between Sweeney and Murphy are that Sweeney has been around longer than Murphy, plans to be around NJ longer, understands the state budget better, and understands things like state aid better.
Seems to me that the relevant difference is that Murphy was elected by the people of NJ and Sweeney wasn't.
Klinker said:Seems to me that the relevant difference is that Murphy was elected by the people of NJ and Sweeney wasn't.
What would your response be if someone told you that the relevant difference between Trump and Pelosi is that Trump was elected by the people of the U.S.?
DaveSchmidt said:
Klinker said:What would your response be if someone told you that the relevant difference between Trump and Pelosi is that Trump was elected by the people of the U.S.?
Seems to me that the relevant difference is that Murphy was elected by the people of NJ and Sweeney wasn't.
Well, I would probably start by pointing out that he wasn't (EC vs popular vote). To some extent, though, I think we are talking about apples and oranges since Murphy and Sweeney are both Dems.
If I could vote for someone to replace Sweeney, I would. I certainly have told my representatives repeatedly that I would love to see him gone. The man represents himself first and foremost, the people of our state come in a distant second if the register at all.
Klinker said:Well, I would probably start by pointing out that he wasn't (EC vs popular vote).
I anticipated that answer, but decided that “elected by the people,” and whether or not the Electoral College covered it, wasn’t worth quibbling over.
Thanks for the reply.
Klinker said:
DaveSchmidt said:Well, I would probably start by pointing out that he wasn't (EC vs popular vote). To some extent, though, I think we are talking about apples and oranges since Murphy and Sweeney are both Dems.
Klinker said:What would your response be if someone told you that the relevant difference between Trump and Pelosi is that Trump was elected by the people of the U.S.?
Seems to me that the relevant difference is that Murphy was elected by the people of NJ and Sweeney wasn't.
If I could vote for someone to replace Sweeney, I would. I certainly have told my representatives repeatedly that I would love to see him gone. The man represents himself first and foremost, the people of our state come in a distant second if the register at all.
Sweeney is a prime example of the stereotypical NJ party boss that has way too much power.
Phil Murphy has no clue what he is doing (politically speaking). Sweeney must be loving it.
Klinker said:
Runner_Guy said:Seems to me that the relevant difference is that Murphy was elected by the people of NJ and Sweeney wasn't.
I'm not denying there's no personal bitterness, but the differences between Sweeney and Murphy are that Sweeney has been around longer than Murphy, plans to be around NJ longer, understands the state budget better, and understands things like state aid better.
This is the worst defense of Phil Murphy I've seen.
Sweeney wasn't elected "by the people" because New Jersey doesn't elect its legislative leaders directly. However, he is a lot closer to the median voter in New Jersey than Murphy is because he purports to care about taxes, which Murphy doesn't.
The 2017 election in New Jersey was one where winning the Democratic nominee was tantamount to winning the general election. Phil Murphy had a state-level platform, but he also repeatedly campaigned on "sending a message to Trump" and tied Kim Guadagno to the xenophobia of Trump and the bullying of Christie, even though Guadagno had never said anything xenophobic in her public life and did not have Christie's persona. So it was an election strategy that featured a lot of negative campaigning and in which the Republican nominee was conflated with people she was not like.
Hence, even though the New Jersey public repeatedly says that its biggest concern is property taxes, elected someone who didn't purport to want to lower property taxes.
If New Jersey didn't have a strict two-party system, I don't think someone as far from the center as Murphy (or Christie in 2009) would become the chief executive.
Also, the idea of government is that elected officials do what is right for the state in the long term.
Steve Sweeney points out that in only 5-6 years that debt payments will consume over a quarter of the state's budget. By recognizing that and trying to address it in a viable way, he is putting forward a plan for the future which Murphy isn't.
Runner_Guy said:
Klinker said:This is the worst defense of Phil Murphy I've seen.
Runner_Guy said:Seems to me that the relevant difference is that Murphy was elected by the people of NJ and Sweeney wasn't.
I'm not denying there's no personal bitterness, but the differences between Sweeney and Murphy are that Sweeney has been around longer than Murphy, plans to be around NJ longer, understands the state budget better, and understands things like state aid better.
It wasn't so much a defense of Phil Murphy as a slam on Sweeney, DiVincenzo and every other quasi elected official that has perpetuated the truism that NJ politics are an archetype of cronyism, back room dealing and corruption.
Seriously, I have lived in several states and while all of them have had Governors of various stripes, I have never lived in a place where legislative, county and precinct politics were as utterly FUBAR as they are here in NJ.
Not really. We have three coequal branches of government. Of course, when you read what the Founding Fathers believed should be the role of the House and Senate, you realize that the Legislative Branch should recover some powers ceded to the Executive.
https://www.scholastic.com/teachers/articles/teaching-content/three-branches-separate-equal/
I'm talking about internal party politics. I have no problem with the mechanics of Constitutional Government.
Klinker said:
Runner_Guy said:It wasn't so much a defense of Phil Murphy as a slam on Sweeney, DiVincenzo and every other quasi elected official that has perpetuated the truism that NJ politics are an archetype of cronyism, back room dealing and corruption.
Klinker said:This is the worst defense of Phil Murphy I've seen.
Runner_Guy said:Seems to me that the relevant difference is that Murphy was elected by the people of NJ and Sweeney wasn't.
I'm not denying there's no personal bitterness, but the differences between Sweeney and Murphy are that Sweeney has been around longer than Murphy, plans to be around NJ longer, understands the state budget better, and understands things like state aid better.
Seriously, I have lived in several states and while all of them have had Governors of various stripes, I have never lived in a place where legislative, county and precinct politics were as utterly FUBAR as they are here in NJ.
You should try living in Alabama for a while (says this 'Bama escapee....).
weirdbeard said:You should try living in Alabama for a while (says this 'Bama escapee....).
Reminds me of the old joke about how, in Hell, you get to choose between the rabid dog and the razor blade.
Klinker said:Seriously, I have lived in several states and while all of them have had Governors of various stripes, I have never lived in a place where legislative, county and precinct politics were as utterly FUBAR as they are here in NJ.
Have you read anything about the New York Legislature?
What % of former Illinois Governors have gone to prison?
Answer:
weirdbeard said:
Klinker said:You should try living in Alabama for a while (says this 'Bama escapee....).
Runner_Guy said:It wasn't so much a defense of Phil Murphy as a slam on Sweeney, DiVincenzo and every other quasi elected official that has perpetuated the truism that NJ politics are an archetype of cronyism, back room dealing and corruption.
Klinker said:This is the worst defense of Phil Murphy I've seen.
Runner_Guy said:Seems to me that the relevant difference is that Murphy was elected by the people of NJ and Sweeney wasn't.
I'm not denying there's no personal bitterness, but the differences between Sweeney and Murphy are that Sweeney has been around longer than Murphy, plans to be around NJ longer, understands the state budget better, and understands things like state aid better.
Seriously, I have lived in several states and while all of them have had Governors of various stripes, I have never lived in a place where legislative, county and precinct politics were as utterly FUBAR as they are here in NJ.
( : a lot more New Jerseyans move to Alabama than vice versa, so you are a part of a very select group.
According to the US Census for 2016 to 2017, 1,103 New Jerseyans went to The Cotton State, versus only 169 Alabamans who moved up here.
Runner_Guy said:
( : a lot more New Jerseyans move to Alabama than vice versa, so you are a part of a very select group.
According to the US Census for 2016 to 2017, 1,103 New Jerseyans went to The Cotton State, versus only 169 Alabamans who moved up here.
There was no census in 2016 or 2017. Still, those are some very specific numbers. What’s the source again?
ETA: Oh, I see. The link. They’re estimates based on the American Community Survey.
ETA2: Another estimate: There are twice as many New Jerseyans as there are Alabamans. This doesn’t come close to making up for the gap, but it’s probably worth bearing in mind.
Then again, about that gap: The margin of error* for the 169 N.J.-bound Alabamans is plus or minus 205 (so maybe there were as many as 374, or maybe 36 went just so they could bring home an equal number of Garden Staters). The margin of error for the 1,103 Alabama-bound New Jerseyans is plus or minus 822 (so there may have been anywhere between 281 and 1,925).
*And there’s a calculated one-in-10 chance that even these ranges aren’t accurate.
Good news. We appear to be raking them in from Alaska. An estimated 610 incoming versus 485 tundra-going.
You may think Steve Sweeney is a party boss with no interests other than his own (my view is he is better than that but worse than I would like). But the reality is that he controls one of the two legislative houses and has a strong handle on NJ issues. Party affiliation be damned--Murphy has needed to work with Sweeney from day T minus 100.
Instead, Murphy got as close as possible to the one union that was financing a GOP run against Sweeney. From that moment on, Murphy's governorship was DOA as far as the State Senate was concerned. It was a stupid move on Murphy's part and the first, but not last, piece of evidence that he is not a seasoned politician in the least. It did not help that Murphy also bought the nomination out from under Sweeney, who was forced to withdraw very early on.
It is one thing to buy a nomination from corrupt county party bosses. It is quite another to have the savvy, guile, and facile hypocrisy to actually govern any state, let alone one as prone to internal squabbles as New Jersey. Perhaps if Murphy had a magnetic personality that could motivate the hearts of voters he could take on Sweeney like he has tried. Or perhaps if he had a really solid core base somewhere in the state. But he has neither, and Sweeney will act like the de facto governor for the rest of Murphy's term.
I assume Sweeney will primary Murphy in 2021. I further assume that Murphy will get little to none of his agenda passed other than what Sweeney wants, and Murphy will wind up looking weak and ineffective, opening the door for Ciatarelli or Singh to win it back for the GOP.
Runner_Guy said:( : a lot more New Jerseyans move to Alabama than vice versa, so you are a part of a very select group.
According to the US Census for 2016 to 2017, 1,103 New Jerseyans went to The Cotton State, versus only 169 Alabamans who moved up here.
The folks are going to Alabama to die while the Alabamans coming to NJ are coming to live. Also, how long do the movers stay in the new state?
They probably came here to go to new Action Park, aka Mountain Creek Resort.
mfpark said:
I further assume that Murphy will get little to none of his agenda passed other than what Sweeney wants, and Murphy will wind up looking weak and ineffective, opening the door for Ciatarelli or Singh to win it back for the GOP.
So, that's what we fought to regain the state house for? Just so a bunch of Dems could block each other and get absolutely nothing done? Sweeney needs to either put his hurt feelies aside or step down.
Of course, neither of those things are going to happen but if we can't even muster outrage at this human pimple, then we are getting the government we deserve.
Steve said:
The folks are going to Alabama to die while the Alabamans coming to NJ are coming to live. Also, how long do the movers stay in the new state?
If you die in Alabama and go to Hell is that considered a lateral move?
I got a chuckle out of Phil's media opp at the diner earlier this week, when the owner unexpectedly threw shade on the plan to increase the minimum wage to $15.
Phil's Utopia bumping up against the real world.
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Thats an interesting read. What does he need to actually get some of that done? He's a union man, but I don't think his hybrid pension idea would go over well.