Marvin Gaye asked "What's Going On?" and so should we

Woot said:

bramzzoinks said:

It is the left that has made the job of being a police officer one that only the unstable would want.

Or, it's a rare unintelligent poster who obsesses over left and right political issues whenever anything happens in the US.   Please put your tinfoil helmet back on and crawl back into your closet for a couple more days.  

Pretty much everything bad happeniing in the U S today is because politics has coalesced to where noisy left and right doctrinairs are controlling all political discourse.  But on this one it is the left that is leading us to anarchy. 

You really are  parody of yourself, Bramz.  You give a bipartisan nod to the idea that political discourse has been brought down by doctrinaire noisiness but then you can't help throwing in one of your patented one sentence doctrinaire bumper sticker thought bombs.  By the way, I don't think you ever answered my question about who exactly the left is -  Che Guevera?  the New York Times? liberals on MOL? Everyone who disagrees with you on a particular issue?  Also, how could "the Left"  be leading us to anarchy when I thought, per your earlier simplistic slogans, that the Left "hates freedom" etc.  Aren't they leading us to a non free socialist state?

I'm not a leftist and would like to see conservative as well as liberal (and independent, original) positions on particular issues be presented in a thoughtful persuasive way.  But boy oh boy are you not the guy to carry the conservative flag.

See Zimbabwe and Venezuela as examples how leftist attempts to control discourse and the economy actually leads to anarchy.

And it absolutely can happen here. 

Yes, that can happen here as can militant nationalistic/repressive religion driven craziness too. What's the point though?  Is anyone on MOL arguing for a Venezuela type government?  Has anyone in the context of this discussion of the recent shootings pined for a Mugabe type strongman to take over the country?  It's like you have political Tourrette's syndrome.  People are discussing something specific and you have to blurt out some all purpose "the Left" thought every hour or so.  

Both came to power in democratic elections.  It was only slowly over time that their ideology and policy wrecked what had been prosperous countries. 

Sanders had been very supportive of Chaves. And years ago when I was already critical of Chaves here on MOL many were quick to come to his defense and say how great what he was doing was. 

bramzzoinks said:

Both came to power in democratic elections.  It was only slowly over time that their ideology and policy wrecked what had been prosperous countries. 

Sanders had been very supportive of Chaves. 

But he's not going to be president, so who cares? Trump is very supportive of Saddam Hussein, and there's a better chance he'll win.

bramzzoinks said:

Woot said:

bramzzoinks said:

It is the left that has made the job of being a police officer one that only the unstable would want.

Or, it's a rare unintelligent poster who obsesses over left and right political issues whenever anything happens in the US.   Please put your tinfoil helmet back on and crawl back into your closet for a couple more days.  

Pretty much everything bad happeniing in the U S today is because politics has coalesced to where noisy left and right doctrinairs are controlling all political discourse.  But on this one it is the left that is leading us to anarchy. 

It's politics, man. Politics!

Sanders lost but Trump, lapdog to the likes of Putin and Saddam flirter with white supremacy promoter of torture and the killing of terrorist's families, won big.  So again, what's your point?

My impression is that, today, the largest scariest fringe element in American politics is on the right as exemplified, in part, by Trump.  There are at least tens of thousands of extreme right wing anti government militia members in the United States today.  Part of their mythology is that one day the people will rise up and take back the government.  

Are there tens of thousands of armed left wing would be revolutionaries in the United States today?  I think not.  

Trump is going to lose too.  But Sanders long term impact on the Democrats is going to be far greater than Trump's on the Republicans who will sweep him away as soon as possible. 

I assume Trump will lose but what makes you think the current angry populist Republican base is not going to thrust up another Trump or someone worse the next time?  What's your thinking on that?

I will bet the rules next time will make that impossible.  Just as after issues in the 70s the Democrats went to super delegates to prevent the likes of Sanders from getting the nomination. 

bramzzoinks said:

I will bet the rules next time will make that impossible.  Just as after issues in the 70s the Democrats went to super delegates to prevent the likes of Sanders from getting the nomination. 

The rules are nice, but if either party ever decides to override a decisive primary vote, it won't play well with the voters.

bramzzoinks said:

It is the left that has made the job of being a police officer one that only the unstable would want.

Just to go back to this comment, a couple of thoughts.

1.  I have a couple of relatives in law enforcement.  My adult children have friends pursuing careers in law enforcement.  Not one of those individuals could or should be labeled "unstable" by someone who thinks he's making a point.  I take a dim view of someone who flings that type of insult against dedicated people who serve in law enforcement.

2.  Blaming "the left" because law enforcement is a dangerous profession is a stupid and fact-challenged claim.  Just last year, Dallas police had to deal with a (white) nutcase who shot at a police station from an armored van with explosives inside.  Two years ago a white supremacist couple murdered two police officers while the officers were eating lunch, and then they killed other people.  The male in that couple had spent some time with the Bundy Ranch "protestors" (as in, white guys threatening to shoot law enforcement personnel).  Details if you care -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_attack_on_Dallas_police

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Las_Vegas_shootings

The statements and others on this topic by Mr. Bramzzoinks are positively Trump-like - not only not based on facts, but actually contrary to the facts.  And, such factually deficient claims are mostly directed to non-conservative and non-white targets.  Yes, definitely inspired by Trumpism.

bramzzoinks said:

I will bet the rules next time will make that impossible.  Just as after issues in the 70s the Democrats went to super delegates to prevent the likes of Sanders from getting the nomination. 

Your crazy Republican/Conservative AM radio listening, all liberal hating, xenophobic, racist, white male voters were fairly decisive that you want Trump as your candidate.  Enjoy him while he lasts.  But don't worry, there will be another racist 4 years from now.  

.

Until you go through a piece of black truth, then you may be able to understand. Not sympathize. Just understand:

• When living in Bklyn and NJ, my husband and I have been stopped numerous times on GSP, in the city and on 280. At the time, we drove Range Rovers. We were stopped but NEVER ticketed because we had done nothing wrong. We were told we were stopped because one of us had "swerved a bit" or "changed lanes w/out signaling." Both untrue. If we had done that, we should have been ticketed. We just happened to be driving vehicles that gave others the right to judge. 

• Last Christmas, I was in Bloomingdale's looking for a particular bracelet as a gift. I stood there, along with an older white gentleman while waiting for service. I was there first. Finally when a sales person approached us from behind the counter, she spoke to him first. He said that I was there first and he was in no rush. The saleswoman looked at me and asked, "Do you mind?" Before I could give her my answer, the older gentleman said, "Maybe she wouldn't but she should."

• I can't remember the restaurant but about 2 years ago, a group of us were out. We were a mixed crowd but mainly brown. We were in the city. When the bill arrived some give it the once over and noticed that a gratuity had already been added to our check. This isn't the policy. When questioned, they quickly took it off and we added our own generous tip. One of the waiters we had that night was so awesome and my husband and a friend wanted to give him something extra in his hand. He thanked them and said something like, "They add their own tip to black people and tourists because they think they won't be tipped well. You guys caught it."

Purity, on both the left and right, feels good but isn't really practical beyond that.

kibbegirl, one of the best lessons my students ever learned (while reading Auto. of Malcolm X) was the testimony of a 70-year-old PhD. Af. Am. colleague who recounted her experiences at Short Hills Mall. Kids were mindfcuked that an elderly woman they all knew was still suspect.

#BlackLivesMatter 

Period.   

Heres another man gunned down in Texas...  can't wait to see the police lies about their missing videos. note that the video is a cell phone video of the gas station surveillance - lets see if that is also confiscated and lost somehow.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/07/10/3796941/alva-braziel/

To state the obvious, cell phone cameras seem to have opened lots of peoples' eyes. 

"In the future, everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes" or, to paraphrase Warhol, some will be infamous for 15 minutes.

It becomes problematic when only part of the interaction with police is caught on film.  What happened in Minnesota before the police officer shot Philando Castile?

Are recipients of carry permits trained in how to respond to police during traffic stops?

Was the officer trained in how to respond to motorists that state that they have a carry permit and have a gun?

I have heard of plenty of other interactions of this variety where there were not any problems.

tjohn said:

It becomes problematic when only part of the interaction with police is caught on film.  What happened in Minnesota before the police officer shot Philando Castile?

Are recipients of carry permits trained in how to respond to police during traffic stops?

Was the officer trained in how to respond to motorists that state that they have a carry permit and have a gun?

I have heard of plenty of other interactions of this variety where there were not any problems.

I thought about this. How does law enforcement even know that the guns people have are indeed licensed? And let's be honest: white gun owners with licenses to carry are again treated differently than black gun owners with license to carry.

What should've happened since citizens are allowed to be licensed to carry is that the officer should have reached for Mr. Castile's gun and license on his own, having his gun trained on Mr. Castile, since he was too afraid that Mr. Castile, after announcing he had a gun on his person, would use it against him. SMH. 

kibbegirl said:

tjohn said:

It becomes problematic when only part of the interaction with police is caught on film.  What happened in Minnesota before the police officer shot Philando Castile?

Are recipients of carry permits trained in how to respond to police during traffic stops?

Was the officer trained in how to respond to motorists that state that they have a carry permit and have a gun?

I have heard of plenty of other interactions of this variety where there were not any problems.

I thought about this. How does law enforcement even know that the guns people have are indeed licensed? And let's be honest: white gun owners with licenses to carry are again treated differently than black gun owners with license to carry.

What should've happened since citizens are allowed to be licensed to carry is that the officer should have reached for Mr. Castile's gun and license on his own, having his gun trained on Mr. Castile, since he was too afraid that Mr. Castile, after announcing he had a gun on his person, would use it against him. SMH. 

I don't know what the detailed procedures are in the case of an armed person.  Often I wonder why the police officer doesn't take a step back and call for back up if he/she feels that there is a threat.

and Philando Castile is still dead.  questions like "I wonder what happened before the video started", are as useless as the cameras the cops wear, that get summarily removed or disappeared or mysteriously have technical issues.

the only way to stop these incidents of murder by cop, is to indict and convict said murderer.  once these incidents are treated as the crimes that they are, and the justice system treats the shooters as the criminals they are, these incidents will cease.

hoops said:

and Philando Castile is still dead.  questions like "I wonder what happened before the video started", are as useless as the cameras the cops wear, that get summarily removed or disappeared or mysteriously have technical issues.

the only way to stop these incidents of murder by cop, is to indict and convict said murderer.  once these incidents are treated as the crimes that they are, and the justice system treats the shooters as the criminals they are, these incidents will cease.

Accountability is just one component, but by the time you get to accountability, somebody is already dead or injured.  Working to manage the beginnings of the police-citizen encounter is where you can do the most good.  

Better training in these types of encounters. Of course, in our shoot-em-up cowboy country, more than better training is necessary b/c of gun laws. More training and better officer candidates require more money. Well worth the investment.

There you go again.

This is about a lot of things. Money is not one one of them.

But statists never miss a beat in trying to spend more of our money.

bramzzoinks said:

This is about a lot of things. Money is not one one of them.

Please try not to be a jerk 100% of the time.  We have already seen that the Dallas PD has made some changes that improved community-police interactions over the last couple of years.  The next question an adult might now ask is how much did it cost to implement those changes.

 Being a jerk is using every excuse to get government to take and spend more money.

Quality reengineering usually saves money. Except in government. Where they spend money but usually do not even get quality.