Biden's VP Pick
What is Plan B?
The worst thing the Democratic Party could do at the present time would be to replace Biden. It will make the Party look week and disorganized. It will antagonize Biden supporters. The replacement, having not won the primaries, or perhaps any primary would start under a cloud. Further it would only be a few weeks at most before "allegations" of one sort or another surfaced against that person.
I will never know what happened, if anything, between Biden and Reade but this one thing I do know
Donald Trump is the scum of the Earth.
STANV said:
Donald Trump is the scum of the Earth.
Right. Might be a good idea to find a candidate who can beat him.
Klinker said:
Seems like maybe the DNC ought to be considering bigger issues than who GUG Biden chooses for a running mate.
It's not a very convincing column, for someone who wasn't looking for an excuse to sihtcan Biden already.
[Edited to add] Along those lines - In the face of new allegations, a majority of staffers at The Intercept and Jacobin and members of the Bruenig household say Democrats should choose another nominee.
nohero said:
It's not a very convincing column, for someone who wasn't looking for an excuse to sihtcan Biden already.
[Edited to add] Along those lines -
To be fair, you aren't going to find any column that isn't pro Biden convincing.
You seem determined to go down with the ship.
Klinker said:
Right. Might be a good idea to find a candidate who can beat him.
Like who?
STANV said:
Ms. Reade said she made a written complaint. Biden says if she did it would be in the Archives or with the Secretary of the Senate. Either there is a complaint or there isn't one. If there is one let's see what it says.
That's exactly right. Tara Reade deserves to be treated with respect, but also with a critical eye to see if what she is saying is consistent and is holding up. Nothing more, nothing less. Republicans will run with this in the GE, but they would claim dirt on Jesus Christ if he were running, so we can't be afraid of that.
Klinker said:
nohero said:
It's not a very convincing column, for someone who wasn't looking for an excuse to sihtcan Biden already.
[Edited to add] Along those lines -
To be fair, you aren't going to find any column that isn't pro Biden convincing.
You seem determined to go down with the ship.
The argument in the column is that, because the allegation was made, and since Biden's "selling point" is his electability, then it might not go away and the Democrats should consider another candidate.
I don't think that's a good argument. I can't think of a good argument in favor of it being a good argument.
Biden is fundamentally unelectable. This latest snafu is just piling on. He surrenders every point of attack to Trump. Corruption, abuse, lying, Biden is vulnerable on all of them. This is what Republicans do, they attack on their own weaknesses and, in Biden, Trump has found the perfect mark.
Klinker said:
Biden is fundamentally unelectable. This latest snafu is just piling on. He surrenders every point of attack to Trump. Corruption, abuse, lying, Biden is vulnerable on all of them. This is what Republicans do, they attack on their own weaknesses and, in Biden, Trump has found the perfect mark.
I don't think "snafu" is the right word to choose. And I guess you're not defending the opinion piece any more, since you've moved on.
It would take only a little imagination to come up with the line of attack against any other Democratic Candidate.
To defeat Trump we must support Biden. It's not that difficult. Until Trump no one has ever accused Biden of corruption. No one can credibly claim that he lacks experience.
Klinker said:
He surrenders every point of attack to Trump.
Just like Kerry surrendered the issue of avoidance of military service to Bush.
Klinker said:
Biden is fundamentally unelectable. This latest snafu is just piling on. He surrenders every point of attack to Trump. Corruption, abuse, lying, Biden is vulnerable on all of them. This is what Republicans do, they attack on their own weaknesses and, in Biden, Trump has found the perfect mark.
sometimes you don't really get it. this is one of those times. They don't attack on their own weaknesses. They attack the strengths of the other candidate. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It worked on Gore. Worked on Kerry. Not on Obama. And it worked on Hillary (though it took them 20 years of doing it.)
Klinker said:
Biden is fundamentally unelectable. This latest snafu is just piling on. He surrenders every point of attack to Trump. Corruption, abuse, lying, Biden is vulnerable on all of them. This is what Republicans do, they attack on their own weaknesses and, in Biden, Trump has found the perfect mark.
For the next 6 months, can we just focus on getting these despicable people out of the White House and Senate (and whatever other electable positions they hold)? I promise you we can start finger-pointing and infighting again after November 3.
basil said:
For the next 6 months, can we just focus on getting these despicable people out of the White House and Senate (and whatever other electable positions they hold)? I promise you we can start finger-pointing and infighting again after November 3.
What the hell do you think I am focussing on?????
You and your fellow Biden zombies are the ones trying to drive us off the cliff of defeat. There is still time to save this country but every second we spend continuing to prop up this disaster of a candidate is a second lost in the fight to defeat Trump.
If a Democrat beats Trump in November there will be no need for finger pointing.
Klinker said:
basil said:
For the next 6 months, can we just focus on getting these despicable people out of the White House and Senate (and whatever other electable positions they hold)? I promise you we can start finger-pointing and infighting again after November 3.
What the hell do you think I am focussing on?????
You and your fellow Biden zombies are the ones trying to drive us off the cliff of defeat. There is still time to save this country but every second we spend continuing to prop up this disaster of a candidate is a second lost in the fight to defeat Trump.
If a Democrat beats Trump in November there will be no need for finger pointing.
I don't understand how you can be so sure about this. I don't think anyone here is a Biden zombie, but you may be an anti-Biden zombie. The argument can be made that you are helping Trump.
Klinker said:
What the hell do you think I am focussing on?????
You and your fellow Biden zombies are the ones trying to drive us off the cliff of defeat. There is still time to save this country but every second we spend continuing to prop up this disaster of a candidate is a second lost in the fight to defeat Trump.
If a Democrat beats Trump in November there will be no need for finger pointing.
Biden won the primaries for democratic presidential candidate. I don't know what kind of stunt you are thinking of, but you better stop.
Klinker said:
What the hell do you think I am focussing on?????
You and your fellow Biden zombies are the ones trying to drive us off the cliff of defeat. There is still time to save this country but every second we spend continuing to prop up this disaster of a candidate is a second lost in the fight to defeat Trump.
If a Democrat beats Trump in November there will be no need for finger pointing.
Here's how I see it. If there is anything there, I would bet that President Obama will ask privately for Biden to step aside. I would imagine that they have already had a conversation about the credibility of the allegation.
If that occurs the Democratic convention will be responsible for picking a viable candidate. I would imagine it would be impossible to organize an emergency primary, particularly with the complications of COVID 19. And I'm pretty sure everyone on these threads will nominate their favorite.
If there is nothing, than we will all have to put this current distraction aside and get on with debating who the VP pick will be, keeping in mind that if Biden is elected and anything surfaces at a later date, the VP, will become President. (I'm thinking President Warren)
I hope that sounds reasonable and we can all look forward to defeating Trump by uniting and turning out voters. For the moment it's all we have.
I really can't imagine how the DNC just choosing someone would work out. Should they choose Sanders, as he had the second-most votes? That doesn't make sense because, well, he had the second-most votes -- the primary voters had a chance to give him the most votes and they clearly rejected that. So to give it to Sanders would mean going directly against the decision of the primary voters.
Should they choose the candidate who most-closely matches Biden? That would be in line with what voters actually expressed in the primary, except that this ignores the fact that Sanders won the second-highest number of votes. Plus, who would be the candidate who most-closely matches Biden? If there had been consensus around that during the primaries, that person would have won and there would have been no surge for Biden after SC, and no clearing of the field after his surge. The primaries told us that 1) most Democrats did not want Sanders and 2) of those who did not want Sanders, they could not agree on anyone besides Biden.
There's no way the DNC can just choose someone without violating the expressed will of the Democratic voters, and if they do that, it's hard to see how the Democratic candidate goes forward without substantial damage and a correspondingly high risk of losing in November.
No, the only way forward now is with Biden. Finding how to go forward in a way that maximizes the chance of Democratic victory without compromising Democratic values is the challenge we face, but one that will have to be done with Biden as the nominee.
"Let's support the guy who won the nomination" isn't the same as being a "Biden zombie".
If, heaven forfend, Biden fell terminally ill tomorrow, what is the Party's plan? Are there no contingency plans or Party rules for what happens if a designated nominee will not or cannot run in the General Election?
ridski said:
If, heaven forfend, Biden fell terminally ill tomorrow, what is the Party's plan? Are there no contingency plans or Party rules for what happens if a designated nominee will not or cannot run in the General Election?
538 did an article on this. My take is that even when there are plans, it makes a huge mess. On if the candidate can't continue, before the convention:
In the case of the Democratric nomination, that would all of a sudden open up the race, according to Lara Brown, director of the Graduate School of Political Management at George Washington University. The delayed primaries would become far more relevant, and this could create a free-for-all with Sen. Bernie Sanders and the other candidates. “Let’s face it, none of the candidates have officially withdrawn,” said Brown. “They’ve all just suspended [their campaigns].”
But if tragedy didn’t strike until the convention, Biden delegates would have to choose someone else to support.due to state laws that bind them on the first and sometimes second ballot at the convention. For instance, Tennessee law calls for delegates to back their candidate through the first two ballots and has no exception for death included in the statute. " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">1 Richard Pildes, a constitutional law professor at the New York University School of Law, stressed, however, that even under normal circumstances, the Democratic delegates are technically free “on the first ballot to vote their conscience.” As for the GOP convention rules, Pildes told me they specifically bind the delegates, and as Trump is the only candidate who will really have delegates, the party might need to issue an “interpretation” of the rules or even vote to change them to deal with this unforeseen situation.
Brown and Pildes said it wouldn’t necessarily prevent a drawn-out convention battle, but if Biden had picked a running mate, that might go a long way in limiting the intraparty fighting because Democrats would already have someone to rally around rather than being split among a host of alternatives. On the other hand, Vice President Pence would automatically ascend to the presidency should something happen to Trump, giving the Republicans a pretty straightforward pick if disaster struck before their August convention.
Basically, the party chooses. But I think my previous post's points still stand -- how would the party choose in a way that doesn't alienate a substantial portion of their voters? If Biden had already chosen a running mate that makes things a lot easier IMO, but if he hadn't, I can't see a resolution that doesn't avoid causing huge liabilities for the candidate.
PVW said:
Basically, the party chooses. But I think my previous post's points still stand -- how would the party choose in a way that doesn't alienate a substantial portion of their voters? If Biden had already chosen a running mate that makes things a lot easier IMO, but if he hadn't, I can't see a resolution that doesn't avoid causing huge liabilities for the candidate.
I think the Democrats can deal with that. So long as the candidates and their chief staffers all act like adults and keep their focus on defeating Trump …
Oh ****, never mind.
PVW said:
ridski said:
If, heaven forfend, Biden fell terminally ill tomorrow, what is the Party's plan? Are there no contingency plans or Party rules for what happens if a designated nominee will not or cannot run in the General Election?
538 did an article on this. My take is that even when there are plans, it makes a huge mess. On if the candidate can't continue, before the convention:
Basically, the party chooses. But I think my previous post's points still stand -- how would the party choose in a way that doesn't alienate a substantial portion of their voters? If Biden had already chosen a running mate that makes things a lot easier IMO, but if he hadn't, I can't see a resolution that doesn't avoid causing huge liabilities for the candidate.
Thanks.
Klinker said:
You and your fellow Biden zombies are the ones trying to drive us off the cliff of defeat. There is still time to save this country but every second we spend continuing to prop up this disaster of a candidate is a second lost in the fight to defeat Trump.
If a Democrat beats Trump in November there will be no need for finger pointing.
At least Nan had a candidate that she believed had the best chance of beating Trump. You have yet to name one.
nohero said:
PVW said:
Basically, the party chooses. But I think my previous post's points still stand -- how would the party choose in a way that doesn't alienate a substantial portion of their voters? If Biden had already chosen a running mate that makes things a lot easier IMO, but if he hadn't, I can't see a resolution that doesn't avoid causing huge liabilities for the candidate.I think the Democrats can deal with that. So long as the candidates and their chief staffers all act like adults and keep their focus on defeating Trump …
Oh ****, never mind.
Not even just Sanders voters -- let's say the new nominee is Cuomo. Go tell someone who voted for one of the many qualified women who ran that some guy who didn't even run is now the nominee.
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Seems like maybe the DNC ought to be considering bigger issues than who GUG Biden chooses for a running mate.
Democrats, It’s Time to Consider a Plan B