Bernie Sanders, champion of the downtrodden
author said:
Well I don't think Malcolm Forbes ever lost much sleep over social conditions
But I really like Andrew Carnegie................considered one of the three richest men in the world
During the last 18 years of his life he gave 90 per cent of his wealth to Educational Pursuits, Museums ,
the Arts etc. He left this world a better place
Odd thing to say- Forbes dropped dead at home after a charity event. Probably just looking for a tax break.
According to the Associated Press he died of a heart attack at home and in his sleep
He was known for his business acumen and lavish life style
I could find no record of his charitable contributions
author said:
According to the Associated Press he died of a heart attack at home and in his sleep
He was known for his business acumen and lavish life style
I could find no record of his charitable contributions
By "no records" I assume, unless you work for the IRS, you mean "I wasn't able to find anything after a Google search". The dog that didn't bark!
Luckily for us both, my google-fu is exceptionally strong.
http://articles.latimes.com/1990-02-25/news/mn-2220_1_publisher-malcolm-forbes
Died in his sleep, at home, after flying back from a charity event in London that day. Jet lag is a killer.
Also quoted, conveniently in his obit, as giving several million to charity annually.
If you ARE at a terminal in the IRS and you can "find records" I suggest you don't share any here, whatever the result. That's a felony.
I'm not on the Forbes fan club list, but it is pretty repellant that, because he's a rich guy and maybe lived a life you don't approve of, he is declare to not have had concern for his fellow man. Outrageous. If he gave "several million" even one year, he outweighed the contribution of the vast majority of what those criticizing him likely contributed in a lifetime.
Now I know money isn't everything, but it does have a bigger impact than thinking the right thoughts and having the right opinions in a lot of cases. Maybe most.
I suppose the question could be asked, how much did he give to charity as a portion of his new worth
The fact that Andrew Carnegie gave away 90 % of his holdings impresses me
I was once in Bar Harbor and spotted a huge ocean going yacht that was painted pitch black
someone pointed out to me that it belonged to Malcom Forbes
Years and years later I was on the Greek Island of Poros
In April they stage a huge sale of ocean going yachts
You will never guess whose yacht I spotted there
author said:
I suppose the question could be asked, how much did he give to charity as a portion of his new worth
The fact that Andrew Carnegie gave away 90 % of his holdings impresses me
I was once in Bar Harbor and spotted a huge ocean going yacht that was painted pitch black
someone pointed out to me that it belonged to Malcom Forbes
Years and years later I was on the Greek Island of Poros
In April they stage a huge sale of ocean going yachts
You will never guess whose yacht I spotted there
Hillary gave $1mm on over $10mm in income in 2015. Call it 10%.
All but $42,000 went to her foundation.
Does she pass? At what percent is she living right?
People need to know where the approval for lifestyle threshold lies.
cramer said:
http://givingpledge.org/
That is impressive. Makes me feel good They missed me but I guess the winter coats I donate
in November do not reach any records. Still "to each according to their needs, from each according to their ability " works for me.
author said:
cramer said:
http://givingpledge.org/
That is impressive. Makes me feel good They missed me but I guess the winter coats I donate
in November do not reach any records. Still "to each according to their needs, from each according to their ability " works for me.
Ah. Communism. Righto.
It's a satisfying creed when we're talking about other people's abilities and our needs.
author said:
cramer said:
http://givingpledge.org/
That is impressive. Makes me feel good They missed me but I guess the winter coats I donate
in November do not reach any records. Still "to each according to their needs, from each according to their ability " works for me.
It was started by Warren Buffet and Bill Gates.
btw - I'm from Pittsburgh and was fortunate to be able to enjoy Andrew Carnegie's gifts to the city.
Jackson_Fusion said:
author said:
cramer said:
http://givingpledge.org/
That is impressive. Makes me feel good They missed me but I guess the winter coats I donate
in November do not reach any records. Still "to each according to their needs, from each according to their ability " works for me.
Ah. Communism. Righto.
It's a satisfying creed when we're talking about other people's abilities and our needs.
Acts of the Apostles, before it was Marx.
Jackson_Fusion said:
author said:
cramer said:
http://givingpledge.org/
That is impressive. Makes me feel good They missed me but I guess the winter coats I donate
in November do not reach any records. Still "to each according to their needs, from each according to their ability " works for me.
Ah. Communism. Righto.
It's a satisfying creed when we're talking about other people's nee
Or Socialism .............or Christianity in its purest form...........I am my brothers's keeper
They are beautiful creeds
Always a pisser when the adherents of the religion that put God in their earthbound deities while exterminating anyone who didn't kneel with the proper vigor start telling Christians what they believe.
"Jesus was a Marxist! It's in the bible! Chapter 38 Verse 16 'and yea, I commanded Yezhof to exterminate the Kulaks for their wickedness, and he totally did, and it was good!'"
I know, I know, if only your religion was practiced in its "purest form" it would be great!
A religious discussion on a thread about Bernie Sanders?
Of course someone did defend Bernie's life style by saying he was a politician not a nun.
I have yet to find a belief that did not have cynicism lurking in the back ground
nohero said:
Jackson_Fusion said:
hoops said:
the crap being flung at the wall over him buying a house? thats some nonsense.
http://media.cq.com/50Richest/
http://moneynation.com/bernie-sanders-net-worth/
just for kicks
http://www.profitconfidential.com/net-worth/ron-paul-net-worth-5/
Is Paul agitating for wealth redistribution through higher taxation? TIA.
Probably not. His target audience for his product endorsements are "disaster preppers" who can be sold overpriced "physical gold" and food freeze-drying systems to get ready for economic or societal meltdowns.
When we turn those who dare think differently than we "think" we make ourselves look like a caricature.
Here's one of the "disaster preppers" who just wants to be left alone. Let me guess. You'd like to see him kicked off his own land, because you are civilized.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xL5i3iJpKk
LOST said:
RealityForAll said:
LOST said:
terp said:
Where does he get the $$ for all the stuff he wants to provide "for free" if he isn't going to steal from the wage earners?
By "stealing" form those who have stolen.
This is the way anarchists speak. Are you an anarchist?
====================================================
Property is theft! (French: La propriété, c'est le vol !) is a slogan coined byFrench anarchist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon in his 1840 book What is Property?
What is property? may I not likewise answer, It is robbery!, without the certainty of being misunderstood; the second proposition being no other than a transformation of the first?
— Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, What is Property?[I]
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_is_theft!
Funny because I was going to accuse Terp of being an anarchist, since he implies that all taxation is theft.
All property is not theft in the sense that most people have worked hard for what they have. Many have not. Some are actually thieves.
But what is the origin of the very idea of "property". Wasn't the first property land? Historically land was acquired through military conquest. Is that theft?
Getting back to taxing "wage earners" why do "Conservatives" so hate what they call "the death tax"? It's a tax on individuals who acquire property by having the right parents, that is, by sheer luck not work.
Taxation is largely theft. The way our tax system is constructed it certainly is theft. That is because the tax payer is basically un-represented in our system. Yes. I know that there is the illusion of representation, but it is a is just that.
Government should be funded in ways where the people paying for services have as much say in what, and how services are provided as possible. Our system seems oriented in the exact opposite fashion. It is one reason why we are witnessing so much frustration. Though the frustration seems much more visceral than logical, I think people are realizing the system is increasingly screwing them in larger and larger numbers. This is why you get things like Donald Trump.
LOST said:
PVW said:
Also, as to the OP, unless Sanders was pushing a policy to limit the number of homes people own, I don't really see what the supposed problem here is.
+
Bernie Sanders, from a poor family, received an education in public schools and grew up to be a United States Senator, and have enough money for a nice house or two or three. (Not a mansion with an elevator for his car). What he advocates is that people from poor backgrounds have the same opportunity he had. He knows that he got help along the way and wants to help others.
Some people from humble backgrounds who "have made it" think they did it all on their own and look down upon those who have not made it.
What did he ever do to add real value? He spent his life in government and got rich. Seems very similar to many. Say what you will about Ron Paul, but he did not get rich via government. He did not have cronies. He did not take $$. He returned portions of his congressional budget every year and did not accept the pension.
At what would a bernie sanders have succeeded if not fr politics? Perhaps calligraphy.
terp said:
LOST said:
PVW said:
Also, as to the OP, unless Sanders was pushing a policy to limit the number of homes people own, I don't really see what the supposed problem here is.
+
Bernie Sanders, from a poor family, received an education in public schools and grew up to be a United States Senator, and have enough money for a nice house or two or three. (Not a mansion with an elevator for his car). What he advocates is that people from poor backgrounds have the same opportunity he had. He knows that he got help along the way and wants to help others.
Some people from humble backgrounds who "have made it" think they did it all on their own and look down upon those who have not made it.
What did he ever do to add real value? He spent his life in government and got rich. Seems very similar to many. Say what you will about Ron Paul, but he did not get rich via government. He did not have cronies. He did not take $$. He returned portions of his congressional budget every year and did not accept the pension.
So meanspirited. Bernie Sanders is one of the poorest members of Congress. He works hard at a job he likes and makes a good salary. He's very dedicated and a popular senator. What is the problem with this? It's not an easy job, requires relocation, and should they should be paid well. His biggest issue during the campaign was get money out of politics because of the influence. This has nothing to do with him finally, at the age of 84, being able to buy a nice house. You make it sound as though only the independently wealthy should be running this country so we can save a few bucks by not paying them.
terp,
corporate profit making/taking is pretty much theft too. You have to pay workers less than what they're actually work in order to generate profit.
Two can play your game.
Bernie got rich? The average homeowner in Maplewood has a net worth equal to his
He owns three houses in the clear. One being a row house on capitol hill. How many Maplewood homeowners have succeeded in that?
You don't know his worth. Did you get it from media who got it from his election filing reports? As Donald Trump has shown those reports are worthless:
http://variety.com/2016/biz/news/donald-trump-national-golf-club-palos-verdes-golf-course-value-1201791482/
http://fortune.com/2016/05/17/donald-trump-golf-taxes-mar-a-lago-national-golf-day/
He's been asked to release tax returns. He's released a one year. And I believe that was the 1040 summary page. During the primaries he's given one excuse after the other excuses on why he'll release it later. Now conveniently he's no longer asked. What is he hiding? At least Trump was honest enough to bluntly say he won't release his.
The one who has honestly released her taxes is Hillary. Ironic the only one who released he financials is the one constantly accused of being a crook.
So he's a social democrat. The ones running Venezuela also spout socialistic democracy. Angels they are not.
Which also brings up the question: Where is the Sanders campaign fund money going? Will there be a refund? Will it be kept in the family as was done previously?
http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/breaking-bernie-sanders-caught-funneling-money-to/
BG9 said:
He owns three houses in the clear. One being a row house on capitol hill. How many Maplewood homeowners have succeeded in that?
You don't know his worth. Did you get it from media who got it from his election filing reports? As Donald Trump has shown those reports are worthless:
http://variety.com/2016/biz/news/donald-trump-national-golf-club-palos-verdes-golf-course-value-1201791482/
http://fortune.com/2016/05/17/donald-trump-golf-taxes-mar-a-lago-national-golf-day/
He's been asked to release tax returns. He's released a one year. And I believe that was the 1040 summary page. During the primaries he's given one excuse after the other excuses on why he'll release it later. Now conveniently he's no longer asked. What is he hiding? At least Trump was honest enough to bluntly say he won't release his.
The one who has honestly released her taxes is Hillary. Ironic the only one who released he financials is the one constantly accused of being a crook.
So he's a social democrat. The ones running Venezuela also spout socialistic democracy. Angels they are not.
Which also brings up the question: Where is the Sanders campaign fund money going? Will there be a refund? Will it be kept in the family as was done previously?
http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/breaking-bernie-sanders-caught-funneling-money-to/
You neglect to mention that his wife just sold a home which has been in her family since 1900
That would cover the cost of one of the three homes
My wife just passed up on the chance to buy a gorgeous home in a beautiful setting in Middleburg Pa
for $200,000 . She could have done that and kept the home in Maplewood
She could have done that and kept substantial savings..............does she quality for whatever is your definition of the ruling class?
author said:
BG9 said:
He owns three houses in the clear. One being a row house on capitol hill. How many Maplewood homeowners have succeeded in that?
You don't know his worth. Did you get it from media who got it from his election filing reports? As Donald Trump has shown those reports are worthless:
http://variety.com/2016/biz/news/donald-trump-national-golf-club-palos-verdes-golf-course-value-1201791482/
http://fortune.com/2016/05/17/donald-trump-golf-taxes-mar-a-lago-national-golf-day/
He's been asked to release tax returns. He's released a one year. And I believe that was the 1040 summary page. During the primaries he's given one excuse after the other excuses on why he'll release it later. Now conveniently he's no longer asked. What is he hiding? At least Trump was honest enough to bluntly say he won't release his.
The one who has honestly released her taxes is Hillary. Ironic the only one who released he financials is the one constantly accused of being a crook.
So he's a social democrat. The ones running Venezuela also spout socialistic democracy. Angels they are not.
Which also brings up the question: Where is the Sanders campaign fund money going? Will there be a refund? Will it be kept in the family as was done previously?
http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/breaking-bernie-sanders-caught-funneling-money-to/
You neglect to mention that his wife just sold a home which has been in her family since 1900
That would cover the cost of one of the three homes
My wife just passed up on the chance to buy a gorgeous home in a beautiful setting in Middleburg Pa
for $200,000 . She could have done that and kept the home in Maplewood
She could have done that and kept substantial savings..............does she quality for whatever is your definition of the ruling class?
Did I say he was ruling class? But then being in the millionaires club, the United States Senate, restricted to the one hundred, one could say he is member of a ruling class.
Does he not enjoy some of the privileges of a ruling class? Such as getting to see Hamilton without having to wait for tickets. A trivial example. I know there are others not so trivial.
What is important is there are questions. Why has he not released several years of his taxes? Does he not claim to be for openness? What is he hiding?
BG9 said:
author said:
BG9 said:
He owns three houses in the clear. One being a row house on capitol hill. How many Maplewood homeowners have succeeded in that?
You don't know his worth. Did you get it from media who got it from his election filing reports? As Donald Trump has shown those reports are worthless:
http://variety.com/2016/biz/news/donald-trump-national-golf-club-palos-verdes-golf-course-value-1201791482/
http://fortune.com/2016/05/17/donald-trump-golf-taxes-mar-a-lago-national-golf-day/
He's been asked to release tax returns. He's released a one year. And I believe that was the 1040 summary page. During the primaries he's given one excuse after the other excuses on why he'll release it later. Now conveniently he's no longer asked. What is he hiding? At least Trump was honest enough to bluntly say he won't release his.
The one who has honestly released her taxes is Hillary. Ironic the only one who released he financials is the one constantly accused of being a crook.
So he's a social democrat. The ones running Venezuela also spout socialistic democracy. Angels they are not.
Which also brings up the question: Where is the Sanders campaign fund money going? Will there be a refund? Will it be kept in the family as was done previously?
http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/breaking-bernie-sanders-caught-funneling-money-to/
You neglect to mention that his wife just sold a home which has been in her family since 1900
That would cover the cost of one of the three homes
My wife just passed up on the chance to buy a gorgeous home in a beautiful setting in Middleburg Pa
for $200,000 . She could have done that and kept the home in Maplewood
She could have done that and kept substantial savings..............does she quality for whatever is your definition of the ruling class?
Did I say he was ruling class? But then being in the millionaires club, the United States Senate, restricted to the one hundred, one could say he is member of a ruling class.
Does he not enjoy some of the privileges of a ruling class? Such as getting to see Hamilton without having to wait for tickets. A trivial example. I know there are others not so trivial.
What is important is there are questions. Why has he not released several years of his taxes? Does he not claim to be for openness? What is he hiding?
Is there no requirement for releasing tax returns on a regular basis for Congress People?
LOST said:
RealityForAll said:
LOST said:
terp said:
Where does he get the $$ for all the stuff he wants to provide "for free" if he isn't going to steal from the wage earners?
By "stealing" form those who have stolen.
This is the way anarchists speak. Are you an anarchist?
====================================================
Property is theft! (French: La propriété, c'est le vol !) is a slogan coined byFrench anarchist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon in his 1840 book What is Property?
What is property? may I not likewise answer, It is robbery!, without the certainty of being misunderstood; the second proposition being no other than a transformation of the first?
— Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, What is Property?[I]
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_is_theft!
Funny because I was going to accuse Terp of being an anarchist, since he implies that all taxation is theft.
All property is not theft in the sense that most people have worked hard for what they have. Many have not. Some are actually thieves.
But what is the origin of the very idea of "property". Wasn't the first property land? Historically land was acquired through military conquest. Is that theft?
Getting back to taxing "wage earners" why do "Conservatives" so hate what they call "the death tax"? It's a tax on individuals who acquire property by having the right parents, that is, by sheer luck not work.
IMHO, the first type of property recognized by western civilation appears to be a tie between: i.) product of the work-person's own hands; or ii.) land to which the person/group has set claim. Our law'frequently focuses on distinguishing between personal and real property.
Not all land (referred to as real property in the law) was acquired through military conquest. For example, Peter Minuit apparently exchanged personal property (steel axes, glass beads, etc) with the Lenape (or some say it was the Manahatin, Canarsie, Shinnecock, or Munsee Indians) for real property (now known as Manhattan Island).
RealityForAll said:
IMHO, the first type of property recognized by western civilation appears to be a tie between: i.) product of the work-person's own hands; or ii.) land to which the person/group has set claim. Our law'frequently focuses on distinguishing between personal and real property.
Not all land (referred to as real property in the law) was acquired through military conquest. For example, Peter Minuit apparently exchanged personal property (steel axes, glass beads, etc) with the Lenape (or some say it was the Manahatin, Canarsie, Shinnecock, or Munsee Indians) for real property (now known as Manhattan Island).
I can try to find references, but from what I've read, native americans didn't have the same concept of land as property that we do -- Minuit may have thought he was purchasing the land in perpetuity, with exclusive rights of ownership, but that wasn't necessarily how they understood it. I believe I also read that the band he "purchased" from wasn't actually even the one that resided in lower Manhattan.
(ETA - this differing concept of ownership is also, IMO, a strong argument against the idea of property as a "natural right" rather than a culturally specific one)
Well I don't think Malcolm Forbes ever lost much sleep over social conditions
But I really like Andrew Carnegie................considered one of the three richest men in the world
During the last 18 years of his life he gave 90 per cent of his wealth to Educational Pursuits, Museums ,
the Arts etc. He left this world a better place