Starbucks in the Village?
peteglider said:
really needed in the village. Love their coffee. There isn't a place to stop in later for coffee, a snack, etc.
Village coffee is really more of a diner, and not open late. They're not competitive
Really needed? We have coffee in the train station, Village Coffee, bagel Chateau, Able Baker and Palmer's (haven't heard of it til just now...will check it out). Able Baker just expanded. Not sure what their hours are. We really really really don't need a Starbucks.
OliveBee said:
definition of fast food is in town ordinance. Doesn't rule out SBUX I believe
The definition from Maplewood's code of ordinances -
"FAST-FOOD RESTAURANT - Eating establishments where most of the cooked food is not prepared to order but prepared prior to being ordered."
http://ecode360.com/9417250?highlight=food#9417250
ffof said:
peteglider said:
really needed in the village. Love their coffee. There isn't a place to stop in later for coffee, a snack, etc.
Village coffee is really more of a diner, and not open late. They're not competitive
Really needed? We have coffee in the train station, Village Coffee, bagel Chateau, Able Baker and Palmer's (haven't heard of it til just now...will check it out). Able Baker just expanded. Not sure what their hours are. We really really really don't need a Starbucks.
I'm pretty sure the free market will decide whether we "need" a Starbucks or not.
Thanks for pointing that out. I had no idea my word wasn't the last word.
Anyway, with our ordinances written as such, hopefully we won't even have to find out if it's 'needed' or not.
If people are going to argue that Starbucks qualifies as fast food, so would every pizzeria selling by the slice. Do we want to give up pizza by the slice in the village just to keep out a Starbucks?
Well, at least pizza is made on site. Starbucks food comes wrapped and pre-prepared.
ml1 said:
If people are going to argue that Starbucks qualifies as fast food, so would every pizzeria selling by the slice. Do we want to give up pizza by the slice in the village just to keep out a Starbucks?
I think the word "most" in that ordinance saves our pizza places. It's like some states have rules for bars where they have to garner "most" of their sales from food over alcohol.
I always ask for a whole pizza to be made, and then buy a slice from that. Ordering a slice that has been sitting there - what are we, animals?
Vast majority of Starbucks' sales are beverages, though, which are made on site (and often to order).
ffof said:
Well, at least pizza is made on site. Starbucks food comes wrapped and pre-prepared.
ffof said:
Well, at least pizza is made on site. Starbucks food comes wrapped and pre-prepared.
McDonald's hamburgers are made on site too. Made on site is not in the ordinance's definition of fast food.
ridski said:
ml1 said:
If people are going to argue that Starbucks qualifies as fast food, so would every pizzeria selling by the slice. Do we want to give up pizza by the slice in the village just to keep out a Starbucks?
I think the word "most" in that ordinance saves our pizza places. It's like some states have rules for bars where they have to garner "most" of their sales from food over alcohol.
And how much of Starbucks' business is warming up prepared food? I'm just saying that by any measure, if Starbucks sausage and egg sandwiches are "fast food," so is a slice at Village Trattoria.
As far as I'm concerned, neither is fast food. But if someone is going to be consistent, one can't argue Starbucks is fast food, but warming up a pre-baked slice is not.
oh well, i mean whatever. I just don't want to see a Starbucks. maybe i'm in the minority. I would imagine a starbucks will drive out some of our long-time businesses. Hey, didn't Starbucks already pass up a chance to be in Maplewood? ...not enough parking.
apple44 said:
I always ask for a whole pizza to be made, and then buy a slice from that. Ordering a slice that has been sitting there - what are we, animals?
It's true. And I always tell Cactus Charly to make me a fresh burrito instead of nuking one from the freezer.
ml1 said:
ridski said:
ml1 said:
If people are going to argue that Starbucks qualifies as fast food, so would every pizzeria selling by the slice. Do we want to give up pizza by the slice in the village just to keep out a Starbucks?
I think the word "most" in that ordinance saves our pizza places. It's like some states have rules for bars where they have to garner "most" of their sales from food over alcohol.
And how much of Starbucks' business is warming up prepared food? I'm just saying that by any measure, if Starbucks sausage and egg sandwiches are "fast food," so is a slice at Village Trattoria.
As far as I'm concerned, neither is fast food. But if someone is going to be consistent, one can't argue Starbucks is fast food, but warming up a pre-baked slice is not.
If you can show that "most" of the food cooked is not prepared to order at Trat or RG, then I'd agree with you. But I would say that "most" of the food at Starbucks is not, so qualifies as fast food under the ordinance.
I'm not arguing for or against a Starbucks, BTW, my previous post about sofas and coffee notwithstanding.
That's very cool! So you have joined the ranks?
apple44 said:
I'm surprised we haven't seen one of these by now.
so at 7 or 8 pm, after dinner say, there is no place I know of to just get a cup of coffee, get out - either by myself or a couple friends in MWVi (is that the symbol for Maplewood Village?) ;-)
I don't like the Millburn Starbucks, so it's most likely South Orange SBUX, and by the many familiar faces I see there - I'd say lots of us agree.
peteglider said:
so at 7 or 8 pm, after dinner say, there is no place I know of to just get a cup of coffee, get out - either by myself or a couple friends in MWVi (is that the symbol for Maplewood Village?)
I don't like the Millburn Starbucks, so it's most likely South Orange SBUX, and by the many familiar faces I see there - I'd say lots of us agree.
there is good coffee around Maplewood - but this is the issue. Friday night, 7pm, a had a hour to kill, wanted a cup of coffee and some wifi. No Dice.
I was sad.
favabean said:
I get that people love Starbucks. Its like "lovin it" at Mcd's fries. just to be clear. I don't hate or love the idea .
But to say Starbucks is not fast food is just so wrong since fast food is what they are expanding on.
http://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/starbucks-prices/
Right. A "McDonalds Cheeseburger" is a perfectly good "McDonalds Cheeseburger" but it isn't a burger with cheese.
So, would everyone who is OK with BSUX be just as OK with a Dunking Donuts in that spot? Its hard to see much of a difference in their corporate models aside from signage.
Klinker said:
favabean said:
I get that people love Starbucks. Its like "lovin it" at Mcd's fries. just to be clear. I don't hate or love the idea .
But to say Starbucks is not fast food is just so wrong since fast food is what they are expanding on.
http://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/starbucks-prices/
Right. A "McDonalds Cheeseburger" is a perfectly good "McDonalds Cheeseburger" but it isn't a burger with cheese.
I agree that the average person would likely consider a Starbucks or a Dunkin' Donuts fast food. My point was only with regard to the Maplewood ordinance definition.
Given how little of their menu is cooked food, it wouldn't be that difficult for Starbucks to adhere to the ordinance by just not serving cooked food in a Maplewood location.
I'm also not arguing in favor of a Starbucks. I'm just suggesting that it won't be Coffeegeddon if they do open in the village.
None of those coffee places are open past 8pm. Yes, a later hour coffee shop would be a welcome addition, regardless of whether it is SBUX or not.
ffof said:
peteglider said:
really needed in the village. Love their coffee. There isn't a place to stop in later for coffee, a snack, etc.
Village coffee is really more of a diner, and not open late. They're not competitive
Really needed? We have coffee in the train station, Village Coffee, bagel Chateau, Able Baker and Palmer's (haven't heard of it til just now...will check it out). Able Baker just expanded. Not sure what their hours are. We really really really don't need a Starbucks.
ArchBroad said:
None of those coffee places are open past 8pm. Yes, a later hour coffee shop would be a welcome addition, regardless of whether it is SBUX or not.
ffof said:
peteglider said:
really needed in the village. Love their coffee. There isn't a place to stop in later for coffee, a snack, etc.
Village coffee is really more of a diner, and not open late. They're not competitive
Really needed? We have coffee in the train station, Village Coffee, bagel Chateau, Able Baker and Palmer's (haven't heard of it til just now...will check it out). Able Baker just expanded. Not sure what their hours are. We really really really don't need a Starbucks.
My observation is that in the evening Starbucks is a hangout for teens. If that's what it becomes, it won't cannibalize the existing coffee places, and it will give kids a place to socialize.
Klinker said:
So, would everyone who is OK with BSUX be just as OK with a Dunking Donuts in that spot? Its hard to see much of a difference in their corporate models aside from signage.
I definitely prefer DD's coffee and food selections ( and, would patronize) over SBUX (dislike intensely their coffee, food and outrageous prices). But the DD Orange signage would be a major, cringe- worthy blight in our "quaint" village.
I have to second the person who stated Palmers is now the best coffee in town. I was flabbergasted how much better it is then it's local competition. Worth the trip just for a coffee.
If any of these coffee places would be able to offer a drive-thru window, I know many many parents of sleeping babies would go nuts for it. But a drive-thru would probably be akin to plopping a Chuck E Cheese in the middle of the village, as far as quaintness, is my guess...
afa said:
If any of these coffee places would be able to offer a drive-thru window, I know many many parents of sleeping babies would go nuts for it. But a drive-thru would probably be akin to plopping a Chuck E Cheese in the middle of the village, as far as quaintness, is my guess...
Enough people just stop in the middle of Maplewood Avenue/Baker Street/Highland Place to run into shops as it is.
Pizzerias around here make chicken parms using pre-cooked chicken. No difference between that and BK under that lame-o definition. In fact, BK makes burgers to order these days. from frozen patties of course, but then so does practically every diner around.
imho, starbucks tastes like battery acid but it beats the tepid crap you get elsewhere (except for Palmers which is awesome!!!!!). I'm all for protectionism when it comes to local mom and pops but if those mom and pops lack quality it's we the people who suffer under a regime that promotes mediocrity.
isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do what you you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!
I think this habit of referring to businesses by their stock ticker symbol is pretty cool. I'm going to start doing it too. So when I write "BAC" it refers to Bank of America, and "WFC" is Wells Fargo. My only question is whether or not to refer to Kings by the name of the private equity firm that owns it.