South Orange BOT election

Rather than creating opportunities for advancement, combining departments would more likely reduce the number of managerial roles (battalion chief, deputy chief etc). 

Any combination of town services would happen to reduce costs. Our costs are someone else's income, plain and simple.

Most people do not like change --  but sometimes it turns out for the best.  So it would not surprise me if the firefighters said they were not in favor and guessing most are more concerned about their own situation rather than the big picture of what is best for the residents (from a safety point of view and assume there is some savings at the top with only one chief, etc).

Lovesagoodsale said:
As far as the plan to merge firefighters is concerned, when two towns merge forces, there are cuts. Also, there are different ways of seeing things and no one way is right to everyone. That’s actually why we vote!  We, in SO, have full-time firefighters I believe and I believe Maplewood has a mix of full time and part time. Maplewood also has many more residents than South Orange so by merging towns, we lose some voting power over these public services. 


I always wonder about the idea of cutting even a single firefighter in a town full of historic homes, many without electrical upgrades. I guess we all just hope for the best and try to have the best public services available. I think we have that with our own public services and I worry that a merger would not give us any better service, would cost the same (taxes never go down!) and we dilute our power to make decisions about going forward by merging. 


Our taxes are high for many reasons. Cutting or merging our local services would be voting against our best interests IMO. If the towns want shared services, then merge the towns. Otherwise, keep our well-trained and highly responsive police, firefighters and DPW depts in tact. 


Our potholes get filled faster than Maplewood’s. Our firehouse is filled with people who are willing to run into our burning homes to save our lives and property. I’m willing to stand up and thank them and help them keep their jobs. They are great public servants and I’d like to look out for myself and my neighbors by keeping them all working here, for us.  


Merge the town office locations. Maybe we can save some rent money. 

 When did firefighters get tasked with filling potholes?

Are you suggesting MW firefighters aren’t just as willing to run into a burning home?

What is the right number of firefighters that we should have in SO? 

 Should that number be determined by the employees?

Don’t you think every employee (especially a Union) thinks there should be MORE employees so there is less work for everyone?

Which “office location” should be eliminated?  Should everyone in SO have to go to MW to conduct business? You think MW will let SO use space at no cost?

I look forward to your answers. Better yet, since this is the election thread, I look forward to hearing from the candidates on these issues.  

I see what you did there!  It’s a great idea to get the candidates involved in public discussion but if I were them I’d do it in person since these threads really are uncivil or one-sided in some instances. For example, if I were Ms. Davis Ford, I wouldn’t come on this thread to participate. It started out in such a hostile, manner to her, what good could come of it?  I am looking forward to hearing more at various venues in the upcoming months. I really think we could find a way to discuss things and issues without ganging up or assuming the worst before we know the facts, but that’s just my opinion!

Mayhew: I know the difference between police and firefighters and DPW personnel and I believe we would vote against our own interests if we consolidated at all before officially consolidating the towns. It would only serve to dilute our voting power and have fewer full-time public service employees to keep our town up. I don’t buy the model you guys are going by. That’s what makes horse races!

People have talked about consolidation for years but is this business with Fire Departments anything that anyone (other than Lovie) is actually proposing? 

Before she was booted from Nextdoor Lovie spent a lot of time rambling on about this on that platform but my understanding was that it was just a straw man.

At some point we managed to consolidate our school systems, our courts, and our building departments/code enforcement, right? How has that gone?

Lovesagoodsale said:
For example, if I were Ms. Davis Ford, I wouldn’t come on this thread to participate. 

 I've never seen a single word from DDF on social media. Is she online anywhere? Sheena will always get my vote because of her active online presence. 

Lovesagoodsale said:
As far as the plan to merge firefighters is concerned, when two towns merge forces, there are cuts. Also, there are different ways of seeing things and no one way is right to everyone. That’s actually why we vote!  We, in SO, have full-time firefighters I believe and I believe Maplewood has a mix of full time and part time. Maplewood also has many more residents than South Orange so by merging towns, we lose some voting power over these public services. 

Maplewood's fire fighters are professional fire fighters.  What do you mean by full and part-time?

Your full post implies that they are not well-trained. What exactly do you mean?

Klinker said:
People have talked about consolidation for years but is this business with Fire Departments anything that anyone (other than Lovie) is actually proposing? 

 

February 20, 2018 - Village Green:  

"Maplewood and South Orange are moving forward with consolidating their fire departments, with Maplewood taking the lead.

Maplewood Mayor Vic DeLuca made the announcement at tonight’s Maplewood Township Committee. The mayor reported that the particulars of the framework for merging are:

• Maplewood will be the lead agency — all firefighters will be employees of the Township of Maplewood
• There will be 4 shifts (as there are now), with a minimum of 14 fire personnel on duty and 17 on-duty fire personnel (optimally)
• There will continue to be 3 fire houses.

• There will continue to be 5 engines and trucks total.
• Maplewood will be absorbing firefighters from South Orange into a newly named Maplewood and South Orange Fire Department

“That is the framework. We have a lot more to do. We have a lot more people to speak to, but we just wanted to update you because that is where we are,” said DeLuca.

There were no questions from the Township Committee members. DeLuca did not detail next steps or a timeframe.

Last October, Maplewood and South Orange townships released the results of a jointly funded study, recommending that the two towns begin taking concrete steps toward merging fire departments.

The study estimated that the consolidation could result in an estimated annual cost savings of $582,659 to $1.6 million.

Town leaders say they support the recommendations but caution that the process would take negotiations and time."

https://villagegreennj.com/police-and-fire/maplewood-take-lead-fire-department-consolidation-south-orange/ 

This is the Consolidation Study: 

http://www.southorange.org/DocumentCenter/View/1146/South-Orange---Maplewood-Fire-Departments---Mantiou-Final-Report---October-2017-?bidId=

I don't know where the consolidation stands.  Sweeney was trying to modify the Shared Services and Consolidation Act to make it easier for a towns like South Orange which is a Civil Service town and Maplewood, which is not, to consolidate services. It got out of the legislative committee but I don't think it has yet been passed by the full legislature. 

Yahoo: look up the meaning of full-time and part-time. Has nothing to do with professionalism. I’m not one to smear anyone on social media. I don’t necessarily think it’s a good place for political discourse these days because i see people getting slammed for asking questions and not agreeing with the crowd. 

I believe many people who are act this way on social media don’t behave the same way in public and in person and that gives me hope for the future. 

I grew up in a time/place where disagreement didn’t mean people were enemies or had cart blanche to resort to name-calling, ad hominem attacks and the like. I guess it’s an adjustment period for modern societies. 

I can’t imagine what made people so unkind, in general. We certainly do live in interesting times!

Lovesagoodsale said:
Yahoo: look up the meaning of full-time and part-time. Has nothing to do with professionalism. I’m not one to smear anyone on social media. I don’t necessarily think it’s a good place for political discourse these days because i see people getting slammed for asking questions and not agreeing with the crowd. 


I believe many people who are act this way on social media don’t behave the same way in public and in person and that gives me hope for the future. 


I grew up in a time/place where disagreement didn’t mean people were enemies or had cart blanche to resort to name-calling, ad hominem attacks and the like. I guess it’s an adjustment period for modern societies. 


I can’t imagine what made people so unkind, in general. We certainly do live in interesting times!

 This is hilarious. You threatened me with a lawyer on NextDoor and you threatened Sheena with legal action as well.  Not very kind. 

Yeah, I think it is fair to say that Lovie has consistently been the meanest mean girl on the platforms on which I have encountered her.

I don’t threaten and I’m not mean. Have a great day. 

Thanks for posting @cramer. I hadn't seen the update. Love the savings! Now if we could take that cash and share a local animal shelter. (I'll never give up.)

it has been my experience in the last decade that when a person disagrees with the dominant narrative, a concerted effort is made to smear that person. This sometimes involves name-calling and other behavior that adults would normally find abhorrent. I don’t know how it crept its way into our culture but smear jobs are real. This is exactly the reason I urge political candidates and all others who do not exactly tow the line of the herd not to subject themselves to it on forums like this. No good comes of it. I imagine time will show this period in our human history was manipulated by bullies, for lack of a better word. 

Having take strong stands on several fronts, I can attest to the homogenization of socially “acceptable” opinions and would simply refer anyone interested to check history, as it is most definitely repeating itself. Name-calling on public forums is antisocial and divisive. 

Good day to you all, neighbors. 

(Edited to change “haven” to “having.”

Lovie, your opinions are perfectly OK, even if most people here do not share them.  What is not fine is your bullying, browbeating behavior.  It was that behavior that got you kicked off of Nextdoor and I suspect it was that behavior that got you kicked out of the local Facebook group. 

In short, its not what you say, its how you say it.  

Only 2.5 weeks remain before the filing deadline (March 11) to run for the 4 vacant seats on the BOT (1 Village President and 3 Trustees). 

So far, there are 2 publicly announced candidates for VP (Sheena Collum and Deborah Davis Ford) and several rumored candidates running for Trustee. (Mark Rosner has confirmed he is not running again and it is rumored that Howard Levison also is not running again)

Klinker, on these boards you have called me a “crackpot” and “mean” and now you are opining about things you have no actual factual knowledge about. Just pointing this out. I take my reputation seriously and often find when people cannot come up with prior bad acts, namecalling seems to be the tactic. Duly noted. 

Lovesagoodsale said:
Yahoo: look up the meaning of full-time and part-time. Has nothing to do with professionalism. I’m not one to smear anyone on social media. I don’t necessarily think it’s a good place for political discourse these days because i see people getting slammed for asking questions and not agreeing with the crowd. 


I believe many people who are act this way on social media don’t behave the same way in public and in person and that gives me hope for the future. 


I grew up in a time/place where disagreement didn’t mean people were enemies or had cart blanche to resort to name-calling, ad hominem attacks and the like. I guess it’s an adjustment period for modern societies. 


I can’t imagine what made people so unkind, in general. We certainly do live in interesting times!

 So you don't want to answer my questions.

Lovie, I apologize for calling you a crack pot.  That was unkind and out of line.  

Your behavior towards others, here and elsewhere has been, at times, quite mean and bullying.  I stand by that statement. I think that a change of approach might make your interaction with others online more rewarding. I wish you the best of luck in finding a better approach.

-K

my name is Debra Goodman, Klinker. What’s your name or are you only comfortable saying the things you do under an alias?  I think we should aim for civility in order to foster participation of the most diverse people and opinions. 

Debra Goodman, I'm Dan Dietrich.  Every one of your posts starts or contains attacks on others for disagreeing with you.  That is a form of bullying.  We are all allowed to disagree here, but you attack everyone in advance.  It's exhausting to read.  If you posted your thoughts without the added stuff you might find a more receptive audience.

Klinker?

Yeah, given Deb's oft repeated hints of lawsuits I wouldn't suggest anyone uncloak for her here.  

Deb, this is a anonymous platform.  Some of us are known to others, some of us are friends IRL but there is no obligation to reveal your actual identity. I would, additionally, caution you that outing a poster here is a fairly serious violation of community standards.

Hi Librarylady here. It is each poster's choice whether to "out' their real name or use an alias. At one point the brothers Ross tried to get a board with only real names up and running and it really didn't work so well.  It would be best if one wasn't constantly bullied into revealing ones name. It could be kept secret for many many reason besides what you suggest. Posters can use whatever they are comfortable with and should not fear being hassled or bullied.

Agreed.  I have never cared, but I know some people use this forum for help with personal issues, and their identity is no business of mine.

mayhewdrive said:
Only 2.5 weeks remain before the filing deadline (March 11) to run for the 4 vacant seats on the BOT (1 Village President and 3 Trustees). 


So far, there are 2 publicly announced candidates for VP (Sheena Collum and Deborah Davis Ford) and several rumored candidates running for Trustee. (Mark Rosner has confirmed he is not running again and it is rumored that Howard Levison also is not running again)

 Howard too? They haven't always leaned towards my agenda but they both are experienced and knowledgeable. Sorry if they both leave.

Howard is the workhorse on the BOT. I'll be sorry to see him go. He has always been on the lookout for ways to save us money. 

I think namecalling under aliases ruins decent convos but maybe that’s just me. As you were, everyone.