So, when there is a mass shooting by a native born American it is politicizing tragedy to mention gun laws but right after the attack in NYC Trump can slam Sen. Schumer for immigration law?

The gentleman who ran out of his house, barefooted, knew he had to respond to the carnage unfolding at the nearby church. He believes he hit the gunman who had run to his vehicle. This man then ran over to a young man who had observed the scene from his truck and asked for his help. Without hesitation, the two armed men took chase. 

Can anyone believe that there were no heroes or samaritans in this scenario? What could an unarmed person at the scene have done to stop the gunman? Call 911? The samaritans called 911 a number of times while pursuing the killer.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/11/06/saints-first-baptist-church-murdered-god-answering-prayers/

mtierney said:

The gentleman who ran out of his house, barefooted, knew he had to respond to the carnage unfolding at the nearby church. He believes he hit the gunman who had run to his vehicle. This man then ran over to a young man who had observed the scene from his truck and asked for his help. Without hesitation, the two armed men took chase. 

Can anyone believe that there were no heroes or samaritans in this scenario? What could an unarmed person at the scene have done to stop the gunman? Call 911? The samaritans called 911 a number of times while pursuing the killer.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/11/06/saints-first-baptist-church-murdered-god-answering-prayers/

So after the gunman killed all those people in the church and was going back to his vehicle, your good guy with a gun shot at him and maybe hit him, maybe didn't, but was not successful at stopping the gunman. Then he proceeded to chase the gunman in - what, a flying gun? No, in a car. And he called 911 with, what a gun with cell service? No, with a phone.

So in the story you are telling us, I see a car and a phone being used helpfully. One gun used rather irrelevantly. And one gun used to awful effect. 

But your takeaway is that guns are the answer.

Of course it it -- the gun is one of the deities of American Conservatism, and it demands human sacrifice.

mtierney said:

The gentleman who ran out of his house, barefooted, knew he had to respond to the carnage unfolding at the nearby church. He believes he hit the gunman who had run to his vehicle. This man then ran over to a young man who had observed the scene from his truck and asked for his help. Without hesitation, the two armed men took chase. 

Can anyone believe that there were no heroes or samaritans in this scenario? What could an unarmed person at the scene have done to stop the gunman? Call 911? The samaritans called 911 a number of times while pursuing the killer.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/11/06/saints-first-baptist-church-murdered-god-answering-prayers/

Your 'heroes or samaritans' have been dreaming of the day they get to grab a gun and give barefoot chase to a bad guy.  I'll even say they pray for that day.  

I'm no Christian (wait, yes I am!) but is this really how we want to use the word samaritan? Someone who tries to shoot someone else? I'm sure Jesus would approve.

I think something got lost in the translation of that story.

The first rule anyone is taught in Emergency Response is ‘keep out of danger, and do not put anyone else, especially a member of the public, in danger’. 

Unless that well-intentioned person is part of a trained reserve or neighbourhood squad, at most he should have followed at a safe distance to observe where the shooter went, so he could report to 911 and police/SWAT. 

It's mind boggling that gun advocates are still finding validation of gun ownership in the aftermath of 26 dead and 20 plus critically wounded at the hands of a gun owner using a high capacity semi-automatic weapon.  The killer had 10-15 high capacity (30 rounds) magazines which he emptied.  Magazines are available with 75-100 rounds.  He used a variant of the AR-15 which retails for around $800. 

Yet they still believe the only way to prevent these bi-monthly events with deadly assault rifles  and high capacity magazines is the mythical good guy or gal with a gun.  Let's hope he or she has the 75-100 round magazines and good aim.  

all countries have mental illness.  Only one country has 280 million guns.  Can you guess which one?  

Here's a comparison of state gun death rates by gun regulation. States that have good gun regulations have much lower gun death rates than those that don't. The RED bars indicate that the stae has a higher than average U.S gun death rate.

So, so much for arming all. The more you arm the more likely you'll b killed by a gun. 

Well at least NJ's gun laws are set to be further tightened as Christie vetoed legislation gets reintroduced, passed and signed.

I think that's old data. A couple of years ago the number of guns in America surpassed the population.

That's like 350+ million guns.

Another fun fact is that 50% of the guns are owned by 3% of the population.

Woot said:

all countries have mental illness.  Only one country has 280 million guns.  Can you guess which one?  

RealityForAll said:
And, also teach youths that targeting civilians for mass shooting is NEVER justified, reprehensible and always deeply immoral.

I can't believe no one has thought of this! 

Eight hours makes one "well trained"?

"Under Michigan law, it is illegal for the nearly 618,000 people with concealed weapon permits to carry in designated gun-free zones — schools, day cares, sports arenas, large concert halls, taverns, places of worship, hospitals, many college dorms or classrooms, and casinos. However, the law does not explicitly prevent them from openly carrying in those areas, which has led to lawsuits and court rulings.

The current law also gives the leaders of churches, synagogues, mosques and other places of worship permission to allow concealed weapons.

The legislation would prohibit open carry except in certain circumstances, but allow concealed carry in the areas previously dubbed gun-free zones, as long as a license holder completes eight extra hours of training or is a certified firearms instructor. Private establishments that were previously gun-free zones could still prohibit guns, but public facilities could not."

http://nypost.com/2017/11/07/michigan-lawmakers-look-to-allow-concealed-guns-in-schools/

joanne said:

The first rule anyone is taught in Emergency Response is ‘keep out of danger, and do not put anyone else, especially a member of the public, in danger’. 

Unless that well-intentioned person is part of a trained reserve or neighbourhood squad, at most he should have followed at a safe distance to observe where the shooter went, so he could report to 911 and police/SWAT. 

I posted this definition this am in the Rose Garden thread because the NYT coverage of events favored this word throughout its article of the massacre today. Using the descriptive words of churchgoers repel the paper, and that Times uses an incorrect one in its place. Why do you think?

DICTIONARY

bystander×

a person who is standing near and watching something that is happening but is not involved in it: Many innocent bystanders were injured by the explosion. (Definition of “bystander” from the Cambridge Academic Content Dictionary © Cambridge University Press) 

I didn’t use ‘bystander’, I double-checked. We use one of a host of other terms, depending on the person’s role and their training. In fact, ‘Good Samaritan’ is a legally defined role in courts and emergency response. It’s about stopping and giving aid, not chasing down to injure or kill. 

Edited to add: the role you’re searching for is more like White Knight (probably not PC) or Knight in Shining Armour.

I think "armed suspect" might work.

In reference to whom?

 Surely not these two men who took action. The Gunman, who was dressed in black combat gear with a skull mask, needs a much stronger description!

BTW, this church video tapes their services so the investigators have full witness,

In answer to Joanne’s suggestion that a call to 911 instead of pursuit would be the right action: As far as calling 911 when the gunman was fleeing the scene in his SUV, the heroic two men following in a truck made a number of 911 calls as they crossed county lines.

ridski said:

I think "armed suspect" might work.

mtierney said:

In reference to whom?

 Surely not these two men who took action. The Gunman, who was dressed in black combat gear with a skull mask, needs a much stronger description!

BTW, this church video tapes their services so the investigators have full witness,




In answer to Joanne’s suggestion that a call to 911 instead of pursuit would be the right action: As far as calling 911 when the gunman was fleeing the scene in his SUV, the heroic two men following in a truck made a number of 911 calls as they crossed county lines.

ridski said:

I think "armed suspect" might work.

If I shot up a church, escaped in a vehicle, called the police and said that I had just escaped from a mass shooting in a church and I’ve been shot by the guy who is now chasing me in a truck with a rifle, who is the Samaritan and who is the armed suspect? 

We both are armed and dangerous suspects until such time as the actual killer has been determined by police.

precisely why those two guys are worthy  to be referred to as Samaritan or hero.what they did put their own lives to stop a killer. Definition of hero?

Why did God choose for those people to die? According to your article anyway.

Do you ask to die in your prayers?

I don't understand why you posted that article.

mtierney said:

precisely why those two guys are worthy  to be referred to as Samaritan or hero.what they did put their own lives to stop a killer. Definition of hero?

I didn’t say your Good Samaritan should call 911, but could respond appropriately to questions from 911 operators and other trained first responders. That’s what happens here. (000 operators are often on extended or broadcast calls to cover siege and hostage situations, chases etc. Members of the public may be asked to assist in specific ways if they can follow the directions given by the operators as they are given [not preempted])

You do want to check legal definitions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law

Many people who advocate rushing into burning buildings, for example, or stopping the shooter are confusing Good Samaritan acts with Duty to Rescue, which is a totally different concept and which might not hold in your jurisdiction. 

It’s not always “common sense” to rush in with Duty to Rescue, especially if trained responders’ lives are endangered trying to save you and the victims and the suspect. That’s why here, for example, we’re always urged to wait until instructed to act. Unless you’re trained in First Response and you’ve informed someone. 

Edited to insert a missed word