Seth Boyden teacher accused of removing student's hijab during class

I wonder if the teacher needs money for her legal defense. If anyone has contact with her and can ask, that’s a GoFundMe I could get behind. 

jeffl said:

I wonder if the teacher needs money for her legal defense. If anyone has contact with her and can ask, that’s a GoFundMe I could get behind. 

 Sign me up too.

jeffl said:

I wonder if the teacher needs money for her legal defense. If anyone has contact with her and can ask, that’s a GoFundMe I could get behind. 

 I suspect N.J.E.A. will provide funds for her defense When I was a teacher, they had a large fund for teacher legal defense. I wonder if she is being paid by the district while she is on leave. I hope so.

The district may also have a "render harmless" clause in its hiring contract that can offer legal/finalcial assistance.

Any news on this front?

I'm beginning to think we may never know...

drummerboy said:

Any news on this front?

I'm beginning to think we may never know...

patience grasshopper

drummerboy said:

Any news on this front?

I'm beginning to think we may never know...

 What, exactly do you think that we are going to ever know? We will never know what actually happened, there are two versions of that story and they conflict. 

We will never know exactly what is discovered in the investigation, because that is a Personnel matter and confidential. 

I think we're only ever going to know whether or not the teacher keeps their job. We will not be privy to the information that contributes to the decision, and we won't know if there is any disciplinary action taken.

There may be lawsuits in the future, and we may not know much about those either. Especially if they're settled out of court.

I truly understand the people want to have more information about the circumstances leading up to this incident. But the fact of the matter is I don't think we're ever going to get any more information than we already have.

If it's a police investigation, don't we have the right to know? That wouldn't be an internal personnel matter.

drummerboy said:

If it's a police investigation, don't we have the right to know? That wouldn't be an internal personnel matter.

 I understand your point. If there was an indictment, and a rest, charges filed or trial, that would all be public record. 

But what if the investigation is inconclusive? What if they interview every student in that room, and half of them corroborate the teachers version, and the other half corroborate the students version. Do we have a right to know what each of those students said in those interviews? Or do we need to know which students sided with which party? 

My personal bet is that if there is an inconclusive result to the investigation, there will be a public statement released without a lot of fanfare and without a lot of detail.

But what if it's not?

mrincredible said:

 I understand your point. If there was an indictment, and a rest, charges filed or trial, that would all be public record. 

But what if the investigation is inconclusive? What if they interview every student in that room, and half of them corroborate the teachers version, and the other half corroborate the students version. Do we have a right to know what each of those students said in those interviews? Or do we need to know which students sided with which party? 

My personal bet is that if there is an inconclusive result to the investigation, there will be a public statement released without a lot of fanfare and without a lot of detail.

I believe there have been instances in NJ in which teachers have approved the release of information from their personnel files, which could potentially happen here if the teacher is exonerated. (An attorney could speak intelligently of the specifics of this happening, maybe?)

I used to think highly of Ibtihaj Muhammad and read her book.  No more.  To publicly accuse this longtime Seth Boyden teacher based on the account of a second grader which resulted in this teacher’s home address being published and death threats against the teacher shows how wildly irresponsible Ibtihaj was in her use of social media.  

When my child was in first grade, the class teacher was fired.  The kids all said the teacher fell out the window.  News flash - that’s not what happened. 

FYI the fencer is doubling down on the story, mentioning the "pulling of hijabs" in her latest Instagram post from yesterday (10/29).

Also this was published last week - https://pix11.com/news/local-news/new-jersey/new-claims-made-against-nj-teacher-accused-of-removing-muslim-students-hijab/. It mentions "new claims", such as: 

An alleged incident happened back in April 2017, when Herman allegedly sided with a white student during a situation when classroom snacks were mixed up; Tarver says a Black student‘s snack was wrongfully given to the white student.

Sigh.

I don’t understand. There are different snacks depending on skin color!?

Heynj said:

I don’t understand. There are different snacks depending on skin color!?

There was an argument between the two students as to who was the rightful owner of a snack. The teacher supposedly intervened and said the snack belonged to the white student, but in reality the snack belonged to the black student.

That's my understanding anyhow. There is an implication that the teacher's decision was influenced by race.

Heynj said:

I don’t understand. There are different snacks depending on skin color!?

 I believe that each kid brings their own snacks.

composerjohn said:

FYI the fencer is doubling down on the story, mentioning the "pulling of hijabs" in her latest Instagram post from yesterday (10/29).

Also this was published last week - https://pix11.com/news/local-news/new-jersey/new-claims-made-against-nj-teacher-accused-of-removing-muslim-students-hijab/. It mentions "new claims", such as: 

An alleged incident happened back in April 2017, when Herman allegedly sided with a white student during a situation when classroom snacks were mixed up; Tarver says a Black student‘s snack was wrongfully given to the white student.

Sigh.

 What the hell does that mean?”Alleged incident” when Herman’s allegedly sided with a white student during a situation when classroom snacks were mixed up?” Who would even want to become a teacher these days??

cubby said:

Who would even want to become a teacher these days??

Good question!

An "alleged" snack mixup in a 2nd grade classroom - from 4 1/2 years ago - is being used to claim that Herman has a pattern of racist behavior. The lawyer wasn't there, The mom and her daughter weren't there either. The kids from the mixup are now in middle school. I doubt there's any record of the incident (hence the word "alleged"). It's an unprovable accusation and the lawyer knows it. Its only purpose is to sling mud and cast doubt. 

An earlier article mentioned an incident where the teacher took a beverage away from a student and threw it in the trash because kids were only allowed to to drink water in the classroom. It was presented as a shocking breach of professional behavior. Seriously???

so simply siding with the white student proved racism?  Even if it did happen, that just makes this complaint less credible when they cry racism over that.  Not everything is racism.  I have a black friend claiming a situation where he was denied service was racism (couldn't get a table when he called for a reservation).  I looked up their online reservation....and it was booked like they told him, but he was quick to cry racism.

Racism is not a one way street….

The Essex Co. prosecutor  declined to bring charges. 

“Following a full investigation and a thorough review of all the available evidence and the applicable law, the Essex County Prosecutor’s Office has concluded that there is insufficient evidence to sustain a criminal prosecution in this case,” read the release from the ECPO. “While we understand that many may find the incident troubling, as prosecutors we have a legal and moral obligation to only bring charges in cases where we believe we can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a crime has been committed. For those reasons, we will not move forward with this case.”

https://villagegreennj.com/towns/south-orange/essex-county-prosecutor-declines-to-bring-charges-in-south-orange-maplewood-hijab-case/

The teacher remains on administrative leave and the family brought civil charges against the school district and teacher last week, 

Jaytee said:

Racism is not a one way street….

Tell that to Nancy Gagnier, Executive Director of the CCR, who immediately  called for the teacher's removal.  

cramer said:

Jaytee said:

Racism is not a one way street….

Tell that to Nancy Gagnier, Executive Director of the CCR, who immediately  called for the teacher's removal.  

are you accusing Gagnier of racism?

if so, how does that work, exactly?

if not, then I don't get your point.

She immediately sided with the mother and Muhammad  without waiting to hear more about the case - she judged the teacher guilty without waiting for the results of the investigation. . 

What do you think Gagnier's reaction would have been if the parties had been reversed - a black teacher and a white student?

btw - The teacher was accused of being a racist.

cramer said:

The Essex Co. prosecutor  declined to bring charges. 

The teacher remains on administrative leave and the family brought civil charges against the school district and teacher last week, 

There are mixed messages on whether a lawsuit has been filed- YET. An article in Tap said a lawsuit wasn’t filed yet, but was forthcoming, but this article gets pretty specific about the contents of the lawsuit https://patch.com/new-jersey/maplewood/hijab-incident-maplewood-schools-essex-prosecutor-ends-probe

Meanwhile, there is no evidence online that is has been filed, yet. 

However, it’s been clear from the beginning that this was always about a money grab rather than actually making any policy changes, so I have no doubt that a lawsuit is still coming  

cramer said:

Tell that to Nancy Gagnier, Executive Director of the CCR, who immediately  called for the teacher's removal.  

My wife was involved with the CCR back when Fred was planning it. It was a fantastic idea, and one of the great things Fred has done. We are not involved with that anymore, and I heard some people are losing interest also. Back in the 90’s it was a hot topic, today I don’t see it. Nancy has been there for quite some time, and of course with any organization involved in race relations, there will be varied opinions on how to deal with situations that arise. 
Im glad the ECPO decided to not take the case. No crime was committed. Anyone calling for the teacher to be fired will probably regret saying that.  

cramer said:

She immediately sided with the mother and Muhammad  without waiting to hear more about the case - she judged the teacher guilty without waiting for the results of the investigation. . 

What do you think Gagnier's reaction would have been if the parties had been reversed - a black teacher and a white student?

btw - The teacher was accused of being a racist.

unfortunately, the CCR has done this before - declaring guilt before having all the facts - most notably in the Rosner-Jennings fiasco

Gagnier and Barbara Heisler,  a past Executive Director of the CCR  who also rushed to judgement, should apologize. I don't know what form the apology should take. Maybe just an acknowledgement  that they should have waited before rushing to judgement. 

btw - I know of one person who  contacted Gagnier about her post on Muhammad's Facebook page and she gave some kind of lame excuse. I don't remember what it was exactly but I do remember it was lame. 

I'm very glad that the prosecutor declined to press charges. but the teacher's life has been ruined. This should have never happened. It's tragic. 

cramer said:

Gagnier and Barbara Heisler,  a past Executive Director of the CCR  who also rushed to judgement, should apologize. I don't know what form the apology should take. Maybe just an acknowledgement  that they should have waited before rushing to judgement. 

btw - I know of one person who  contacted Gagnier about her post on Muhammad's Facebook page and she gave some kind of lame excuse. I don't remember what it was exactly but I do remember it was lame. 

Barbara Heisler hasn’t been with the CCR for over a decade. Yes, she like thousands more heard the fencer deliver the story as fact on her instagram page and believed the local hero before we all quickly learned the fencer was misleading the public. The Lounge also ran with the nonsensical version of events confusing many more.  I don’t think Barbara should be singled out. She’s  a very good person who means well.