Seth Boyden teacher accused of removing student's hijab during class

sprout said:

Redfruit said:

The Mom of the kid seems to dislike Jewish people.  

So, with our menu of approach options around this event, it looks like you are pulling for #1-3?

1. Pitchforks
2. Social media wars
3. Lawsuits
4. Restorative practices

 I don’t think your aware of the scope of the damage. Number 4 is an impossibility now. The teacher will never feel safe in that building again. Her presence is a danger to the children too. Thousands of social media followers consider her a hate monger, a bigot, etc.  The career she had, the life she had is over. Forget 4, won’t happen.  

Restorative practices have been used to address crimes with worse outcomes than this. 

Maybe most humans don't have the capacity or creativity to figure out how to make people and communities whole after such an event... but I'm still pulling for #4.

sprout said:

Restorative practices have been used to address crimes with worse outcomes than this. 

Maybe most humans don't have the capacity or creativity to figure out how to make people and communities whole after such an event... but I'm still pulling for #4.

 For that to happen, Muhammad  would have to publicly apologize to both the teacher and her legions of fans and followers. We’re talking over one hundred thousand of them. Then the mother would need to do the same. You see that happening? Your head remains firmly beneath the sand. 

Redfruit said:

sprout said:

Restorative practices have been used to address crimes with worse outcomes than this. 

Maybe most humans don't have the capacity or creativity to figure out how to make people and communities whole after such an event... but I'm still pulling for #4.

 For that to happen, Muhammad  would have to publicly apologize to both the teacher and her legions of fans and followers. We’re talking over one hundred thousand of them. Then the mother would need to do the same. You see that happening? Your head remains firmly beneath the sand. 

Your limited capacity and creativity is showing.

Redfruit said:

 For that to happen, Muhammad  would have to publicly apologize to both the teacher and her legions of fans and followers. We’re talking over one hundred thousand of them. Then the mother would need to do the same. You see that happening? Your head remains firmly beneath the sand. 

 The teacher would have to apologize too. Then all of those apologies would have to accepted in good faith by all involved.  Finally, the school community, parents, teachers, and students, would have to agree on what was needed for all  of them to work together going forward to avoid such an incident happening again.

sprout said:

jmitw said:

 you aren't grasping that there is a strong indication the item in question was a HOODIE that the teacher did not realize was being used as a hijab...

What makes you lean towards the explanation that the item was a hoodie that the teacher did not realize was being used as a hijab, rather than the explanation that the student was wearing a hijab that the teacher mistook for a hoodie?

 I just find it hard to believe that anyone would mistake a hijab for a hoodie or vice versa. Maybe from a far distance, but not if they're sitting in your classroom.

drummerboy said:

 I just find it hard to believe that anyone would mistake a hijab for a hoodie or vice versa. Maybe from a far distance, but not if they're sitting in your classroom.

You may be picturing children quietly sitting in a classroom that you can take in at your leisure. With the teacher at the point of 'gently' pushing back hoodies, she may have been a tad frustrated with some noise, chaos, and students not listening to her in the classroom. 

After being out of the classroom for the past year, it seems like students' need to talk, and mental health challenges are at record levels this year.  (And 2nd graders having missed 1st grade completely, haven't really learned how they are supposed to 'do school' -- which contributes to the chaos).

I think we should stop guessing.  

sprout said:

Redfruit said:

sprout said:

Restorative practices have been used to address crimes with worse outcomes than this. 

Maybe most humans don't have the capacity or creativity to figure out how to make people and communities whole after such an event... but I'm still pulling for #4.

 For that to happen, Muhammad  would have to publicly apologize to both the teacher and her legions of fans and followers. We’re talking over one hundred thousand of them. Then the mother would need to do the same. You see that happening? Your head remains firmly beneath the sand. 

Your limited capacity and creativity is showing.

 Other than interesting and creative ways to personally attack, You're really not adding much to the conversation. That said, I do appreciate your moxie!  

sbenois said:

I think we should stop guessing.  

 I guess so.

You are all fighting so hard to erase this unfortunate event from everyone's memory before anyone even knows the real facts that it clearly shows the bias.  You are all revealing your biases by so forcefully advocating for someone who clearly made a mistake whether it was a religious oversight or an invasion of personal space.

I wonder, if and when the facts are revealed, if they happen to not support each one of your presumptions, if you all will be brave enough to admit your bias and misguided claims to save what's really concerning everyone on here which is the town's reputation?

sprout said:

 1. FYI: It's spelled yarmulke.

2. My high school boyfriend would wear a baseball cap as a head covering in place of a yarmulke. As hats were generally not allowed, teachers sometimes did tell him to take it off, and there were a few occasions where a teacher removed it, but let him put it back on after he explained. 

The current event seems to have some similarities and some differences. My guess is the teacher may have made multiple errors such as:

1. did not recognize the student as her Muslim student -- she may have confused her Black students;
2. misidentified a hijab as a hoodie; 
3. pushed the hijab back off the students head (gently or not);
4. And although, based on the student's description, the teacher did tell the student to put it back on after the student explained it was her hijab, the teacher may have then tried to say something nice about the student's hair -- which is a religious faux pas.  

Orthodox Jewish women often wear a sheitel (wig) to cover their hair (and may have shaved or very short hair underneath). I learned about religious hair-commenting faux pas when I was a teenager and complimented one of my Orthodox cousins on her new hairstyle... It was a new wig, and it was not supposed to be 'attracting' to others.

 Point made.  You can't even get away with a spelling error when we talk about Yarmulke, so imagine the total meltdown if a teacher "mistakenly removes it".  Species, not discovered yet in distant galaxies would hear about it.

ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:

You are all fighting so hard to erase this unfortunate event from everyone's memory before anyone even knows the real facts that it clearly shows the bias.  You are all revealing your biases by so forcefully advocating for someone who clearly made a mistake whether it was a religious oversight or an invasion of personal space.

I wonder, if and when the facts are revealed, if they happen to not support each one of your presumptions, if you all will be brave enough to admit your bias and misguided claims to save what's really concerning everyone on here which is the town's reputation?

 Would you be offended if someone lifted your kilt? Is it as serious an offense as someone peeking under your yamaka? Should you be decapitated for touching some female’s hajib? Trumpenstein should be burned at the stake for holding the Bible upside down? Are the lights on in the park tonight?

Who else thinks CHTP is just a troll who doesn’t actually hold these opinions but rather is just trolling?   Maybe Strawberry is back with a new username.  

jeffl said:

Who else thinks CHTP is just a troll who doesn’t actually hold these opinions but rather is just trolling?   Maybe Strawberry is back with a new username.  

 He’s not Strawberry. Strawberry would be fully in defense of the teacher.  

the alleged victim's parent is engaging in discussion on it being a money grab and is foul mouthed.....kind of destroys her credibility...coupled with the kid jubilantly describing the incident while supposed devastated by the abuse......

insinuating the child was wearing a traditional head covering and the teacher is just yanking it off as if it was a baseball cap is a bad argument....the other side is that there is reason to believe she was wearing a hoodie....

jeffl said:

Who else thinks CHTP is just a troll who doesn’t actually hold these opinions but rather is just trolling?   Maybe Strawberry is back with a new username.  

 is there anyone who doesn't think that person is a troll?

Redfruit said:

jeffl said:

Who else thinks CHTP is just a troll who doesn’t actually hold these opinions but rather is just trolling?   Maybe Strawberry is back with a new username.  

 He’s not Strawberry. Strawberry would be fully in defense of the teacher.  

 Agree, he's not Strawberry.

Wait ... Redfruit, are you Strawberry?

Jaytee said:

 Would you be offended if someone lifted your kilt? Is it as serious an offense as someone peeking under your yamaka? Should you be decapitated for touching some female’s hajib? Trumpenstein should be burned at the stake for holding the Bible upside down? Are the lights on in the park tonight?

 Yes. Yes. No. Sure why not. Yes.

You forgot is the smallest free supermarket on Springfield Avenue open yet?  The little blue structure meant to save people from food insecurity.  For a solution to hunger, this is not moving very quickly.  In fact, it is not moving at all.  The answer is no.

flimbro said:

Exactly.

From the teacher:  “With her mask on, too, her whole face was covered. I gently got her attention by brushing up the front of her hood. The moment I realized she was not wearing her usual hijab underneath, she kept the hood on. And the learning went on.”

Anyone who has ever been tasked with putting a positive spin on a story that is not entirely complimentary recognizes the tactic being used here. You don't lift something by 'brushing up the front of it"- you lift it up or you don't lift it up - period. The remainder of the sentence- "The moment I realized she was not wearing her usual hijab underneath, she kept the hood on. And the learning went on.”, is meant to draw attention away from the fact that in order to see that she wasn't wearing her hijab, the "brushing up" had to actually be a lifting up of the garment- enough to expose her hair. Which is of course the problem.  Additionally, the phrase, "...she kept the hood on", is an attempt to describe a passive event ending the interaction, initiated by no one in particular. This sidesteps the obvious event which is that the teacher lifted the garment, realized her mistake, and replaced the garment (or had it replaced).

I've read all of the invective about how horrible a human being Ibtihaj Muhammad is, but that is always the case when her name is mentioned on this board for reasons I can only speculate about. I also see a lot of concern about the terrible life the teacher is destined for due to the event.  What I haven't seen, and maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen anyone writing about what this must have been like for a seven year old, nor have I seen anyone offer any information about why many Muslim women wear the hijab. I wonder how so many have missed the opportunity to delve into what is at once a religious imperative for some and for others a statement about agency and respect.  

And, as usual, cultural gaffes committed by white folks and familiar to many African Americans have gone unmentioned as well.  We, mostly African American women, have an ongoing battle with white people who routinely invade our personal space, standing too close, touching our person, and of course the cardinal sin- fondling our hair while marveling at styles that simply must be examined and explained on demand.

While I have my suspicions, I don't really know where this presumptuous freedom to examine and inspect comes from, but it is prevalent, and many African Americans will immediately assume that this belief that our bodies are open to inspection has something to do with the teacher's actions. In this case I'm sure the teacher who by all reports is perceptive and committed to her charges, was aware that the young girl wore a hijab on a daily basis. If this was in fact the case, then a conversation and request would seem to have been the best approach and not an attempt to touch the girl and remove an article of clothing that might be her hijab. 

EXACTLY!

Tall_Mocha said:

EXACTLY!

 Was it possible there might have been a hijab under the hoodie?

Online Furor Over a Student’s Hijab Engulfs a Liberal Town - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Online Furor Over a Student’s Hijab Engulfs a Liberal Town

A 7-year-old told her mother that she resisted a New Jersey teacher’s attempt to pull off her Muslim head covering. It spiraled from there.

From the NY Times article: 

The school district, Professor Costley White said, could have done more to defuse the situation by talking to the girl’s mother “as a person,” rather than quickly turning to the police and prosecutors.Had there been “just a little tiny bit of humanity,” she said, the girl’s mother “wouldn’t have felt like her only recourse was to share the story on social media.”

It's my understanding that the mom's livestream and fencer's social media posts were made less than 24 hours after the incident (maybe even the same day?). I thought the police got involved AFTER the social media posts, due in part to the terroristic threats to the teacher.

I'm the last person to defend the school district, but is this accurate? 

composerjohn said:

From the NY Times article: 

The school district, Professor Costley White said, could have done more to defuse the situation by talking to the girl’s mother “as a person,” rather than quickly turning to the police and prosecutors.Had there been “just a little tiny bit of humanity,” she said, the girl’s mother “wouldn’t have felt like her only recourse was to share the story on social media.”

It's my understanding that the mom's livestream and fencer's social media posts were made less than 24 hours after the incident (maybe even the same day?). I thought the police got involved AFTER the social media posts, due in part to the terroristic threats to the teacher.

I'm the last person to defend the school district, but is this accurate? 

 Yeah, that doesn't sound accurate. I think it was a couple of days at least before it was announced that the police were involved - well after the s.m. posts.

"Ms. Muhammad, who has written a memoir and a children’s book to inspire Muslim girls and started a clothing line, could not be reached for comment despite repeated attempts."

Has she said anything publicly since the allegation? Seems irresponsible to drop incendiary stuff on SM and then just disappear. The post may have well been about the weather or dinner that night, ie forget it and move on.

Smedley said:

"Ms. Muhammad, who has written a memoir and a children’s book to inspire Muslim girls and started a clothing line, could not be reached for comment despite repeated attempts."

Has she said anything publicly since the allegation? Seems irresponsible to drop incendiary stuff on SM and then just disappear. The post may have well been about the weather or dinner that night, ie forget it and move on.

She posted on Instagram yesterday.

ADDED: she didn't post about the incident. It was a separate topic. She seems to be actively choosing not to say anything. From a legal standpoint, that's probably the right move. From a moral perspective, I'd hope she'd want to help heal wounds and bring her hometown community together. The silence speaks volumes. 

nohero said:

Online Furor Over a Student’s Hijab Engulfs a Liberal Town - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Online Furor Over a Student’s Hijab Engulfs a Liberal Town

A 7-year-old told her mother that she resisted a New Jersey teacher’s attempt to pull off her Muslim head covering. It spiraled from there.

A big theme in the comments to this article -- "No wonder teachers are quitting" and "Why would anyone want to become a teacher these days?" Hard to disagree.

drummerboy said:

composerjohn said:

From the NY Times article: 

The school district, Professor Costley White said, could have done more to defuse the situation by talking to the girl’s mother “as a person,” rather than quickly turning to the police and prosecutors.Had there been “just a little tiny bit of humanity,” she said, the girl’s mother “wouldn’t have felt like her only recourse was to share the story on social media.”

It's my understanding that the mom's livestream and fencer's social media posts were made less than 24 hours after the incident (maybe even the same day?). I thought the police got involved AFTER the social media posts, due in part to the terroristic threats to the teacher.

I'm the last person to defend the school district, but is this accurate? 

 Yeah, that doesn't sound accurate. I think it was a couple of days at least before it was announced that the police were involved - well after the s.m. posts.

One can only wonder how much humanity Professor Costley White believes was offered when Ms. Muhammad published an incomplete story to her half a million followers,  allowing this teacher to be convicted in the court of public opinion.

The hypocrisy is incredible.   

Fact is, as I recall, district was directed by the police to withdraw.

The Professor seems a bit unclear on her facts - though that doesn't seem to have prevented her from  constructing a whole thing about it.