Serious Question: Is Trump a Nazi?
ml1 said:
maybe we need someone to post the definition of the word "ignorant."
Those that need it define it.
You're his shrink now?
shoshannah said:
algebra2 said:
Trump's daughter and top adviser is married to a Jew. Pretty much disqualifies him from being a Nazi.
This is seriously wrong. Having a Jewish daughter and in-laws does not by default make someone more sympathetic to Jews or rule out any possibility of being a Nazi. Many Nazis turned on their own relatives and friends in Nazi Germany. And this statement especially would not apply DJT. He is not principled or thoughtful. I would venture to say he does not care about his children as individual souls with inner lives and convictions. He only cares about them to the extent that they serve his needs.
Jackson_Fusion said:
ml1 said:
maybe we need someone to post the definition of the word "ignorant."
Those that need it define it.
+1
ml1 said:
maybe we need someone to post the definition of the word "ignorant."
Still trying to use 'definitions' as a means of ridicule? Doesn't work any more. Time to grow up sonny.
it seems a few of you are taking issue and perhaps think Donald Trump hasn't displayed much or any ignorance during the campaign. Latest Politifact score card has him at 71% for "false," "mostly false' or "pants on fire" statements. Making that volume of false statements suggests to me a person who doesn't know a whole lot on a wide array of topics. But of course YMMV. Perhaps some of you think he is intellectually curious, very well-informed, but he's just intentionally lying his face off.
Politicians lying?!?! Is nothing sacred anymore? Soon, dogs and cats will be living together!
Jackson_Fusion said:
ml1 said:
maybe we need someone to post the definition of the word "ignorant."
Those that need it define it.
Oh, snap!
BCC said:
Jackson_Fusion said:
ml1 said:
maybe we need someone to post the definition of the word "ignorant."
Those that need it define it.
+1
Really?
I do not understand the turn this discussion has taken. The problem with Trump is not that he is ignorant but that he spreads fear and exploits it and that he engages in racism and religious bigotry and condones and even encourages violence.
Trump thinks he is Hillary's physician.
Shoshannah is not the only Jew who sees Trump as a threat to the Jews. Given our history we get very nervous when any national, ethnic or religious group gets targeted.
algebra2 said:
You're his shrink now?
shoshannah said:
algebra2 said:
Trump's daughter and top adviser is married to a Jew. Pretty much disqualifies him from being a Nazi.
This is seriously wrong. Having a Jewish daughter and in-laws does not by default make someone more sympathetic to Jews or rule out any possibility of being a Nazi. Many Nazis turned on their own relatives and friends in Nazi Germany. And this statement especially would not apply DJT. He is not principled or thoughtful. I would venture to say he does not care about his children as individual souls with inner lives and convictions. He only cares about them to the extent that they serve his needs.
That was in my earlier post. I said he appeals to the worst of human nature (among other things). But some people who just like to argue took umbrage with the word ignorant. Trump is all of those things. A fear monger, as well as a person who doesn't appear to have bothered to learn even the most rudimentary aspects of being the president.
And I haven't seen anyone yet demonstrate that Trump possesses any intellectual curiosity or depth of knowledge outside of what he needs to know to run his businesses.
LOST said:
I do not understand the turn this discussion has taken. The problem with Trump is not that he is ignorant but that he spreads fear and exploits it and that he engages in racism and religious bigotry and condones and even encourages violence.
ml1 said:
That was in my earlier post. I said he appeals to the worst of human nature (among other things). But some people who just like to argue took umbrage with the word ignorant. Trump is all of those things. A fear monger, as well as a person who doesn't appear to have bothered to learn even the most rudimentary aspects of being the president.
And I haven't seen anyone yet demonstrate that Trump possesses any intellectual curiosity or depth of knowledge outside of what he needs to know to run his businesses.
LOST said:
I do not understand the turn this discussion has taken. The problem with Trump is not that he is ignorant but that he spreads fear and exploits it and that he engages in racism and religious bigotry and condones and even encourages violence.
Well, Hillary's entire campaign has been fear mongering the impact of a Trump presidency.... Which isn't helping all that much apparently...
https://www.yahoo.com/news/race-tightens-projected-u-electoral-college-vote-reuters-114535676.html
if I'm appealing to the worst of the worst, intentionally, and I speak in the coded language and dog whistle expressions that no one except insiders of the alt-right and those that monitor them, then in my opinion if I'm not a card carrying member,I'm a sympathizer.
Djt Jr. At the least is very aware of these terms and the fact that these types of people are his vocal supporters leads to this thread and this discussion.
Origins of the nazis and communists is not germane to the current situation.
Trump is surely a con who was born with a silver spoon to an overt racist. All you folks disavowing this possibility are doing so with blindfolds on.
shoshannah said:
algebra2 said:
Trump's daughter and top adviser is married to a Jew. Pretty much disqualifies him from being a Nazi.
This is seriously wrong. Having a Jewish daughter and in-laws does not by default make someone more sympathetic to Jews or rule out any possibility of being a Nazi. Many Nazis turned on their own relatives and friends in Nazi Germany. And this statement especially would not apply DJT. He is not principled or thoughtful. I would venture to say he does not care about his children as individual souls with inner lives and convictions. He only cares about them to the extent that they serve his need
As per this conversation, Yair Rosenberg wrote this far better than I can.
http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/212402/why-a-vote-for-trump-is-a-vote-for-mainstreaming-anti-semites
And here is the treatment of Jewish, mostly conservative journalists by some Trump supporters. He has not repudiated this, not even the lip service given the Obama's citizenship.
http://www.wnyc.org/story/trump-inspired-anti-semitism-spikes-prompting-conservative-writer-protect-herself-gun/
algebra2 said:
You're his shrink now?
shoshannah said:
algebra2 said:This is seriously wrong. Having a Jewish daughter and in-laws does not by default make someone more sympathetic to Jews or rule out any possibility of being a Nazi. Many Nazis turned on their own relatives and friends in Nazi Germany. And this statement especially would not apply DJT. He is not principled or thoughtful. I would venture to say he does not care about his children as individual souls with inner lives and convictions. He only cares about them to the extent that they serve his needs.
Trump's daughter and top adviser is married to a Jew. Pretty much disqualifies him from being a Nazi.
Sounds like you are defending DJT.
It doesn't take a graduate degree to see who he is. He displays his nature for all to see and experience. If we want to believe that he does not hate Jews, that is even more proof (as if we need any more) of how unprincipled he is—he courts rabid antisemites in service of winning the presidency and at the risk of putting his own daughter and in-laws in harms way.
This morning I woke up to a loud voice moving through the street screaming "The sky is falling !!"
I ran outside just in time to see a small man, maybe 4' 6" with a head 10 times normal size, slowly rising into the backlit morning clouds.
I thought to say something nasty until I realized he was just letting out hot air. It's nicer up there anyway.
ml1 said:
That was in my earlier post. I said he appeals to the worst of human nature (among other things). But some people who just like to argue took umbrage with the word ignorant. Trump is all of those things. A fear monger, as well as a person who doesn't appear to have bothered to learn even the most rudimentary aspects of being the president.
And I haven't seen anyone yet demonstrate that Trump possesses any intellectual curiosity or depth of knowledge outside of what he needs to know to run his businesses.
LOST said:
I do not understand the turn this discussion has taken. The problem with Trump is not that he is ignorant but that he spreads fear and exploits it and that he engages in racism and religious bigotry and condones and even encourages violence.
Your answer to LOST was no answer.
It should be obvious, even to you, being a fear monger doesn't make you ignorant. (see Hillary's campaign)
Nor does lying (see Hillary and e-mails)
Nor does appealing to the worst of human nature.
They may make you a number of things, things which I do not like, but ignorant is not one of them, which is
why I will not vote for either of them.
Jackson_Fusion said:
Well, Hillary's entire campaign has been fear mongering the impact of a Trump presidency.... Which isn't helping all that much apparently...
Yes. I have been disappointed that HRC's campaign seems to be a story of attacking Trump rather than presenting her ideas. This may be, in part, a press slant, but I have always believed that she needs to run a strong campaign focused on her policy ideas.
tjohn said:
about how a candidate should run
Jackson_Fusion said:
Well, Hillary's entire campaign has been fear mongering the impact of a Trump presidency.... Which isn't helping all that much apparently...
Yes. I have been disappointed that HRC's campaign seems to be a story of attacking Trump rather than presenting her ideas. This may be, in part, a press slant, but I have always believed that she needs to run a strong campaign focused on her policy ideas.
Fearing a Trump Presidency makes sense to me.
Almost all candidates for office will run, at least in part, on fear of the other candidate.
Hillary's strategy is to paint Trump as completely unacceptable. It's based on the fact that many Republicans find him unacceptable. At the very beginning of the campaign the previous Republican Presidential Candidate, Romney, said he could not vote for Trump. Running on policy ideas can place Trump on an equal level. It can push reluctant Republicans back into the Trump camp.
To have a discussion on MOL we have to express our ideas as to what a candidate should do. But we should not assume that we know more than the professionals.
tjohn said:
Jackson_Fusion said:
Well, Hillary's entire campaign has been fear mongering the impact of a Trump presidency.... Which isn't helping all that much apparently...
Yes. I have been disappointed that HRC's campaign seems to be a story of attacking Trump rather than presenting her ideas. This may be, in part, a press slant, but I have always believed that she needs to run a strong campaign focused on her policy ideas.
tjohn, Would running that way, by focusing on policy issues rather than on Trump, make you more or less likely to vote for her? Would it even make a difference?
Would it make some like Jackson_Fusion more or less likely to vote for her? Would it make him more or less likely to vote for Trump?
LOST said:
tjohn said:
Jackson_Fusion said:
Well, Hillary's entire campaign has been fear mongering the impact of a Trump presidency.... Which isn't helping all that much apparently...
Yes. I have been disappointed that HRC's campaign seems to be a story of attacking Trump rather than presenting her ideas. This may be, in part, a press slant, but I have always believed that she needs to run a strong campaign focused on her policy ideas.
tjohn, Would running that way, by focusing on policy issues rather than on Trump, make you more or less likely to vote for her? Would it even make a difference?
Would it make some like Jackson_Fusion more or less likely to vote for her? Would it make him more or less likely to vote for Trump?
No, there is nothing that would make be not vote for Clinton when the alternative is Trump. I am speculating, however, that there are still people trying to make up their minds.
BCC said:A better discussion would be - did Trump, who until recently was a NY Democrat, really 'evolve' into a Republican, or is he really a con man who was smart enough to tap into a vein of anger at both parties which has him now in a position of possibly being our next President.
I totally agree with this, and have from the beginning. And it's the argument I use whenever I run into a Trump supporter (more and more lately -- people I don't even know start trumpeting about Trump) -- I fear his followers a lot more than I fear him. They are the ones falling for this huckster who doesn't believe in the tripe he spews every minute.
tjohn said:
Jackson_Fusion said:
Well, Hillary's entire campaign has been fear mongering the impact of a Trump presidency.... Which isn't helping all that much apparently...
Yes. I have been disappointed that HRC's campaign seems to be a story of attacking Trump rather than presenting her ideas. This may be, in part, a press slant, but I have always believed that she needs to run a strong campaign focused on her policy ideas.
I agree, but all of the Republicans that ran with Trump were all criticized for not standing up to him from the beginning, in particular Jeb! I think her ad campaign is the only way she can go: hang him with his own words. No, she won't be changing any Trumpsters' minds, but it has to be said. She's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't.
What is hurting her most is the years of lies and slander that, obviously, has stuck so strongly in the public's minds. And no amount of campaign strategy can change that.
tjohn said:
No, there is nothing that would make be not vote for Clinton when the alternative is Trump. I am speculating, however, that there are still people trying to make up their minds.
What more would anyone need to know about the two candidates to make up their minds? It's not like these too are unknown. They are better known to the public than the two Major Party candidates for President in my memory.
The people who are undecided are mostly undecided between Clinton and voting for a Third Party or not voting at all, INHO.
I'm wondering to what degree some version of the "Bradley effect" may be at work in this election. I realize it's not definitively the same (black/white) but I think there are those who wouldn't admit to voting for Trump or those who wouldn't admit to voting for HRC.
I think there are many more who wouldn't admit to voting for Trump and I find that very unsettling. While I don't think Bernie could win, any credible mainstream democrat should've had a cakewalk this year.
algebra2 said:
You're his shrink now?
shoshannah said:
algebra2 said:
Trump's daughter and top adviser is married to a Jew. Pretty much disqualifies him from being a Nazi.
This is seriously wrong. Having a Jewish daughter and in-laws does not by default make someone more sympathetic to Jews or rule out any possibility of being a Nazi. Many Nazis turned on their own relatives and friends in Nazi Germany. And this statement especially would not apply DJT. He is not principled or thoughtful. I would venture to say he does not care about his children as individual souls with inner lives and convictions. He only cares about them to the extent that they serve his needs.
Trump is racist, but I don't think that all racists should be considered Nazis. To call Trump a Nazi, when there are so many differences between Trumpism and Nazism, is an expansion of the definition of "Nazism" and declarification of the word that would make it a less meaningful.
To talk just of Antisemitism, Hitler and the Nazis had a kind of Antisemitism that hadn't existed even forty years previously, ie, a reading of history where Jews were hidden, central actors and were committed to the downfall of European civilization. Trump has never said anything like this.
Trumpism doesn't really have any articulated demonology of "cosmopolitans" and internationalists. I think he has accused the UN of being wasteful, but he doesn't claim that it's controlling the United States. Donald Trump's condemnations of finance (ie, Wall Street) are a lot less frequent than Sanders' and Clinton's.
Nazi Antisemitism was also part of a racial hierarchy, where "Aryan" whites were at the top and other groups filled in tiers below. Although Trump said "Mexico was sending drug dealers and rapists" to the US, Trump hasn't promoted the idea of a racial hierarchy. He has even defended race-based affirmative action.
And I think the marriage of Donald's favorite child, Ivanka, to Jared Kushner and conversion to Judaism are relevant regarding Antisemitism.. Donald Trump actually has a good line about Ivanka's conversion. He has said "it wasn't part of the plan, but he was are very happy it happened." Would a Nazi say that?
So call Donald Trump racist, call him xenophobic, call him a scumbag, but I don't think "Nazi" is accurate.
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maybe we need someone to post the definition of the word "ignorant."