Ryan Lochte is NOT a kid

I find it interesting (and troubling) that some of the people here defending the anti-Israel postings (nohero, hoops) have been some of the most vocal against other racist comments in the past.  So, apologies for the thread-drift, but I wonder if these same people also approve of the anti-Israel position of "Black Lives Matter", accusing Israel of "genocide" and calling for a Boycott of Israel?  

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/11/black-lives-matters-movement-palestine-platform-israel-critics

michaelgoldberg said:

I find it interesting (and troubling) that some of the people here defending the anti-Israel postings (nohero, hoops) have been some of the most vocal against other racist comments in the past.  So, apologies for the thread-drift, but I wonder if these same people also approve of the anti-Israel position of "Black Lives Matter", accusing Israel of "genocide" and calling for a Boycott of Israel?  

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/11/black-lives-matters-movement-palestine-platform-israel-critics

Three thoughts.

1.  The quoted post contains this language - "I find it interesting (and troubling) that some of the people here defending the anti-Israel postings (nohero, hoops) have been some of the most vocal against other racist comments in the past."  That indicates that what are referred to as the "anti-Israel postings" are considered anti-Semitic by the accusers - otherwise why refer to "other racist comments".

2.  My comments (and I presume those of Mr. Hoops) are objections to the labeling and accusations, which I know I've made clear in prior posts on this thread.

3.  I do not have to justify myself in response to Mr. Golberg's language, or respond to insinuations about my character.

Nice attempt to avoid the question by going on attack.

broigus said:

Nice attempt to avoid the question by going on attack.

And, I don't have to justify myself to you or to any of the other screen personas with which you haunt this message board.

I've read her tweets.  If they were interspersed with references to Palestinian terrorist actions would the tweets taken as a whole be anti Israel?  If someone calls out the behavior of a country are they 'anti' that country?

broigus said:

Nice attempt to avoid the question by going on attack.

This ^^^^^

The correct answer is "I wholeheartedly condemn the anti-Israel rhetoric being spread by Ms. Muhammad and Black Lives Matter."

flimbro said:

Since we're 'imagining' things, I'd like to imagine that she'd laugh in your face for imagining that she owes you any explanation for anything- ever and then I'd like to imagine that she'd go full Zorro and ventilate your jeans as you scream and run back to the car trying to imagine what the hell you were thinking.

This.

michaelgoldberg said:

broigus said:

Nice attempt to avoid the question by going on attack.

This ^^^^^

What question?? Is it that you and Michael Goldberg are a couple of shrill, haters? To that, the answer seems obvious.

On August 12, in response to a non-political post on the "Swap SOMa Lounge" Facebook group, Mr. Goldberg posted the same sort of accusations as he has posted here.  He immediately received this reply:

"Please put the pitchforks away. She retweeted stories shared on mainstream media. I have many Jewish American friends who would not disagree. This right wing news source call her an anti-Semite. I will tell you first-hand that this is a lie. They do not know her personally, I do--like family. If you disagree with her views on Israel, that is your right. But, please don't paint her to be something that she's not."

https://www.facebook.com/groups/SOMabusinessfriends/permalink/857772287688876/?comment_id=857790161020422&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D

There were additional comments disagreeing with Mr. Goldberg.  Mr. Goldberg has stated, also on Facebook:

"I knew nothing about her, but when I saw her anti-Israel comments, she immediately was disqualified in my opinion for being 'representative of our community'. "

https://www.facebook.com/groups/SOMabusinessfriends/permalink/855592057906899/?comment_id=857777927688312&reply_comment_id=857828797683225&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R5%22%7D

That comment came amid a flurry of others disagreeing strongly with his characterizations.

So, when given the choice between comments from people who know her, and one who says, "I knew nothing about her", I'll go with those who know her.

Characterizations? Accusations?  I love your choice of language, as if her Tweets were not written by her and still in existence.  Have you even read them?  You defend that language and the recent BLM platform?

michaelgoldberg said:

I find it interesting (and troubling) that some of the people here defending the anti-Israel postings (nohero, hoops) have been some of the most vocal against other racist comments in the past.  So, apologies for the thread-drift, but I wonder if these same people also approve of the anti-Israel position of "Black Lives Matter", accusing Israel of "genocide" and calling for a Boycott of Israel?  

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/11/black-lives-matters-movement-palestine-platform-israel-critics

Anti-Israel positions are neither by default anti-Semitic nor racist, so your contrast is invalid.

Dragging in the black lives matter platform is an attempt at deflection so excuse me if I do not excuse your thread drift.

I guess Michael is never critical of anything our government does at any level ---  (rolling my eyes)

I think we have our answer. Nohero and Dennis_Seelbach and mjh and flimbro and others here are all supporters of BDS

broigus said:

I think we have our answer. Nohero and Dennis_Seelbach and mjh and flimbro and others here are all supporters of BDS

Nice attempt to avoid the question by going on attack.

michaelgoldberg said:

Characterizations? Accusations?  I love your choice of language, as if her Tweets were not written by her and still in existence.  Have you even read them?  You defend that language and the recent BLM platform?

Have you?  Most are factually correct and often taken from (and directly linked to) articles from the main stream media.

max_weisenfeld said:

broigus said:

I think we have our answer. Nohero and Dennis_Seelbach and mjh and flimbro and others here are all supporters of BDS

Nice attempt to avoid the question by going on attack.

Well if someone can not condemn it, then they support it.

broigus said:

max_weisenfeld said:

broigus said:

I think we have our answer. Nohero and Dennis_Seelbach and mjh and flimbro and others here are all supporters of BDS

Nice attempt to avoid the question by going on attack.

Well if someone can not condemn it, then they support it.

Not really, no.

.

broigus said:

max_weisenfeld said:

broigus said:

I think we have our answer. Nohero and Dennis_Seelbach and mjh and flimbro and others here are all supporters of BDS

Nice attempt to avoid the question by going on attack.

Well if someone can not condemn it, then they support it.

It depends on what "it" is. You have yet to define that.

michaelgoldberg said:

max_weisenfeld said:

michaelgoldberg said:

Characterizations? Accusations?  I love your choice of language, as if her Tweets were not written by her and still in existence.  Have you even read them?  You defend that language and the recent BLM platform?

Have you?  Most are factually correct and often taken from (and directly linked to) articles from the main stream media.

You have answered my question that you support her anti-Israel rhetoric.

I certainly support her right to re-tweet articles from the New York Times that are critical of the Israeli government, and I do agree with many of them.  

What I don't agree with are your attempts to repress speech and impose a pro-Israel litmus test on any and every public figure, and to use that test to denigrate her character.  Your behavior is un-American.

max_weisenfeld said:

What I don't agree with are your attempts to repress speech and impose a pro-Israel litmus test on any and every public figure, and to use that test to denigrate her character.  Your behavior is un-American.

Who knew that freedom of speech only applied to bigots?  You and Ms Muhammad are free to spew whatever rhetoric you want.  But I also have the right to speak out against it.

I didn't see any tweets accusing Israel of "genocide." And admittedly I didn't read every article she linked to, but I didn't see that in any of the news stories either. The strongest words in anything I read were in a news story she linked to, in which a UN human rights investigator accused Israel of "ethnic cleansing."  That investigator, Richard Falk is by the way a U.S. citizen, and he's Jewish.

Dennis_Seelbach said:

broigus said:

max_weisenfeld said:

broigus said:

I think we have our answer. Nohero and Dennis_Seelbach and mjh and flimbro and others here are all supporters of BDS

Nice attempt to avoid the question by going on attack.

Well if someone can not condemn it, then they support it.

It depends on what "it" is. You have yet to define that.

It was defined in this context as BDS.

michaelgoldberg said:

I find it interesting (and troubling) that some of the people here defending the anti-Israel postings (nohero, hoops) have been some of the most vocal against other racist comments in the past.  So, apologies for the thread-drift, but I wonder if these same people also approve of the anti-Israel position of "Black Lives Matter", accusing Israel of "genocide" and calling for a Boycott of Israel?  

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/11/black-lives-matters-movement-palestine-platform-israel-critics

i find it interesting that someones point of view about another individual can be so tainted by one tweet out of a hundred.   All you need do if you want to know her character better is to read the other tweets to get it.   

I'm a humanist, I don't care if an atrocity is caused or enacted by anyone under guise of religion, state or personal, I will be alarmed and critical of the perpetrator.  If the Israeli government are killing innocent people under the guise of defense and causing the misery of many then they deserve to be criticized. Same goes for any country, including the USA.   

We share a humanity and if you can't find the empathy to see that in a given circumstance their misery could be your misery then we can't find common ground.   

I haven't read that link and will not, its unimportant.  If you want to discuss black lives matter, start another thread, this thread was supposed to be about the idiocy of Ryan Lochte before you hijacked it to paint Ibtihaj Muhammad as some sort of vile anti-semite.  

michaelgoldberg said:

Characterizations? Accusations?  I love your choice of language, as if her Tweets were not written by her and still in existence.  Have you even read them?  You defend that language and the recent BLM platform?

As mentioned earlier, I did read the tweets.  I'll add that I read them for what they were, did not bring preconceived notions into my reading.

Meanwhile, on Facebook, Mr.  Goldberg edited his accusations from "anti-Semitic" to "anti-Israel" after some pushback.  The responses make it clear what the original text was.  So, my "choice of language" is based on the fact that accusations of anti-Semitism were made - and no doubt are still intended, as is clear from the prior posts in this thread.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/SOMabusinessfriends/permalink/855592057906899/?comment_id=857777927688312&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D

Finally, I wouldn't have mentioned any of the Facebook stuff, except for the comments directed against people who disagreed with Messrs. Goldberg and Broigus.

By the way, I actually came here to congratulate the companies that reacted so swiftly by pulling their sponsorships and condemning Ryan Lochte's lying.

nohero - You can (and clearly will) make whatever assumptions you like.

I'm done here for the day.  Off to the Springsteen concert.  Maybe I'll see you there.  ;-)

Lots of posts. No one willing yet to disavow BDS. Very telling.

michaelgoldberg said:

You can (and clearly will) make whatever assumptions you like.

About Ryan Lochte?