Ryan Lochte is NOT a kid

broigus said:


There was a thread on the subject. It got pulled and I got banned for starting it. So what was Michael to do to get the issue raised except try to tack it onto another thread?

Odd definition of "banned" since here you are, but perhaps this deserves its own thread.


Hey guys, what's going on? I kind of thought this Lochte thing would have blown over by now, but there are so many new posts, did something new happen?

**reads thread**

**runs**


"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."  Or in this case, a sabre.  Why don't you two (MG and Broigus) just go post in All Politics?  There are plenty of threads about Israel there.  No one is interested in your bashing on this thread, but the two of you.


In my experience, this sort of rabid, unexamined support for Israel--at all costs and in the face of any criticism, no matter how reasoned--is generational and is fading fast. Younger people, both inside Israel and without, are way more open to the idea that not everything is black and white and the Israeli government has sometimes acted reprehensibly. It shouldn't surprise anyone that there are a whole lot of people in our community who feel that way, myself very much included. The idea that any criticism of Israel is either anti-Semitic or even anti-Israel is absurd and should be strongly resisted by anyone who values basic human rights. 


Jamie/Dave, can we get a "like" button on the new MOL? 

imonlysleeping said:

In my experience, this sort of rabid, unexamined support for Israel--at all costs and in the face of any criticism, no matter how reasoned--is generational and is fading fast. Younger people, both inside Israel and without, are way more open to the idea that not everything is black and white and the Israeli government has sometimes acted reprehensibly. It shouldn't surprise anyone that there are a whole lot of people in our community who feel that way, myself very much included. The idea that any criticism of Israel is either anti-Semitic or even anti-Israel is absurd and should be strongly resisted by anyone who values basic human rights. 

michaelgoldberg said:

nohero - You can (and clearly will) make whatever assumptions you like.

I'm done here for the day.  Off to the Springsteen concert.  Maybe I'll see you there.  ;-)

I'm not making "assumptions".  People replying to your comments (obviously before you edited the several of them from "anti-Semitic" to "anti-Israel")wrote:

"I don't see an example of anti-Semitism. Ibti retweeted articles from reputable newspapers that you disagree with."

"just saw this thread. Please stop calling her an anti-semite! I speak from personal experience. What do you know?"

"Having a opinion that critiques Israel is a long distance from being anti-Semitic. It's a disservice to people facing true anti-semitism to assert that they're the same."

"Not anti-Semitic."

"Are you kidding!? So your saying she can't disagree with a regime??? That makes her anti Semitic?"

And, a full dictionary definition of the term -

"From Merriam-Webster 'Full Definition of anti–Semitism: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group'.  Sharing articles critical of the policies of Israel doesn't seem to fit the definition. There are many people and, at times our own government, who question the policies and practices of Israel. Is the US government anti-Semitic? Jewish Americans who want to see change? Israelis who want to see change?"

So, it's not so much an assumption as seeing what's obvious, with respect to what you wrote before you changed it.  Your attempts to pretend otherwise are contradicted by the evidence.

I'm surprised you're going to a Springsteen concert, if you're so concerned that people condemn Black Lives Matter.  Maybe you just want to "boo" if he plays "American Skin".


flimbro said:
Jackson_Fusion said:
conandrob240 said:

Crazy thought- since so many people know her, why not just ask her why she posted what she did and what her thoughts are about it now? 

That would be excellent. Can someone who knows her set that up? Would settle any outstanding issue, and I would imagine she would want to set the record straight. 

Since we're 'imagining' things, I'd like to imagine that she'd laugh in your face for imagining that she owes you any explanation for anything- ever and then I'd like to imagine that she'd go full Zorro and ventilate your jeans as you scream and run back to the car trying to imagine what the hell you were thinking.

Well! I wasn't the one that brought it up but I'm the one starring in your daydream? Sadly, this will remain in the same overflowing bucket as the rest of your cartoonishly um....specific? yet impotent, fantasies. oh oh

In any case, she's a public figure for now, making public statements about an issue on a platform with hundreds of millions of users- so she obviously wants people to see it. She can say or not say whatever she likes, and people can draw whatever conclusions they like- but she put it out there. 

A lot is being made over one tweet. It is indeed a contentious issue and may have hit a chord, based on the reaction here, that was not at all intended. 140 characters or less doesn't make for nuance. The story is out there, it seems, and the whole thing gets settled one way or the other if she were to choose to comment on it. 


with all the complaints about the chilling effects of "PC," very few people note the degree to which many folks feel they need to keep their thoughts to themselves about Israel. It appears that anything short of 100% support of the government of Israel at all times leaves one open to accusations of anti-Semitism.


There is a big difference between opposing policy and spreading lies about opening dams or committing genocide. 

There is a big difference between opposing policy and supporting BDS.  And now I need to assume you all support it since none of you have been willing to disavow it. 


RobB said:

Hey guys, what's going on? I kind of thought this Lochte thing would have blown over by now, but there are so many new posts, did something new happen?

**reads thread**

**runs**

Strupp yourself in and keep both arms inside the vehicle at all times


you keep saying Ms. Muhammed made accusations of "genocide." I didn't see that anywhere in her tweets.  


"violent, yet impotent, revenge fantasies?" Hell, I gotta go back and review my posts.

I just thought the image of you wagging your finger at an Olympian with a sword whilst in your dad jeans and Target running shoes was funny. 


ml1 said:

you keep saying Ms. Muhammed made accusations of "genocide." I didn't see that anywhere in her tweets.  

It was a Tweet of a Bolivian government declaration that Isreal had committed genocide. 


BDS is horrible... does that make you feel better Broigus?  

Still has nothing to do with anything.  What is telling how quickly you and Michael attack a muslim female in a thread that had nothing to do with her.    Very Trump like.  


flimbro said:

"violent, yet impotent, revenge fantasies?" Hell, I gotta go back and review my posts.

I just thought the image of you wagging your finger at an Olympian with a sword whilst in your dad jeans and Target running shoes was funny. 

Well, it will surprise no one reading this thread with even the slightest ability to comprehend and retain to hear that- shocker- I didn't comment on what she said other than second the suggestion that clarification would settle the issue.   

Ah, yet another group from which you find yourself excluded.

But I am delighted that fantasing about what I might be wagging and wearing brought a smile to a face that has precious little, it seems, to smile about.


mikescott said:

BDS is horrible... does that make you feel better Broigus?  


Well that's one. Which is good. But it still leaves a surprising number of BDS supporters here. 


Jackson_Fusion said:
flimbro said:

"violent, yet impotent, revenge fantasies?" Hell, I gotta go back and review my posts.

I just thought the image of you wagging your finger at an Olympian with a sword whilst in your dad jeans and Target running shoes was funny. 

Well, it will surprise no one reading this thread with even the slightest ability to comprehend and retain to hear that- shocker- I didn't comment on what she said other than second the suggestion that clarification would settle the issue.   

Ah, yet another group from which you find yourself excluded.

But I am delighted that fantasing about what I might be wagging and wearing brought a smile to a face that has precious little, it seems, to smile about.

Um, I'm guessing you don't you know you're talking about an Olympic Saber Fencer?  That was the key to the joke. It's funny within that context.  I can see how it might seem strangely violent and specific if you didn't know that.


sprout said:
Jackson_Fusion said:
flimbro said:

"violent, yet impotent, revenge fantasies?" Hell, I gotta go back and review my posts.

I just thought the image of you wagging your finger at an Olympian with a sword whilst in your dad jeans and Target running shoes was funny. 

Well, it will surprise no one reading this thread with even the slightest ability to comprehend and retain to hear that- shocker- I didn't comment on what she said other than second the suggestion that clarification would settle the issue.   

Ah, yet another group from which you find yourself excluded.

But I am delighted that fantasing about what I might be wagging and wearing brought a smile to a face that has precious little, it seems, to smile about.

Um, I'm guessing you don't you know you're talking about an Olympic Saber Fencer?  That was the key to the joke. It's funny within that context.  I can see how it might seem strangely violent and specific if you didn't know that.

Is it her habit to use her sabRE (isn't the British spelling used?) in anger to remove people's clothes and force them to flee in fear? If so the questions being asked here are a total sideshow- we have more pressing issues that need be addressed!

TIA!


What do I know? I only ever used Foil.  Then I met my spouse when I ventilated his shirt:



broigus said:
ml1 said:

you keep saying Ms. Muhammed made accusations of "genocide." I didn't see that anywhere in her tweets.  

It was a Tweet of a Bolivian government declaration that Isreal had committed genocide. 

I'm still not seeing an accusation of genocide.  It's a Yahoo news article.  This is the entire thing:

La Paz (AFP) - Bolivia on Wednesday renounced a visa exemption agreement with Israel in protest over its offensive in Gaza, and declared it a terrorist state.
President Evo Morales announced the move during a talk with a group of educators in the city of Cochabamba.
It "means, in other words, we are declaring (Israel) a terrorist state," he said.
The treaty has allowed Israelis to travel freely to Bolivia without a visa since 1972.
Morales said the Gaza offensive shows "that Israel is not a guarantor of the principles of respect for life and the elementary precepts of rights that govern the peaceful and harmonious coexistence of our international community."
More than two weeks of fighting in Gaza have left 1,300 dead and 6,000 wounded amid an intense Israeli air and ground campaign in response to missile attacks by the Islamist militant group Hamas.
In the latest development, 16 people were killed after two Israeli shells slammed into a United Nations school, drawing international protests.
Bolivia broke off diplomatic relations with Israel in 2009 over a previous military operation in Gaza.
In mid-July, Morales filed a request with the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights to prosecute Israel for "crimes against humanity."



The headline as showing in Twitter has "Genocide" and "Israel" in it. 


broigus said:

The headline as showing in Twitter has "Genocide" and "Israel" in it. 

say what?


I actually was just coming in to say I looked again and I was wrong about that. But what is there is not acceptable or true. Israel and terrorism is almost as bad as Israel and genocide.


it was BLM that accused Israel of genocide


So many lies about Israel circulating it is hard to keep all the nuances straight.


seriously?  you think terrorism and genocide are almost equally bad?

broigus said:

I actually was just coming in to say I looked again and I was wrong about that. But what is there is not acceptable or true. Israel and terrorism is almost as bad as Israel and genocide.

BDS?   I didnt know anything about it so I googled

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott,_Divestment_and_Sanctions

seems like a very good way to get across their message.  i dont know enough about it to either support or reject it but on face value it seems to be similar to protests against apartheid in South Africa and as such I would think its a good strategy.

  


Jackson_Fusion said:

But I am delighted that fantasing about what I might be wagging and wearing brought a smile to a face that has precious little, it seems, to smile about.

Never met flimbro, but I imagine only a handful of people on MOL enjoy a laugh as much as he.


sprout said:
Jackson_Fusion said:
flimbro said:

"violent, yet impotent, revenge fantasies?" Hell, I gotta go back and review my posts.

I just thought the image of you wagging your finger at an Olympian with a sword whilst in your dad jeans and Target running shoes was funny. 

Well, it will surprise no one reading this thread with even the slightest ability to comprehend and retain to hear that- shocker- I didn't comment on what she said other than second the suggestion that clarification would settle the issue.   

Ah, yet another group from which you find yourself excluded.

But I am delighted that fantasing about what I might be wagging and wearing brought a smile to a face that has precious little, it seems, to smile about.

Um, I'm guessing you don't you know you're talking about an Olympic Saber Fencer?  That was the key to the joke. It's funny within that context.  I can see how it might seem strangely violent and specific if you didn't know that.

Except that a fencing sabre wouldn't "ventilate" anything.  It might leave a nasty welt but I suppose that wouldn't be funny, or maybe it would to some people. 


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