Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine

jamie said:

Again you seem to not understand the concept of denazifaction - it's on all the putin press releases - you still haven't told me how it's measured and how they can tell nazi from non-nazi.  We'll go no where until proper denazification takes place.

It turns out that all the Nazis that Garland Nixon and the other "sources" spotted were in Russia all along.


Could be nan talking: 

"Peskov added that "it is these unfortunate politicians who now make their citizens die of strokes when they see electricity bills." “And now, when it gets colder, the situation will become even worse,” Peskov said."

https://meduza.io/news/2022/09/04/v-kremle-zayavili-chto-evrosoyuz-sam-vinovat-v-ostanovke-severnogo-potoka


drummerboy said:

nan said:

drummerboy said:

nohero said:

Governments taking action, but not the “Leave Russia Alone” kind.

“The German government is to impose a windfall tax on electricity producers and use the proceeds to finance a new €65bn package of relief measures to soften the blow of soaring inflation and higher energy bills.”

https://www.ft.com/content/bb58922d-2a40-4aa8-8844-9295c831fc22

Just like the EU provided financial relief during the pandemic, they can do the same here.

Though maybe not enough to keep the swimming pools heated and the pubs open an extra hour.

There won't be any swimming pools or pubs if this goes on for five to ten years. 

can't go on that long because Russia will be an economic basket case by then.

Russia is doing fine.  Europe and the US are in trouble. 


nan said:

Russia is doing fine.  Europe and the US are in trouble. 

The article in "The Sun" - Russia is heavily subsidizing consumer goods now, but long-term economic prospects are not good.

Welcome to sanction-hit Russia, where prices are DOWN as Brits suffer from soaring inflation | The Sun


nan said:

drummerboy said:

nan said:

drummerboy said:

nohero said:

Governments taking action, but not the “Leave Russia Alone” kind.

“The German government is to impose a windfall tax on electricity producers and use the proceeds to finance a new €65bn package of relief measures to soften the blow of soaring inflation and higher energy bills.”

https://www.ft.com/content/bb58922d-2a40-4aa8-8844-9295c831fc22

Just like the EU provided financial relief during the pandemic, they can do the same here.

Though maybe not enough to keep the swimming pools heated and the pubs open an extra hour.

There won't be any swimming pools or pubs if this goes on for five to ten years. 

can't go on that long because Russia will be an economic basket case by then.

Russia is doing fine.  Europe and the US are in trouble. 

You can't possibly take seriously someone whose online alias is Dagny Taggart, can you? Who's next - Francisco d'Anconia?


nohero said:

nan said:

Russia is doing fine.  Europe and the US are in trouble. 

The article in "The Sun" - Russia is heavily subsidizing consumer goods now, but long-term economic prospects are not good.

Welcome to sanction-hit Russia, where prices are DOWN as Brits suffer from soaring inflation | The Sun

I think that's more wishful thinking.  They are quoting:

Tom Tugendhat, the chairman of the Foreign Affairs select committee, said it showed why the West must stay united and face down Putin.

He told The Sun on Sunday: “Putin has been waging physical war against Ukraine and economic war against the rest of us.

“He is using the money British households are paying in extra fuel costs to subsidise prices in Russia, and holding us all hostage to his dictatorship.

They want people to feel like it's only going to be a bit before Russia falls.  Shows the real reason for this war.  They want people to think Putin is directly taking money out of their pockets to give to Russians.  

That's not real. 

I don't think we should be thinking that Russia is going to fall apart.  I think we should think more about if Europe and the US are going to fall apart.  Especially since they are already working on the next war when this one is not nearly finished. 


drummerboy said:

nan said:

drummerboy said:

nan said:

drummerboy said:

nohero said:

Governments taking action, but not the “Leave Russia Alone” kind.

“The German government is to impose a windfall tax on electricity producers and use the proceeds to finance a new €65bn package of relief measures to soften the blow of soaring inflation and higher energy bills.”

https://www.ft.com/content/bb58922d-2a40-4aa8-8844-9295c831fc22

Just like the EU provided financial relief during the pandemic, they can do the same here.

Though maybe not enough to keep the swimming pools heated and the pubs open an extra hour.

There won't be any swimming pools or pubs if this goes on for five to ten years. 

can't go on that long because Russia will be an economic basket case by then.

Russia is doing fine.  Europe and the US are in trouble. 

You can't possibly take seriously someone whose online alias is Dagny Taggart, can you? Who's next - Francisco d'Anconia?

Other people posted that as well.  I just copied the first one I came to.  I don't follow that person. 


nan said:

nohero said:

nan said:

Russia is doing fine.  Europe and the US are in trouble. 

The article in "The Sun" - Russia is heavily subsidizing consumer goods now, but long-term economic prospects are not good.

Welcome to sanction-hit Russia, where prices are DOWN as Brits suffer from soaring inflation | The Sun

I think that's more wishful thinking.  They are quoting:

Tom Tugendhat, the chairman of the Foreign Affairs select committee, said it showed why the West must stay united and face down Putin.

He told The Sun on Sunday: “Putin has been waging physical war against Ukraine and economic war against the rest of us.

“He is using the money British households are paying in extra fuel costs to subsidise prices in Russia, and holding us all hostage to his dictatorship.

They want people to feel like it's only going to be a bit before Russia falls.  Shows the real reason for this war.  They want people to think Putin is directly taking money out of their pockets to give to Russians.  

That's not real. 

I don't think we should be thinking that Russia is going to fall apart.  I think we should think more about if Europe and the US are going to fall apart.  Especially since they are already working on the next war when this one is not nearly finished. 

It's the entire article, with all of the facts that underlie the chart your "source" excerpted, with background details about Russia heavily subsidizing consumer goods in the short term.

By the way, what about that piece of sh_t Garland Nixon tweet you shared?


nohero said:

Here's the original photo.

By the way, it's a Russian Imperial Flag - File:Flag of the Russian Empire (black-yellow-white).svg

The bottom does not match the bottom of the statue.  It might be photoshopped but then so is the one supposedly in Russia.  


drummerboy said:

You can't possibly take seriously someone whose online alias is Dagny Taggart, can you? Who's next - Francisco d'Anconia?

Andre La Plume


OK, now they are saying that there were 100,000 people at the  Czech Republic protest.


100,000 people protesting Putin's war and just want him to stop.   Nice 


sbenois said:

100,000 people protesting Putin's war and just want him to stop.   Nice 

They are protesting their own government and the EU and they are against Russian sanctions.  Not big fans of proxy wars either. 

Putin is not their problem. 


They are protesting the impact of Putin's war on their country.  Good for them that they are out there calling for him to leave Ukraine.   


sbenois said:

They are protesting the impact of Putin's war on their country.  Good for them that they are out there calling for him to leave Ukraine.   

Unlike you, they understand the whole proxy war thing and how they are being screwed by their own government. Study hard; you might catch up. 


Congratulations to their government for standing with the people of Ukraine.   


nan said:

Unlike you, they understand the whole proxy war thing and how they are being screwed by their own government. Study hard; you might catch up. 

Putin's wants Ukraine - Ukraine doesn't want Putin.  The world doesn't want to be bullied by one guy who wants to with hold gas from the places he hates - while he denazifies a country by decimating it and wiping it off the face of the worth.  Why don't you understand this?  What do you think Vlad would be happy with - what has he been saying lately that would at least call for a ceasefire?

Putin's goal was to disrupt the west - and he did - you I know must be ecstatic about this.

What is theUran (I'm going to start leaving the D off) saying about any upcoming referendums - do you think these are going to be fair?   Especially when many people have fled due to shelling by one guy - (which you've hardly denounced)?

https://ria.ru/20220905/referendumy-1814419638.html

Earlier, Secretary of the General Council of United Russia Andrey Turchak said that referendums on the territory of the DPR and LPR would take place, and called them the territory of Russia.

Here's a nice piece of anti-democrat propaganda:

https://ria.ru/20220904/bayden-1814250944.html

I'm betting nan would have no issue with the text of it.

And  related - Russia getting upset over Biden calling T**** and extremist.

https://ria.ru/20220903/bayden-1814134381.html?in=t

They do a lot of talk about our failing democracy, coming from a country who's leader (pending health issues)  will occupy the office until 2036.

Again - I feel sorry for the Russian people - it's like they're living under Kim Jong Putin.  I would say that they're closer to a north Korea to any legit democracy.  To call them one is a joke.

I would love to see the Putin press or theUran talking about how often T**** has claimed the big lie - and who's side they're on - and with what proof?


sbenois said:

Congratulations to their government for standing with the people of Ukraine.   

Yeah, let's have a party.

Euro, Stocks Tumble as Russia Pulls Rug on Gas Supplies

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-04/intensifying-energy-shock-to-weigh-on-euro-test-ecb-on-rates#xj4y7vzkg


nohero said:

By the way, what about that piece of sh_t Garland Nixon tweet you shared?

nan said:

nohero said:

Here's the original photo.

By the way, it's a Russian Imperial Flag - File:Flag of the Russian Empire (black-yellow-white).svg

The bottom does not match the bottom of the statue.  It might be photoshopped but then so is the one supposedly in Russia.  

You posted a lie. The facts show that it was a lie. It's typical of the lack of verification for all of the "facts" you post here.


nan said:

Yeah, let's have a party.

Euro, Stocks Tumble as Russia Pulls Rug on Gas Supplies

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-04/intensifying-energy-shock-to-weigh-on-euro-test-ecb-on-rates#xj4y7vzkg

And you of course are 100% behind Vlad - right?  You really do look up to him in a lot of ways.

Just answer me one thing - what is the current level of denazification?  What is your best source on filtration camps?  What land line would Vlad agree to currently?  What if - like his media empire claims that this plot is simply a reunification of Ukraine back to Mother Russia?


nan said:

sbenois said:

Congratulations to their government for standing with the people of Ukraine.   

Yeah, let's have a party.

Euro, Stocks Tumble as Russia Pulls Rug on Gas Supplies

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-04/intensifying-energy-shock-to-weigh-on-euro-test-ecb-on-rates#xj4y7vzkg

Sbenois has been out of the market since the beginning of the year. Hope you are. 


nohero said:

You posted a lie. The facts show that it was a lie. It's typical of the lack of verification for all of the "facts" you post here.

Kinda like telling us this is a proxy war - when Vlad's excuse is bullying and genocide.  Each group seems to pick a lane to justify Vlad's decimation of a sovereign nation.

One propaganda for the West - one for the Russian press.  Most people think Vlad is saving the world from nazism.  The killing and maiming of Russian soldiers has zero effect on Vlad and his operation.  He sees no cost too great to create a New World order.

I wonder what he's doing with all the nazis he's rounded up so far?  


jamie said:

nan said:

Unlike you, they understand the whole proxy war thing and how they are being screwed by their own government. Study hard; you might catch up. 

Putin's wants Ukraine - Ukraine doesn't want Putin.  The world doesn't want to be bullied by one guy who wants to with hold gas from the places he hates - while he denazifies a country by decimating it and wiping it off the face of the worth.  Why don't you understand this?  What do you think Vlad would be happy with - what has he been saying lately that would at least call for a ceasefire?

Putin's goal was to disrupt the west - and he did - you I know must be ecstatic about this.

What is theUran (I'm going to start leaving the D off) saying about any upcoming referendums - do you think these are going to be fair?   Especially when many people have fled due to shelling by one guy - (which you've hardly denounced)?

https://ria.ru/20220905/referendumy-1814419638.html

Earlier, Secretary of the General Council of United Russia Andrey Turchak said that referendums on the territory of the DPR and LPR would take place, and called them the territory of Russia.

Here's a nice piece of anti-democrat propaganda:

https://ria.ru/20220904/bayden-1814250944.html

I'm betting nan would have no issue with the text of it.

And  related - Russia getting upset over Biden calling T**** and extremist.

https://ria.ru/20220903/bayden-1814134381.html?in=t

They do a lot of talk about our failing democracy, coming from a country who's leader (pending health issues)  will occupy the office until 2036.

Again - I feel sorry for the Russian people - it's like they're living under Kim Jong Putin.  I would say that they're closer to a north Korea to any legit democracy.  To call them one is a joke.

I would love to see the Putin press or theUran talking about how often T**** has claimed the big lie - and who's side they're on - and with what proof?

Russia wanted a peace deal and the UK stopped it in favor of war because they wanted to overthrow Putin.  Now the Russian sanctions are blowing back on the West while Russia prospers.  When are you going to stop hating Putin and start realizing that we have failed leadership ready to send us down the toilet just so the ruling elites can make more bank?  These are the real problem.  We are not going to overthrow Russia and will be destroyed if we continue to try.  We should be getting along with them anyway. 

Putin's goal was to stop the expansion of NATO on his doorstep, not to disrupt the West.  It's not always about us.  He has uncoupled with the west and joined with China and much of the rest of the world and they are going to eat our lunch.  Meanwhile it's us and the Europeans and they are about to freeze and starve and we can't help them. Not looking good for Team USA.  

Many people in the Donbas were glad to see the Russians arrive and there are lots of videos of them hugging Russian troops.  

I am anti-war and I wish Putin could have done something else such as at least made a speech to the world talking about how he was pushed in a corner or done something besides the invasion.  But, you continue to characterize this as unprovoked and it was very provoked.  That's what proxy wars are about.  You should get up to speed because the US is doing the same thing in Taiwan because we never learn.  The neocons are in charge and they have no stop or off-ramp.

Yes, they will have a referendum--which Zelensky said there would be huge consequences for participating in.  So we will see what happens with that.  I suppose if the voting favors Russia you will say it was fixed and if it favors Ukraine you will say it was fair. 

I glanced at the Dmitry Kosyrev piece and you are right, I don't have a problem with what he wrote (did not read whole thing though).  I was horrified at that Biden speech with the poisonous red background (like Melania's red Christmas trees--the US government can't help but evoke spilled blood).  Instead of talking about all the HUGE problems we have here or Mississippi not having clean water or infrastructure, education, etc. he just dumped on half the voters.  This is what Clinton did in 2016 and look  how that turned out.  When are the Democrats going to do something for ordinary people and stop running on "at least we are not as bad as the monster running?"  I know that speech played well for the people who happily vote for a senile Democratic warmonger  (Vote Blue Anywho) but it's not going to get any of the rest of us off the couch. Why alienate half the country?  Why not give people a concrete reason to vote for you instead of just attacking half the country and  throwing out stupid platitudes?  

Your third link did not translate.

On the Duran:  I posted a Duran video about how the West is going to impose price caps against the advice of every economist on the planet.  You seem to blame the Duran for that, but it's reality.  What do you think of that strategy?  Do you think it will work?  The Duran have interesting conversations.  You don't have to agree with them.  

Back to Ukraine.

Do you still think Putin has cancer?   He looks very healthy to me.   They are also always saying the head military guy has had like 25 heart attacks.  Again, he looks healthy.  

The Russian people support Putin because he's not Yetlsin.  If we were to overthrow Putin we would put in Yeltsin II and that would be hell for them.  We would do more neoliberal shock doctrine such as they got in Ukraine.  People would starve and die again as they did in the 1990s.  Putin is way better than Yetlsin. 

Russia is a beautiful country and it's sad that we are now closed off from relations with them.  This whole war was designed by the West to benefit the war manufacturers and other elites and NATO and it's not good for regular people anywhere.  You have been convinced to go against your own well being.  Looks like many in Europe have had enough and are seeing through the BS because it's now directly affecting their daily lives. 


nohero said:

nohero said:

By the way, what about that piece of sh_t Garland Nixon tweet you shared?

nan said:

nohero said:

Here's the original photo.

By the way, it's a Russian Imperial Flag - File:Flag of the Russian Empire (black-yellow-white).svg

The bottom does not match the bottom of the statue.  It might be photoshopped but then so is the one supposedly in Russia.  

You posted a lie. The facts show that it was a lie. It's typical of the lack of verification for all of the "facts" you post here.

The "facts" don't show it was a lie.  There are some who question the veracity--and we don't know how it came to be.  

You have posted lots of phoney baloney stuff here so don't even try to take the moral high ground.


nan said:

nohero said:

nohero said:

By the way, what about that piece of sh_t Garland Nixon tweet you shared?

nan said:

nohero said:

Here's the original photo.

By the way, it's a Russian Imperial Flag - File:Flag of the Russian Empire (black-yellow-white).svg

The bottom does not match the bottom of the statue.  It might be photoshopped but then so is the one supposedly in Russia.  

You posted a lie. The facts show that it was a lie. It's typical of the lack of verification for all of the "facts" you post here.

The "facts" don't show it was a lie.  There are some who question the veracity--and we don't know how it came to be.  

You have posted lots of phoney baloney stuff here so don't even try to take the moral high ground.

Garland Nixon posted a lie. You posted it here.  It was easy enough to check, and see that all of the facts show that it's a picture of a group of Russians, taken years ago in a city in Siberia. 

It's not a big point in the grand scheme of things, but it shows that even in the little things the concept of "fact" and "evidence" is meaningless for those pushing anti-Ukraine arguments.


nan said -
When are you going to stop hating Putin and start realizing that we have failed leadership ready to send us down the toilet just so the ruling elites can make more bank?

Where is the world  did you get that idea?  You are a true Putin stooge. You hate the U.S. 


Just picking one item out of the multi-topic post above -

nan said:

I am anti-war and I wish Putin could have done something else such as at least made a speech to the world talking about how he was pushed in a corner or done something besides the invasion.  But, you continue to characterize this as unprovoked and it was very provoked.  That's what proxy wars are about.  You should get up to speed because the US is doing the same thing in Taiwan because we never learn.  The neocons are in charge and they have no stop or off-ramp.

No you're not "anti-war" if this is your position.

And, in case it wasn't already obvious, I have zero patience for any of the tankie arguments that Taiwan should just throw itself to the mercy of Xi and his Beijing government.


jamie said:

nan said:

Yeah, let's have a party.

Euro, Stocks Tumble as Russia Pulls Rug on Gas Supplies

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-04/intensifying-energy-shock-to-weigh-on-euro-test-ecb-on-rates#xj4y7vzkg

And you of course are 100% behind Vlad - right?  You really do look up to him in a lot of ways.

Just answer me one thing - what is the current level of denazification?  What is your best source on filtration camps?  What land line would Vlad agree to currently?  What if - like his media empire claims that this plot is simply a reunification of Ukraine back to Mother Russia?

Where did I say I am 100% behind Vald or look up to him.  I look up to John Sell Cotman and John Singer Sargent and some other painters.   World leaders are always bozos.  

Where does Putin's media empire (which is hilarious since Russian media seems mostly pathetic) state that this is simply a plot for reunification of Ukraine back to Mother Russia?  I know they will not give up Crimea because of the seaport but they did not want the Donbas.  Putin told them to stay with Ukraine.  Now he will take them because of this proxy war which Ukraine/US/NATO has lost. 

Denazification seems like a difficult task to me but I'm glad someone is trying.  Not helpful when the enemy is in the house. 

https://twitter.com/MutualDestroy/status/1566190731643047940?s=20&t=QvG-c1e5jykG6ZNZAv_8JQ


cramer said:

nan said -
When are you going to stop hating Putin and start realizing that we have failed leadership ready to send us down the toilet just so the ruling elites can make more bank?

Where is the world  did you get that idea?  You are a true Putin stooge. You hate the U.S. 

So, you are fine with price caps on Russian oil as a way of dealing with this crisis?  

I don't hate the US but I'm very unhappy with them right now. They have the wrong focus. Europe also. 


nohero said:

Just picking one item out of the multi-topic post above -

nan said:

I am anti-war and I wish Putin could have done something else such as at least made a speech to the world talking about how he was pushed in a corner or done something besides the invasion.  But, you continue to characterize this as unprovoked and it was very provoked.  That's what proxy wars are about.  You should get up to speed because the US is doing the same thing in Taiwan because we never learn.  The neocons are in charge and they have no stop or off-ramp.

No you're not "anti-war" if this is your position.

And, in case it wasn't already obvious, I have zero patience for any of the tankie arguments that Taiwan should just throw itself to the mercy of Xi and his Beijing government.

I have zero patience for people who use words like "tankie" to sound grown-up.  Real grown ups don't fall for the lies around proxy wars.  

I'm sick of the money spent on useless neocon directed wars that we lose anyway and it hurts our economy.  We are falling apart and our empire is going down the toilet. 


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