Renaming Jefferson school.
dave said:
DIdn't mean to imply it was. GW sleeping at T. Ball's house is the rumor.
just like the rumor that the Bay City Rollers lived in Maplewood 
Probably why we had to sing their #1 song in music class every Friday with Mrs Russamano on piano.
dave said:
I was wondering when this topic would come up when the General Lee statues started falling in the south.
Why not rename Jefferson School Roosevelt School and don't specify which one (not that Teddy owned slaves). However, there is a tie to the town through a Roosevelt cousin, I believe -- Roosevelt Rd. is named for that relation, who at one time had an estate off Ridgewood Rd.
Might make sense to follow the example of the fine citizens in Kenilworth. We can have the Warren G. Harding elementary school.
He didn't piss nobody off.
Maybe we should just use people’s first names when we name things.
Thomas School. It could be Jefferson but it could be the Tank Engine.
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
Might make sense to follow the example of the fine citizens in Kenilworth. We can have the Warren G. Harding elementary school.He didn't piss nobody off.
Clearly you haven't seen the biopic John Oliver made starring the wax figure of Harding he bought from the closing museum (one bit of NSFW language).
Does the school board know that New Jersey was the very last of the northern states to ban slavery. I think it was in the year 1804. For that reason should our board officially renounce our ties to the state and reject any funding we receive from it?
Perhaps it's me but I sense an air of moral superiority by some people today who have come to believe the fate of the world lies in their hands.
Was Jefferson a saint? Hardly. Was he a true patriot who would have been executed as a traitor had the British snuffed out the rebellion? No doubt. Is his authorship of the Declaration of Independence something to be celebrated even today? Certainly. In fact, I would challenge any school board member to write their own version and see it how measures up to Jefferson's, which has stood the test of time for more than two centuries.
I am officially at the point of starting to ramble, so forgive me, but just why is it that American athletes today tend to be the ones that protest when their National Anthem is being played, as occurred during the recent Olympics, while athletes from other countries do not?
Fact is that America has never in any point in history been perfect or not in need of reform. Why only today do we think the flag not worthy of being saluted?
higgins said:
Does the school board know that New Jersey was the very last of the northern states to ban slavery. I think it was in the year 1804. For that reason should our board officially renounce our ties to the state and reject any funding we receive from it?
Perhaps it's me but I sense an air of moral superiority by some people today who have come to believe the fate of the world lies in their hands.
Was Jefferson a saint? Hardly. Was he a true patriot who would have been executed as a traitor had the British snuffed out the rebellion? No doubt. Is his authorship of the Declaration of Independence something to be celebrated even today? Certainly. In fact, I would challenge any school board member to write their own version and see it how measures up to Jefferson's, which has stood the test of time for more than two centuries.
I am officially at the point of starting to ramble, so forgive me, but just why is it that American athletes today tend to be the ones that protest when their National Anthem is being played, as occurred during the recent Olympics, while athletes from other countries do not?
Fact is that America has never in any point in history been perfect or not in need of reform. Why only today do we think the flag not worthy of being saluted?
Yeah, you are mixing up different subjects. Flag saluting is an easier subject for me than whether a name gets taken off a building. I'm not big on rituals, and everyday rituals, especially when they're coerced, become thoughtless. I don't think being forced to recite the pledge of allegiance in school every day (or the national anthem at a ballgame) made me or anyone else a better citizen. Those idiots who invaded the capitol and their millions of sympathizers are big time flag wavers.
higgins said:
Does the school board know that New Jersey was the very last of the northern states to ban slavery. I think it was in the year 1804. For that reason should our board officially renounce our ties to the state and reject any funding we receive from it?
Perhaps it's me but I sense an air of moral superiority by some people today who have come to believe the fate of the world lies in their hands.
Was Jefferson a saint? Hardly. Was he a true patriot who would have been executed as a traitor had the British snuffed out the rebellion? No doubt. Is his authorship of the Declaration of Independence something to be celebrated even today? Certainly. In fact, I would challenge any school board member to write their own version and see it how measures up to Jefferson's, which has stood the test of time for more than two centuries.
I am officially at the point of starting to ramble, so forgive me, but just why is it that American athletes today tend to be the ones that protest when their National Anthem is being played, as occurred during the recent Olympics, while athletes from other countries do not?
Possibly because many of those with real grievances against their countries are concerned that if they protest on a world stage they will be persecuted when they return home. American athletes protest because they are exercising a right that has been enumerated in the Constitution. A flag is just a symbol, as is an anthem. You could choose to celebrate the protests because they are an example of our rights in action. Personally I value that more than a piece of cloth or a tune.
ml1 said:
but everyone loves pi
No kid wants to be in school anywhere close to 22/7.
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
Might make sense to follow the example of the fine citizens in Kenilworth. We can have the Warren G. Harding elementary school.
He didn't piss nobody off.
Notwithstanding Mrs. Harding. And Mr. Phillips.
higgins said:
Was Jefferson a saint? Hardly. Was he a true patriot who would have been executed as a traitor had the British snuffed out the rebellion? No doubt. Is his authorship of the Declaration of Independence something to be celebrated even today? Certainly. In fact, I would challenge any school board member to write their own version and see it how measures up to Jefferson's, which has stood the test of time for more than two centuries.
Would renaming the school to, say, Independence Elementary serve much of the same cultural purpose? If the reason for naming a building after Jefferson is to celebrate his achievements, wouldn't it be more direct to simply name the building after the achievement?
I'm wondering if any Black members of our community are arguing to keep Jefferson's name on the school. And I continue to try and put myself in the place of Black students attending a school named for someone who owned people like them. Conservatives of course are complaining on Twitter that this effort by the BOE is virtue signaling so a bunch of white libs can feel better. And maybe that's true. Maybe our Black neighbors will see this as only an empty gesture. So I'd like to know how they view this. Because I'm willing to bet cash money that every person here complaining about the removal of Jefferson's name from the school is not Black.
ml1 said:
Because I'm willing to bet cash money that every person here complaining about the removal of Jefferson's name from the school is not Black.
I admit I'm a Honkey. 21 and Me says I am part Arian. Does that lessen the integrity of my argument?
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
I admit I'm a Honkey. 21 and Me says I am part Arian. Does that lessen the integrity of my argument?
I’d say it adds more context to the debate than asking what name-change advocates have done for anyone’s benefit or whether they, too, could write a Declaration of Independence.
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
I admit I'm a Honkey. 21 and Me says I am part Arian. Does that lessen the integrity of my argument?
your mischaracterization of the BOE's motivation as being "pissed" at Jefferson is what undermines the integrity of your argument.
mtierney said:
Back in the day when I was president of the Tuscan PTA back in the ‘70s, the name was directly understood to be in honor of the Indian encampment of Chief Tuscan said to have been near the brook. If being woke means erasing now “offensive” nomenclature, and the school name is changed, then Tuscan Road must also be renamed.
“Can of worms” and “slippery slope” springs to mind. History should not be rewritten, but learned from. Many of the singers of the Declaration of Independence were slave owners — the document remains the founding principles of our nation.
Educating our population about American History is important and necessary— warts and all— rewriting it is dumb and will lead to dumber citizens.
You do realize that we are not talking about Tuscan, right? Education starts with reading comprehension. And we can and should study and understand Jefferson. We can do that even if the school is not named after him. I know a great deal about Chester Nimitz and I have never studied anywhere named after him
First President Jefferson’s head is on the chopping block for being a brilliant man of his times. Surely you don’t believe this wokeness is done, do you? The Native Americans have already succeeded ridding the sports scene by removal of what are perceived as racist words.
Tuscan is the one school left which is named for a minority group.. Seth Boyden was an inventor and grew strawberries in Maplewood for the well-heeled aristocrats in Manhattan— so he may pass the woke test. Too bad the district closed First Street School in South Orange decades ago.
Was CHS named for the now debased explorer? Do some folks believe the Clinton school was named for Bill? When does common sense tell us to look to the future instead of “fixing” the past?
if Tuscan was an actual historical person (and according to the Durand-Heddon archives he may have been a fictional character), why would naming a street and school after him need to be undone? What on earth would be offensive about the word "Tuscan" if it was the name of a person?
OTOH, the word "redskin" is blatantly a racist slur, and that's why it was dropped as the name of the WFT.
bak said:
Anyone else feel like this topic isn't high on the list of things this BOE needs to be focusing on? Just asking--feels like there's lots of heavier rocks that need to be moved.
Not mutually exclusive. If Thomas Jefferson could write eloquently about freedom while owning slaves, surely the BOE can do some heavy lifting and rename a school at the same time.
mtierney said:
First President Jefferson’s head is on the chopping block for being a brilliant man of his times. Surely you don’t believe this wokeness is done, do you? The Native Americans have already succeeded ridding the sports scene by removal of what are perceived as racist words.
You say that as if it is a bad thing. Do you mind if I name a sport team after some derogatory name for Catholics?
By the way, Jefferson is not on the chopping block for being a brilliant man of his times. He is on the chopping block for not freeing his slaves even though he argued that slavery should end.
mtierney said:
First President Jefferson’s head is on the chopping block for being a brilliant man of his times. Surely you don’t believe this wokeness is done, do you? The Native Americans have already succeeded ridding the sports scene by removal of what are perceived as racist words.
Tuscan is the one school left which is named for a minority group.. Seth Boyden was an inventor and grew strawberries in Maplewood for the well-heeled aristocrats in Manhattan— so he may pass the woke test. Too bad the district closed First Street School in South Orange decades ago.
Was CHS named for the now debased explorer? Do some folks believe the Clinton school was named for Bill? When does common sense tell us to look to the future instead of “fixing” the past?
At this point, I really have to hope that we're being trolled. I mean, really, this can't be serious. Suggesting that renaming sports teams to non-racist names is wrong? In what world?
tjohn said:
mtierney said:
First President Jefferson’s head is on the chopping block for being a brilliant man of his times. Surely you don’t believe this wokeness is done, do you? The Native Americans have already succeeded ridding the sports scene by removal of what are perceived as racist words.
You say that as if it is a bad thing. Do you mind if I name a sport team after some derogatory name for Catholics?
By the way, Jefferson is not on the chopping block for being a brilliant man of his times. He is on the chopping block for not freeing his slaves even though he argued that slavery should end.
I was hoping Cleveland was going to take the opportunity to trigger the #conservativesnowflakes with this name:
Steve said:
At this point, I really have to hope that we're being trolled. I mean, really, this can't be serious. Suggesting that renaming sports teams to non-racist names is wrong? In what world?
You are apparently unfamiliar with the party in question
STANV said:
You are apparently unfamiliar with the party in question
Steve doesn’t visit the politics section.
First, polarize the man.
Then you can tear down his ideas.
It’s time to do away with the Four Olds.
Jackson_Fusion said:
First, polarize the man.
Then you can tear down his ideas.
It’s time to do away with the Four Olds.
Ah, so renaming is just the first step in attacking specific ideas? Which ideas do you believe are the target here?
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DIdn't mean to imply it was. GW sleeping at T. Ball's house is the rumor.