Read this if you think the Post Office Redevelopment is being rushed

I would like to see some Documentation of the Township asking for ideas between 2011 and 2013.

Show some consistency.

Engage was founded in 2013 specifically because there were no alternate ideas allowed..

It's generally unwise, if you have not already discovered, to tempt me to provide documentation of something, because generally I will find it.

http://nj-maplewoodtownship.civicplus.com/DocumentCenter/Home/View/497

Note the section titled "Ideas..." and then note all the community generated ideas listed under it.

and...

http://nj-maplewoodtownship.civicplus.com/DocumentCenter/Home/View/528

I read zero, yes that's right, ZERO, suggestions to retain the existing building. Apparently you forgot to attend both of those community input meetings. Perhaps your motto should be "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it..."

Funny when I read the section which said  "Ideas for usage"............there were 8 suggestions put forward..

The person who suggested a Hotel was summarily driven to South Orange and had his Maplewood Citizenship  Revoked.

And do you still deny that ideas were not asked for?

ArchBroad said:

And do you still deny that ideas were not asked for?

 One negative at a time.

I assume we all know what the phrase "going through the motions means"

A better definition is a "sop"

But yes the question was asked..............and the answers quickly forgotten.

Are you upset that they didn't listen to the suggestion that a hotel be built? or that 2nd floor retail or office be built?

So, as the documentation proves, ideas were asked for and no ideas about utilizing the existing structure or keeping it as only one story were ever raised (or, as I'm sure you'd like to assert were just conveniently missing from the record) in any of those community meetings.

You are only concerned that your specific suggestions were not addressed. If you'd like me to itemize line for line which independent items were suggested and then addressed, I'm not sure you would like the outcome of my analysis, but I'm happy to do so.

If this is in fact true, then EM was founded on an erroneous message, and I know that is not the case. It was founded for a just cause, but has unfortunately seemed to evolve into something else.

author said:

Engage was founded in 2013 specifically because there were no alternate ideas allowed..

I find it surprising that anyone who lives close to the site would think that a hotel would be preferable to apartments as a neighbor.  I'm sure wedding parties staying at the hotel on Friday nights, whooping it up on their way back from closing time at the pub would be a hoot.  

Any one living anywhere in the Village should recognize that a Hotel would serve the needs of the people of the Township much more so than  a static apartment building.   Business people visiting the town must go to the Hilton in Short Hills.  Any parent vising Seton Hall ends up where?    Even the Transit Village Concept would allow that business people staying here would get a good nights sleep before heading into NYC..

Noise......you have to be kidding. With two drinking establishments letting out at 2AM ,  there used to be three,  and their late night people heading for the parking lot between the Village Coffee and the Post Office  practically  shouting at each other............do people lose their hearing when they drink?.........there is no end of noise.

And then there is the garbage pick up dealing with the 7 dumpsters behind the building.........it must be illegal to pick up before

2AM.

Yes,  a hotel..........no stores is to be desired.

ArchBroad...........I am sure what you consider addressed I would call dismissed.

Economically viable...........who know?  But definitely more of a plus for Maplewood Township

ArchBroad..........back to what was considered or not as an alternative to the building

There have been generations of Maplewood TC's that believed the Urban Legend which said the Post Office must go to

make way for  Kings Suipermarket.   If we do not do this Kings may leave Maplewood.   I will  not belabor the point but we all know where that went.

However that was still the prevailing thought when the plans for this building were drawn.   With the "Kings myth" still solid in the mind of our TC do you really think any other idea such as a Hotel. or a Village Green or fill in the blank.

Any other idea would have been stopped dead in its footsteps.     Any discussion of alternatives was just going through the motions.

I would also not be opposed to a hotel, but I think it wouldn't be viable. And besides, @author doesn't want a single thing built on that site.

While I'm not sure there is enough demand to even keep a 10 room hotel in business, I've certainly not seen an analysis done for that. I do think we could use a nice B&B or two near the Village, with a serene little cafe with beautiful outdoor seating. I can picture many a home close to the train that would work for that. Maybe someone in the opposition who lives nearby will be so upset they will sell their house to an investor with that vision in mind. I have visions of Rhinebeck or Red Hook, New York with its historic downtown and several beautiful Inn's, shopping and restaurants.

In any case, @author refuses to acknowledge again that he was wrong about the issue and again throws out a conspiracy theory statement.

the same old conspiracy theories, lead by the same handful of people...

You basically admit that instead of providing the actual suggestions at community meetings for what you specifically wanted when they were being solicited because you believe the government is working against you constantly, you have instead decided to wait until the process was almost completed to open up (only on MOL?) and be vocal again about your desires. That's constructive... and perhaps a bit secretive.

You realize how petty this makes you sound? And how much it reduces the likelihood that any respectable person take you seriously?

Any other idea would have been stopped dead in its footsteps.     Any discussion of alternatives was just going through the motions.

author said:

I would like to see some Documentation of the Township asking for ideas between 2011 and 2013.

Show some consistency.

Engage was founded in 2013 specifically because there were no alternate ideas allowed..

 Just need to ping this up since it perfectly encapsulates the utter nonsense coming from the opposition. 

To be fair, not all of the opposition is nonsensical. Amidst the nonsense, there have been people who object to aspects of the current design and actually provide constructive comments trying to be helpful to fix some things that still need fixing.

dave23 said:

author said:

I would like to see some Documentation of the Township asking for ideas between 2011 and 2013.

Show some consistency.

Engage was founded in 2013 specifically because there were no alternate ideas allowed..

 Just need to ping this up since it perfectly encapsulates the utter nonsense coming from the opposition. 

ArchBroad said:

To be fair, not all of the opposition is nonsensical. Amidst the nonsense, there have been people who object to aspects of the current design and actually provide constructive comments trying to be helpful to fix some things that still need fixing.

dave23 said:

author said:

I would like to see some Documentation of the Township asking for ideas between 2011 and 2013.

Show some consistency.

Engage was founded in 2013 specifically because there were no alternate ideas allowed..

 Just need to ping this up since it perfectly encapsulates the utter nonsense coming from the opposition.  

 Fair enough, but the most vocal opposition has taken the throw-it-against-the-wall approach.

The sensible voices have helped improve aspects.

What makes a hotel preferable to apartments? The fact that it would be empty most of the time? That might be nice for the neighbors but not for the hotel owner.

imho, what makes author's suggestions preferable to him is that nearly every one isn't economically viable, and thus would never actually be built. 

Now you are having a discussion about a hotel!

I am beginning to think that what we most need is a mental hospital.

So much for the senior housing argument, then.

CONFUSED said:

Now you are having a discussion about a hotel!

I am beginning to think that what we most need is a mental hospital.

Repurposing the Post Office building for a group home might be a good use

It would make a great half-way house for those looking to integrate with society after incarceration.  

I'm upset the TC never considered this reuse!

To the Petitions!  Call the lawn sign printer!

ramzzoinksus said:

CONFUSED said:

Now you are having a discussion about a hotel!

I am beginning to think that what we most need is a mental hospital.

 

Repurposing the Post Office building for a group home might be a good use

Now that ArchBroad has submitted what he claims I want at that site I think I should have the right to print what I would like and let the chips fall where they may.

1.  A true Village Green............small yes by any standard but a place for shoppers to be able to sit and enjoy the surrounding through most of the year.  I definitely think it would be a boost to all our merchants in town.   By the way, the excursion   buses

from Easterrn Pennsylvania that were going to bring hordes of shoppers to see our 5 new stores have been cancelled for lack of interest.

 2.   Low cost or senior housing.  The one bedroom apartments  to be built in the Pest House will probably start in the

range of $2,500 a month.  Maplewood Seniors seeking to avoid high taxes will avoid these high rentals.  We tax our

Seniors to the point where they can no longer stay in their houses and give them few alternatives.

3.  A Boutique Hotel..............yes charge what you like per room but do not tax them to death.

4.  Last alternative.........build the Pest House as planned.   But no Pilot.  That is probably the most valuable piece of property

in the Village.  It is being sold at Fire Sale Prices and we give the builder a Pilot?

The fourth alternative will of course feel the wrath of my tennis balls.

A brief time out from the Post Office Wars.s

My daughter who is lives a few states away and is probably tired of my communications about what is going on at our Post Office Site sent me this this morning...........she adds   "It is one of the last great equalizing institutions.  No VIP  treatment here. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/17/opinion/sunday/i-love-the-post-office.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share

Everyone received the same poor service.

1. Ricalton Square

2. I'm sorry you think you'll be unable to afford an apartment in the Post House. I too would like affordable housing.

3. All for it.

4. Can't disagree that it would be great if there was no PILOT.

author said:

Now that ArchBroad has submitted what he claims I want at that site I think I should have the right to print what I would like and let the chips fall where they may.

1.  A true Village Green............small yes by any standard but a place for shoppers to be able to sit and enjoy the surrounding through most of the year.  I definitely think it would be a boost to all our merchants in town.   By the way, the excursion   buses

from Easterrn Pennsylvania that were going to bring hordes of shoppers to see our 5 new stores have been cancelled for lack of interest.

 2.   Low cost or senior housing.  The one bedroom apartments  to be built in the Pest House will probably start in the

range of $2,500 a month.  Maplewood Seniors seeking to avoid high taxes will avoid these high rentals.  We tax our

Seniors to the point where they can no longer stay in their houses and give them few alternatives.

3.  A Boutique Hotel..............yes charge what you like per room but do not tax them to death.

4.  Last alternative.........build the Pest House as planned.   But no Pilot.  That is probably the most valuable piece of property

in the Village.  It is being sold at Fire Sale Prices and we give the builder a Pilot?

The fourth alternative will of course feel the wrath of my tennis balls.

Ricalton Square is nice.........but it is more of a pocket park

A true Village Green would require all the land available but would be a valuable addition to our Township

In Colonial times the various Militias trained on their Village Greens.

Strange to think of Newark as a Village but Military Park is what remains of their Green

Bloomfield has a pleasant shady Green filled with benches.............another element big in my life

Busy downtown Morristown also retains their Green.........surrounded by retail stores

As far as my living in the Pest House.............nah...........what would I do with all these tennis balls?

author said:

Ricalton Square is nice.........but it is more of a pocket park

A true Village Green would require all the land available but would be a valuable addition to our Township

 Here's an idea - improve pedestrian access from the Village to the Olmstead-designed park just on the other side of the tracks.

If that sounds familiar, it's because that's the proposed plan.