Police Officer Punches Woman While Arresting Her

flimbro and Red_Barchetta are both wrong.

The police should be held to a higher standard.

Uncle

jersey_boy said:
flimbro and Red_Barchetta are both wrong.


The police should be held to a higher standard.

 That makes them both right.

It's a joke, son.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2018/05/qa_heres_what_you_should_know_about_the_woman_punc.html

That was a weird exchange.

Police are currently held to a lower standard.

If I were to kill someone, would it be enough for me just to say that I felt my life was in danger? Would the entire Justice system automatically line up behind me and ensure I wasn't charged, and if I was that I'd be acquitted? 

Red_Barchetta said:
Was she posing a threat to anyone?  I don't see a need for getting physical.  Give her a ticket and move along. 

 She spit in the officer's face. She was incredibly antagonistic. I wanted to hit her. However, she;s a 20 year old woman, on the ground. Looks like pretty horrible policing to me.

cubby said:

Red_Barchetta said:
Was she posing a threat to anyone?  I don't see a need for getting physical.  Give her a ticket and move along. 

 She spit in the officer's face. She was incredibly antagonistic. I wanted to hit her. However, she;s a 20 year old woman, on the ground. Looks like pretty horrible policing to me.

She was "antagonistic" way after the cops should have decided to leave her alone. Sometimes it looks as if the cops are deliberately trying to provoke people so that they'll have an excuse to beat them up.

Think of it this way - before the cops got there, this young woman was just minding her own business, harming no one. After the cops intervened, all hell eventually breaks lose.

It's totally the cops' fault. They're not supposed to make situations worse.

ridski said:

Tom_R said:

The moral of this story:
When you get caught; don't poke the bear.

 Caught doing what?

 One example that comes to mind, is being twenty years old and being in the possession of an alcoholic beverage on a Wildwood beach.

And, as I intimated above, even if caught doing nothing; poking the bear will not make things better for the civilian.

TomR

flimbro said:
@Tom_R
What's the advice for when the bear just runs up and bites your ***?


Fifty years ago lots of cops went on the job directly from the military- mostly Vietnam. They had a whole different idea about what was and what wasn't worth getting excited about.
What summons was being written? I never heard any definitive charge stated by either officer. The only action I hear being requested is that the cop with the pad go and retrieve her so they could make her pour the alcohol out.  Not much of this seems to be by the book.

 There's a federal statute providing for a private cause of action against the offending LEOs and the governmental entities to which they answer.

I think it's Section 1984 of some Title and Chapter I do not, offhand, recall.

TomR

cubby said:

Red_Barchetta said:
Was she posing a threat to anyone?  I don't see a need for getting physical.  Give her a ticket and move along. 

 She spit in the officer's face. She was incredibly antagonistic. I wanted to hit her. However, she;s a 20 year old woman, on the ground. Looks like pretty horrible policing to me.

 Did she spit in his face or did the cop make that up? Nothing in the video would support that she spit on him.

Cops do make **** up. In N.Y.C., the most egregious example is what is called "dropsy,"  the planting of false evidence.

Formerlyjerseyjack said:

cubby said:

Red_Barchetta said:
Was she posing a threat to anyone?  I don't see a need for getting physical.  Give her a ticket and move along. 

 She spit in the officer's face. She was incredibly antagonistic. I wanted to hit her. However, she;s a 20 year old woman, on the ground. Looks like pretty horrible policing to me.

 Did she spit in his face or did the cop make that up? Nothing in the video would support that she spit on him.

Cops do make **** up. In N.Y.C., the most egregious example is what is called "dropsy,"  the planting of false evidence.

 If you go back to the first link posted of the officer's body cam, look at the few seconds following the 5:20, mark.

Whether or not the young woman hit the officer's face, I can't tell. Did she spit in his direction; I'd have to say yeah.

Personally, I'd like to view, and hear, a recording of the entire interaction. But given that which the Wildwood PD has seen fit to release, I'd say it doesn't look good for the officer; and that things look worse for the young woman.

TomR

Regardless, you don’t punch someone in the head especially when they’re unable to punch back (for whatever reason) - here, we call that a ‘coward’s punch’. She could have long-term injuries; this could affect her ability to work or parent. 

There are other, more efficient ways to subdue someone even if you need to use some force. 

ml1 said:

Red_Barchetta said:

flimbro said:

LOST said:

ridski said: Cops body cam footage, btw. https://youtu.be/PQQ9xOhuFrk

However, in any interaction with the public I think we have to remember that the armed law enforcement professional whose been given the authority to take life will always have to be held to much higher standards and expectations.

I can’t believe you just wrote that.   

 I can't believe you can't believe that cops should be held to a higher standard than any 20 year old dope hanging out on the beach.

 You continue to mention this higher standard for police.  Please let us know what standards you belive should be set for the police officer and also the standard for the civlian.  My POV is: both should be held to a reasonable person standard (albeit reasonable police officer for LEO and general reasonable person standard for civilian).  

tom said:
Police are currently held to a lower standard.


If I were to kill someone, would it be enough for me just to say that I felt my life was in danger? Would the entire Justice system automatically line up behind me and ensure I wasn't charged, and if I was that I'd be acquitted? 

I think LEOs usually know things that the average person does not know.  For example, when identification is demanded from a civilian and the civilian refuses to provide identificaiton, there is a significantly higher likelihood that the civiilian has warrants, is in the midst of a parole violation or a fugitive from justice (collectively referred to here as a "Bad Guy").  Once there is a significantly higher likelihood of the individual being questioned being a Bad Guy then the LEO must step up their activity in light of these facts.   Thus, I believe that police should be held to a "reasonable police" or "reasonable LEO" standard.

Tom_R said:

Formerlyjerseyjack said:

cubby said:

Red_Barchetta said:
Was she posing a threat to anyone?  I don't see a need for getting physical.  Give her a ticket and move along. 

 She spit in the officer's face. She was incredibly antagonistic. I wanted to hit her. However, she;s a 20 year old woman, on the ground. Looks like pretty horrible policing to me.

 Did she spit in his face or did the cop make that up? Nothing in the video would support that she spit on him.

Cops do make **** up. In N.Y.C., the most egregious example is what is called "dropsy,"  the planting of false evidence.

 If you go back to the first link posted of the officer's body cam, look at the few seconds following the 5:20, mark.
Whether or not the young woman hit the officer's face, I can't tell. Did she spit in his direction; I'd have to say yeah.
Personally, I'd like to view, and hear, a recording of the entire interaction. But given that which the Wildwood PD has seen fit to release, I'd say it doesn't look good for the officer; and that things look worse for the young woman.
TomR

 Go back to 5:20 and look again. She is covered in sand, belly down. She spits. She, or her lawyer argued that she was discharging sand from her mouth. At 5:20, she is yelling. She stops for a second and spits. She spits a volume that is clearly visible -- "light gray" in the video. 

There is no way that a person can stop talking and in a period of one or maybe two seconds, generate that volume of spittle in that period of time.

RealityForAll said:

tom said:
Police are currently held to a lower standard.


If I were to kill someone, would it be enough for me just to say that I felt my life was in danger? Would the entire Justice system automatically line up behind me and ensure I wasn't charged, and if I was that I'd be acquitted? 

I think LEOs usually know things that the average person does not know.  For example, when identification is demanded from a civilian and the civilian refuses to provide identificaiton, there is a significantly higher likelihood that the civiilian has warrants, is in the midst of a parole violation or a fugitive from justice (collectively referred to here as a "Bad Guy").  Once there is a significantly higher likelihood of the individual being questioned being a Bad Guy then the LEO must step up their activity in light of these facts.   Thus, I believe that police should be held to a "reasonable police" or "reasonable LEO" standard.

 These were LEO’s, but they were not full time fully trained Wildwood police officers. They were class II special law enforcement officers, hired for the summer only. Just so we’re on the same page.

It's sad how polarized the world is, how people can't agree on anything. I'm certain that if the cop had shot her 6 times in the back, there would be people saying that she deserved it.

RealityForAll said:

 You continue to mention this higher standard for police.  Please let us know what standards you belive should be set for the police officer and also the standard for the civlian.  My POV is: both should be held to a reasonable person standard (albeit reasonable police officer for LEO and general reasonable person standard for civilian).  

It's not just my opinion.  There are official codes of conduct for police officers, so there are officially higher standards for them than for civilians.  For example here is the Red Bank, NJ code of conduct for police:

https://ecode360.com/30754219

tom said:
Police are currently held to a lower standard.


If I were to kill someone, would it be enough for me just to say that I felt my life was in danger? Would the entire Justice system automatically line up behind me and ensure I wasn't charged, and if I was that I'd be acquitted? 

 Perhaps. You have described the George Zimmerman-Treyvon Martin scenario.

So would anyone like to discuss how ridiculous it is that the law makes it illegal for a 20 Year old mother to have a beer?

Depends on your definition of "have,"   In possession or consuming?

Again, there are two questions. One is the behavior and character of the mother. We all agree. This ain't Mother Teresa. 

The other is the response of the cop. That is the focus of the thread. The 20 y.o. will make out ahead in this case. Charges will be dropped or she will end up with a misdemeanor, $50.00 fine.

Then she will sue. She already has a lawyer and is talking about being depressed since the incident. Add to this the headaches that will not go away, the stress caused by the over-reaction of the cop, the spinal injury which will not show up on xray, public humiliation, stress on her kid for watching her being assaulted, stress for worrying about her kid worrying about her, plus whatever other injury her friends remind her that he has.

I guess she will end up about $25k richer.

If towns stop hiring cops with psychological problems it will be money well spent.

tom said:
If towns stop hiring cops with psychological problems it will be money well spent.

 Unfortunately, simply wanting to be a cop is often indicative of having a psychological problem.

drummerboy said:

tom said:
If towns stop hiring cops with psychological problems it will be money well spent.

 Unfortunately, simply wanting to be a cop is often indicative of having a psychological problem.

 Citation needed

tom said:


If I were to kill someone, would it be enough for me just to say that I felt my life was in danger? Would the entire Justice system automatically line up behind me and ensure I wasn't charged, and if I was that I'd be acquitted? 

 In Florida, you would be all good.

drummerboy said:

tom said:
If towns stop hiring cops with psychological problems it will be money well spent.

 Unfortunately, simply wanting to be a cop is often indicative of having a psychological problem.

 You really don't like cops.

LOST said:
So would anyone like to discuss how ridiculous it is that the law makes it illegal for a 20 Year old mother to have a beer?

 Or in the vicinity of a beer?

unicorn33 said:

drummerboy said:

tom said:
If towns stop hiring cops with psychological problems it will be money well spent.

 Unfortunately, simply wanting to be a cop is often indicative of having a psychological problem.

 You really don't like cops.

I simply think that the authoritarian nature of police work tends to draw in some mighty shaky personalities is all. Some join to serve the public. Others join to be the boss. The latter approach is unhealthy. The cop we're talking about in this thread is one of those.