Oil tank removal: Why only in NJ? And what do people do in worst case scenario? archived
Sep 23, 2013 at 8:32am Edited
Yeah, it is crazy. We have an oil tank that is insured and in-use. The insurance is going up and up and up - and we would love to do the right thing, but we are not sure how we will afford to do our voluntary pull, we just know we have to do it some day...
Meanwhile, my parents own a 5-bedroom home in Monmouth county, and when I mentioned our oil tank dilemma to my over-80-year-old dad, he casually told me he has a decommissioned tank somewhere on his property, and told me it's no big deal...
That's two tanks that I try not to loose sleep over... Hah!
I hope everything goes well for you, Sienna. I really don't know why it should be such a crazy situation where the rules keep changing and homeowners have to keep jumping to keep up - and it really isn't even possible to do the right thing.
Meanwhile, my parents own a 5-bedroom home in Monmouth county, and when I mentioned our oil tank dilemma to my over-80-year-old dad, he casually told me he has a decommissioned tank somewhere on his property, and told me it's no big deal...
That's two tanks that I try not to loose sleep over... Hah!
I hope everything goes well for you, Sienna. I really don't know why it should be such a crazy situation where the rules keep changing and homeowners have to keep jumping to keep up - and it really isn't even possible to do the right thing.
we have a high water table which means tanks decompose faster, I was looking at a house in Chester nj which had underground tanks that were no big deal for realtors up there, my mplwd lawyer still wanted it removed which the realtor found odd
the properly decomissioned tank in my home was removed by the seller and was a leaker, it cost them about 10k to remediate the soil
the properly decomissioned tank in my home was removed by the seller and was a leaker, it cost them about 10k to remediate the soil
I have one - in use. I pay the insurance and try not to let worrying keep me awake at night.
Sep 23, 2013 at 8:55am Edited
I feel your pain, I have a properly decommissioned oil tank under my driveway and a statement from the town stating so. I did everything in accordance with the state regulations 10 years ago. I was just told by my oil guy that they can do 4 soil samples around the tank to determine if contamination is present. Perhaps your buyer would agree to this. Do a search, there are tons of oil tank threads here on MOL.
I think in ten years it won't be the dramatic issue it is now. Frankly, I think it is a big money maker. Fed by hysteria. That's my story and I'm sticking to it because I have to.
We also have a decommissioned tank. As recently as 2007 it was an acceptable way to deal with an in-ground tank - have it properly decommissioned, move to gas. Now if you ever want to sell your home (or in our case, pave your driveway) you have to risk financial ruin pulling the tank and possibly be on the hook for remediation of something you never had anything to do with. Pulling the tank is not a big deal, maybe 2K. Paying for remediation, that's the problem. I don't know of any solutions. Just wanted to let you know you're not alone.
orzabelle said:
I think in ten years it won't be the dramatic issue it is now. Frankly, I think it is a big money maker. Fed by hysteria. That's my story and I'm sticking to it because I have to.
I agree with this and that is why I am waiting to put my house on the market!
Join the party..I am now , after two years of waiting, getting reimbursement from the State for pulling my contaminated tank and removing the tainted soil...in my recently received letter it noted that residents can still apply for reimbursement IF contamination is found.
I think that the oil industry or somebody in NJ is making a mint from this .
One of my estimates from a So. Jersey company was close to 70,000 for removal of the
contamination...went with another company who said they were wrong ... no stabilization of the foundation was needed as the first company stated...it is a year of emotional upheaval as you try to figure out all of the testing and what is actually needed...
The whole process took about a year to complete and a year to get a letter stating that reimbursemnt under the State program was on it's way..
I think that the oil industry or somebody in NJ is making a mint from this .
One of my estimates from a So. Jersey company was close to 70,000 for removal of the
contamination...went with another company who said they were wrong ... no stabilization of the foundation was needed as the first company stated...it is a year of emotional upheaval as you try to figure out all of the testing and what is actually needed...
The whole process took about a year to complete and a year to get a letter stating that reimbursemnt under the State program was on it's way..
Sep 23, 2013 at 9:31am Edited
10-12 years ago it was the hotest real estate market in recent history. It was a seller's market and the seller could dictate what was done with the tank. The best and most acceptable route back then was decommissioning the tank.
Fast forward, in the past few years it was the worst real estate market in recent history. It was (and is) a buyer's market. As a buyer, the smartest thing to do is pass all risk of oil tank removal onto the seller. The financial penalties now are just too large to risk as a buyer.
Fast forward, in the past few years it was the worst real estate market in recent history. It was (and is) a buyer's market. As a buyer, the smartest thing to do is pass all risk of oil tank removal onto the seller. The financial penalties now are just too large to risk as a buyer.
We have a 1500 gall tank that was cleaned out and left in place that is filled wilth sand as per the NJ state code that is still the same today. It is the lawyers and realitors that are the ones that are telling the new owners not to buy a home with a tank. Our tank was pumped out of oil, very little water, the steel was thick and had no holes in it. The top was cut out, aprox. 3 ft hole and then cleasned from the inside and filled with clean sand. My husband is an inspector and the law lets you leave the tank in today, as long as you follow the state laws.
It might be hysteria, but after seeing the house on Sommer Ave in Mapelwood I would never ever buy a house with an in ground oil tank. I don't care whether it is in use, properly decommissioned, or even made of 14k gold. That house had to be lifted off of its freaking foundation. It was then moved to the back of the lot while the foundation and contaminated soil was removed. New soil was then put in. A new foundation was then built. Then the house was moved from the back of the lot and placed on the new foundation. I do not even want to think about what that must have cost. And were the people able to live in the house while it was sitting in the back yard, or did they have to live elsewhere for months on end, increasing the costs even further.
And while that house might be the most extreme example, it is most certainly not the only house I've ever seen that had contaminated soil, though most are "lucky" enough that they only have to take half the soil from under the house, so the hold up the foundation with supports and dig out from underneath the house. Probably less expensive that moving the house, but still freaking scary.
And while that house might be the most extreme example, it is most certainly not the only house I've ever seen that had contaminated soil, though most are "lucky" enough that they only have to take half the soil from under the house, so the hold up the foundation with supports and dig out from underneath the house. Probably less expensive that moving the house, but still freaking scary.
I've decided we aren't going anywhere for a long, long time. This perspective will have to change at some point.
What Metaphysician and Melech Ric went through was enough to convince me never to buy a house with an in-ground oil tank. Terrifying stuff when it all goes wrong.
Ok, so if by some bad luck I have a situation like Sommer Ave., I'm basically financially ruined? How does that make sense? How is that possibly ok? My ex wasn't foolhardy ten years ago when he agreed to accept a properly decommissioned tank - everyone did. Half of Maplewood/South Orange must have tanks, no? I am stupefied that everyone seems to think this bullet will somehow pass them by, or they will never have to move, or this is evenly remotely rational.
The worst case scenario IS incredibly rare, although clearly it does happen. It doesn't make sense, and it isn't OK, but I have no idea what people do if it happens to them. One person I know who DID encounter the worst case scenario was covered by insurance; so does anyone else know what there is to do if you have the worst happen without coverage?
Most people think the bullet will pass them by, but it's because the bullet DOES pass most homes by. We got lucky. We had no idea whether we even had a tank in the yard, so when we had to put the house on the market this past spring I had a sweep done, and I was sweating bullets the entire time while they were looking. We even went so far as to dig a hole in an area where someone got a mild reaction while sweeping with a metal detector. And like I said... we got lucky. Evidently there was never a tank on our property, which boggles my mind, but there it is.
Most people think the bullet will pass them by, but it's because the bullet DOES pass most homes by. We got lucky. We had no idea whether we even had a tank in the yard, so when we had to put the house on the market this past spring I had a sweep done, and I was sweating bullets the entire time while they were looking. We even went so far as to dig a hole in an area where someone got a mild reaction while sweeping with a metal detector. And like I said... we got lucky. Evidently there was never a tank on our property, which boggles my mind, but there it is.
It's totally irrational. But we're stuck until there is a sea change in the thinking on this. The state can't afford for that many people to potentially be financially ruined.
Is it true that the company which insured your tank while it was in use is still on the hook for any leaks? I was told that by someone with some expertise in the field, but was never able to definitively confirm. Of course, once you decomission/abandon, you can no longer purchase insurance -- leaving those of us who followed this course of action exposed to potentially massive damages with no access to insurance. Your're right, Sienna, it's a wretched situation. I too hope to be able to avoid selling until the hysteria abates.
Ours was decomissioned in the 90s, ages before we bought. We bought in 2009 and nobody said boo about it, and city folks that we are, we didn't know to ask.
I thought in Maplewood the sand fill was accepted. In SO, one must remove the tank--?
There is no law that says you have to remove the tank. However, buyers are refusing to close unless tanks are removed.
When I lived in SO, a neighbor was selling their home (circa 2006, maybe) and had to have the tank removed and then the soil remediated. It took months. And meanwhile there was a huge dirt mound and a gaping hole in their front yard. I may have even posted on MOL back then about the eyesore this dirt mound created and the potential risk to neighborhood kids.
Buyers still have a LOT of power. Not one of them is going to be willing to risk what THEY might end up having to deal with if they buy into a worst-case-scenario. Until things change, sellers are going to continue having to deal with this before putting homes on the market.
Sep 23, 2013 at 10:49am Edited
We've got people pumping oil into underground tanks that may or may not be leaking because they're afraid if they check for a leak, it could bankrupt them? Did I get that right? That can't be right.
Is that right?
Is that right?
I understand buyers not wanting a house with an in-ground tank - I don't understand laws changing, and individuals hopping this way and that to literally survive it. It is about the environment, supposedly, but it looks more like a scam to fleece homeowners. It is a game of hot potato - and I never liked playing that one.
RobB, a lot of these tanks are decommissioned, not in use. Some are still in use, but I think they are the minority at this point. I would have been terrified to think how bad the situation might get if I left it unexplored.
I have been dealing with an unknown oil tank issue for the past 10 months. I had no idea I had an oil tank until the buyers did a tank sweep and discovered it. I would rather have gone through 10 months of childbirth, its that painful and horrible.
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Having never paid attention to the oil tank issue, I am now stunned by what I'm discovering. Here's one question I can't find an answer to: when did oil tanks become a huge, across-the-board deal-breaker for home sales in NJ? And why only in NJ? There must be millions of houses across the country that have buried oil tanks. Everywhere else, people seem to agree that a properly decommissioned tank is fine. As did people in NJ until about 5 years ago.
When and what happened in NJ so that everyone now says "RUN, don't walk away, from a house with an oil tank?" I understand that no one wants to be the last one left holding the bag, but what sparked this? Have there been reports of oil slicks emerging from decommissioned tanks in Maplewood backyards or are fish and animals dropping dead because of a decommissoned tank, even if it leaked at some point in time?
Second question I can't get an anwer to: let's say the absolute worst is discovered. What do people do? Or more precisely, what do I do if I find out that I am suddenly responsible for hundreds of thousands of dollars of clean-up? Do I leave a massive hole in my driveway, stop paying my mortgage, lose all the equity in my house, go into foreclosure and am left unable to ever buy another house? And then eat cat food in my old age?
Uggh.