oil tank remediation

After a tank has been pulled and failed,are you compelled to remediate the contamination in a timely manner or can you hold off until your finances are more in order? Considering that there is no way of knowing how entensive/ expensive it may be,can the EPA make you go forward?

We waited almost a full year, with no comments from anyone. I don't think there is a limit, or at least there is no "immediate" requirement. What does your "tank puller" say?

you cant always trust the tank puller.  

sarahzm said:

you cant always trust the tank puller.  

*understatement of the year*

Could you please elaborate on "can't trust tank puller"? I need to be aware of this, since I have a tank that need to be pulled.

sarahzm said:

you cant always trust the tank puller.  

Wouldn't the township be able to answer your question?

Do you have tank insurance?  I'm guessing not.  Curious to know how this all works out.

First thing to do is contact your homeowner's insurance agent. Much, if not all of the cost will be covered, minus deductible.

Anyways, that was my experience in Millburn, 6 years ago.

Emmie:

Sarah no doubt has more experience that I do and can probably help you more with this.  I will say that there have been multiple stories from people on MOL - over many years - that would lead me to believe you should be very careful about who you hire for this work, and watch the work carefully as it is performed. 

My own recent (relatively small but illustrative)  story is this:  We had our under-the driveway, 10000-gallon tank pulled in 2007.  A scan at the time showed it was the only tank on the property.  The tank passed inspection, so no soil samples were required.  We purchased a new, natural gas boiler, so no more oil tanks.

We sold our Maplewood home earlier this year.  Naturally, the buyers required a scan to make sure there were no underground oil tanks.  The buyers hired the company to do this.  Lo and behold, we get a nice long report from the company they hired to do the scan that showed "evidence" of a large oil tank under the driveway.  They even  included a lovely drawing of the non-existent tank, outlining it as located in the exact same place where the old tank was located before we pulled it.

They wanted us to pay for a "dig" to prove there was no tank.  We refused, but pulled together our paperwork - including the invoice, receipt for payment, permit, tank inspection and also the photos we took of the pulled  tank sitting on our lawn next to the hole in our driveway - to prove that the scanner had drawn a picture of a phantom tank.   

I can only guess that the company they hired to do the scan looked up records online and saw that a tank had been placed there, but somehow did not see that we'd pulled it.  So, they pretended to scan and submitted a 10 page report to show their work.

Unfortunately for them, the buyer's realtor is a very big realtor in this area and she was livid (and mortified, I think).  I'm quite sure they lost a lot of work as a result of their fabricated report.

Formerlyjerseyjack said:

First thing to do is contact your homeowner's insurance agent. Much, if not all of the cost will be covered, minus deductible.




Anyways, that was my experience in Millburn, 6 years ago.

Homeowner policies, for the most part, no longer cover this.  I wouldn't assume this coverage without checking.

A while back, I asked a lawyer acquaintance this same question. This was his response: "If the policy was in effect [when] the contamination occurred ... there should be coverage under the old policy----IF it was an "occurrence policy."  You need to read the terms of the old policy to make sure it's not what they call a "claims made policy," i.e., where it covers only claims for damages made while the policy was in force regardless of when the damage occurred."

mjh said:

Formerlyjerseyjack said:

First thing to do is contact your homeowner's insurance agent. Much, if not all of the cost will be covered, minus deductible.




Anyways, that was my experience in Millburn, 6 years ago.

Homeowner policies, for the most part, no longer cover this.  I wouldn't assume this coverage without checking.

Homeowners insurance DOES kick in if a third party (neighbors or the ground water) has been affected by a leak  This refers only to decommissioned tanks, not active in-use tanks on which you would presumably have tank insurance. (Tank insurance isn't available for decommissioned tanks.)

georgieboy said:

After a tank has been pulled and failed,are you compelled to remediate the contamination in a timely manner or can you hold off until your finances are more in order? Considering that there is no way of knowing how entensive/ expensive it may be,can the EPA make you go forward?

Not to be facetious but if you write to New Jersey EPA (called DEP) and ask for more time you may not get an answer for a year.  

sarahzm said:

you cant always trust the tank puller.  

I didn't say to "trust", just ask. Some of them actually know what they're talking about. It can't hurt, but should not be considered the unvarnished truth.

No coverage,either 3rd party or groundwater contamination coverage.Tank was under drive and with the 1st bucket from backhoe was the unmistakable smell of fuel oil and it only got worse. Problem is the house is 3' off drive and neighbors drive is 18" over and downhill. 300 gal had been left sitting for the past 5 years and there was half doz. finger size holes. All the earmarks of a real nightmare. This isnt me but a friend I was helping out. He wants to wait. I couldnt live with that kind of time bomb hanging over my head.

I thought the hole is not allowed to be re-filled until the contaminated soil is resolved ? 

After the tank failed inspection and was loaded up, the contaminated soil was put back in hole, a sheet of plastic placed over the dirt,and then the hole was filled with gravel. This isolates the clean stone from the contaminated soil.When its time to remediate,a geologist needs to be on site taking soil samples until clean margins are reached all the way around. We are figuring on pulling 20 yards out and hoping for the best,but as we know, hope is not a strategy.Its the closeness to the house and the other neighbors property line that is chilling.

As said above, at least where it hits the other property homeowners should help.  

Sorry to hear. What a nightmare. Good luck.

As I said above, no coverage at all,either for personal,neighbors or ground water. Policies are different,if you have a tank it may pay to check limits of liability.

Everywhere else I have lived, and that's a lot of places, could care less about this stuff. Seems like a NJ thing to me. Does not matter I suppose, local laws rule.

I think it was a good thing back when there was a government assistance plan to help homeowners remediate the oil. Getting the old oil out of the ground is important. 

But the state hasn't funded that plan in a while. I don't know why not. I don't think it was a particularly large line item in the state budget but it certainly is for the individuals who have to pay for cleanup on their own property. 

emmie said:

Could you please elaborate on "can't trust tank puller"? I need to be aware of this, since I have a tank that need to be pulled.

sarahzm said:

you cant always trust the tank puller.  

on two occasions I have had tank companies pull a tank and tell a homeowner then and there that they need remediation - no need waste the time and expense to send in soil samples.  They produce a tiny jar with soil in it that smells very mildly of oil and say 8 to 10K will clean it up.    When the owner insisted on getting the soil tested it was well within allowable limits.     I've been told it's known in the trade as "pull and bull"  .    If you have a tank pulled make sure you are there when they do it and insist on  soil test and insist on getting a copy of the results.     

Several years ago I also had a client who was told she needed remediation.  The company dug out the "contamintated soil, sent in a sample and told her they needed to dig more.  She called the testing company and got her test results and - oooops -  the results had passed.

Most of the companies who do the scans are legitimate but a few years ago I had a company do a scan who claimed they found evidence of a possible tank.   They wanted $500 do "dig" to either find the tank or prove there was none.   So, my sellers paid the company.   A guy showed up with a shovel and in less than 10 minutes he dug up a metal pipe, about 3 inch diameter and about 2 ft long.   It was a complete rip off.  

mjh said:

Emmie:

Sarah no doubt has more experience that I do and can probably help you more with this.  I will say that there have been multiple stories from people on MOL - over many years - that would lead me to believe you should be very careful about who you hire for this work, and watch the work carefully as it is performed. 

My own recent (relatively small but illustrative)  story is this:  We had our under-the driveway, 10000-gallon tank pulled in 2007.  A scan at the time showed it was the only tank on the property.  The tank passed inspection, so no soil samples were required.  We purchased a new, natural gas boiler, so no more oil tanks.

We sold our Maplewood home earlier this year.  Naturally, the buyers required a scan to make sure there were no underground oil tanks.  The buyers hired the company to do this.  Lo and behold, we get a nice long report from the company they hired to do the scan that showed "evidence" of a large oil tank under the driveway.  They even  included a lovely drawing of the non-existent tank, outlining it as located in the exact same place where the old tank was located before we pulled it.

They wanted us to pay for a "dig" to prove there was no tank.  We refused, but pulled together our paperwork - including the invoice, receipt for payment, permit, tank inspection and also the photos we took of the pulled  tank sitting on our lawn next to the hole in our driveway - to prove that the scanner had drawn a picture of a phantom tank.   

I can only guess that the company they hired to do the scan looked up records online and saw that a tank had been placed there, but somehow did not see that we'd pulled it.  So, they pretended to scan and submitted a 10 page report to show their work.

Unfortunately for them, the buyer's realtor is a very big realtor in this area and she was livid (and mortified, I think).  I'm quite sure they lost a lot of work as a result of their fabricated report.

The really terrible part: After being robbed of $500, your sellers were probably relieved. Totally broken system.

sarahzm said:

Most of the companies who do the scans are legitimate but a few years ago I had a company do a scan who claimed they found evidence of a possible tank.   They wanted $500 do "dig" to either find the tank or prove there was none.   So, my sellers paid the company.   A guy showed up with a shovel and in less than 10 minutes he dug up a metal pipe, about 3 inch diameter and about 2 ft long.   It was a complete rip off.   

I'm curious as to why the homeowner didn't just dig himself/herself to look for the tank. It would have taken an 1/2 hour at the most. Need to call BS on these ripoff artists.

Because the buyer would have never believed it and I don't blame them. 

"Yep, dug up a pipe but no tank. All clear!"

RobB said:

Because the buyer would have never believed it and I don't blame them. 

"Yep, dug up a pipe but no tank. All clear!"

Yes, you have to have a report from a (presumably neutral & unaffiliated) 3rd party professional.

My most important point in my post is this: Your friend and your friend's neighbor may not have homeowner's insurance for this but previous owners of the home may have. The experts will determine how long they think the tank was leaking. If it was leaking before your friend moved into the house, the insurance policies of previous home owners can be examined to see if a underground tank was covered by their insurance. Further explanation below:

georgieboy, I am sorry but it does seem from my experience that your friend is facing a potential financial nightmare. As I have mentioned before, we were fortunate that our oil tank remediation was covered by two kinds of insurance, homeowners and tank. It cost 569K dollars. The remediation took one year. 

The OP's scenario is much like ours. Under the driveway, and very close to two houses. I don't remember, is it close to the neighbor's house or the neighbor's property line? One of the biggest expenses involved was underground cement terracing that was built to stabilize the houses' foundation while the dirt was removed 18 feet down.

After it was determined that our oil tank had likely been leaking for thirty years, (we lived their for 18 years), our insurance company went after the insurance company of the previous owner. There was a settlement. Our insurance company is now suing the oil company that delivered oil company to us. Their claim is that the company should have known that the oil was leaking based on temperature and usage history. 

Georgieboy, was your friend's tank, an active tank? I hope not. There are a lot of angles to handling this. I wish your friend the best of luck in dealing with it. I know people who are not moving because they don't want to discover they have a tank because they can't afford to deal with it if they do. 

This needs to be dealt with at the state level. It is not a local issue. It is a NJ issue. Do I think it's a scam? Follow the money. Who's moving the contaminated dirt? Where is it going? Do the people involved have ties to any businesses with a criminal history?

Georgieboy, your story sounds just like ours. After remediation, which was expensive, we're waiting for our NFA letter. We hired Mike Waters to take care of ours. Seven finger sized holes in our tank so you win... That field sensor they use to test the soil needed sedatives when it was poked in our soil.

No insurance coverage whatsoever from State Farm but we bought here in 2007 and no one else would even touch the place with an underground tank. It's done now though.